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betfair bonus confiscation

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Froggo, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. Froggo

    Froggo Dormant account

    Several weeks ago, I joined the betfair sportsbook. I claimed the casino singup bonus and in a following week the cleensweep bonus. I then turned my initial deposit of 50 in outstanding 500(including bonuses) I felt that I ran out of luck so I requested withdrawal of whole balance.

    I was then asked to send a few scanned documents. Afted the verification process was completed, I recieved following email:

    > Dear Mr. Slivka,
    > Thank you for replying back to us. I confirm to have received the requested
    > documents. Your account is now active. Although I must give you notice that due
    > to promotional abuse a bonus payout has been deducted from your balance.
    > Kind Regards
    > Verification Team
    > This email is not visible to you.
    > You must register/login in order to see the link.

    It seems they stripped me of the 200 bonus because I won. Why do they offer the bonuses if they remove the bonus from your account anyway? And what is the bonus abuse? I sent them email saying that they have probably made a mistake.

    This is what I recieved:

    > Dear Jan,
    > Please be advised that following an investigation into your activity in the
    > Betfair Casino, we have concluded that your bets were carried out with the
    > express purpose of abusing the bonus offered.
    > This is in accordance to the bonus terms and conditions which stats that
    > "Betfair also reserves the right not to pay any bonus to customers that it
    > suspects to be abusing this promotion."
    > Please be advised that you balance reflects your activity regarding your
    > deposits and game play, minus the bonus amount.
    > Kind Regards

    This is just sick. I thought betfair is a reputable company.
  2. RedArmy

    RedArmy Dormant account


    Hi Jan,

    I am sorry to hear about your troubles. Could you please follow this up with me?

    I need a full breakdown of the incident emailed to me.

    Cheers, :thumbsup:

    3 people like this.
  3. Froggo

    Froggo Dormant account

    I have just sent you all the relevant detail by email.
  4. tofu23

    tofu23 Banned User

    A very quick response Red Army. Hope you can clear this sort of nonsense up just as quickly. Bet Fair are too good to go down this road.

  5. Froggo

    Froggo Dormant account

    RedArmy, have you recieved my email?
  6. RedArmy

    RedArmy Dormant account

    Got it thanks. Will deal with this now.

    RedArmy :cool:
  7. Froggo

    Froggo Dormant account

    Has there been any progress?
  8. Froggo

    Froggo Dormant account

    I have been reading the other thread about betfair casinos and I decided to give you little more information about MY case.

    Firstly I used no bot. I though that only casino with bot are microgaming casinos, there is no autoplay option on chartwell, right?

    Secondly my bet varied from 5 to 50 chips and my playtime never exceed one hour.
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    According to this post it sounds like we can expect RedArmy (the rep) back on the scene soon.
  10. lauram

    lauram Dormant account

    Ok I know this is going to sound like a dumb blonde question. (yes im blonde)
    How do you use a bot in a casino. Wouldnt that casino pick it up right away that your using one. Just like if i log into my casino here and yes ive done this many times over and driven to my cottage and logged on it boots me off at home.
    So wouldnt it just boot the bot out.
    that sounded funny boot the bot out new slot idea. lol
  11. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    MG Casinos hand you the 'bot' on a silver platter and beg you to play with it on their games.

    Other SW Casinos (if not all) give you a 'bot' such as a Slots auto play.

    A BJ 'bot' needs to reference a strategy card so requires a little more intuition.

    Apart from the LIVE Casinos ALL of the other online Casinos use a 'bot' to play the dealers cards. So 'bot' play is positively common place online.

    A Casino may point to your 7 hours of studious and perfect BJ play at $1 per hand and declare strong circumstantial evidence of mechanical finger-prints.

    There is speculation within online Poker community that Casinos can detect and 'see' the bot present on your desk-top. The technical aspect of this remains beyond moi.

    If my competitor uses a 'bot' then I am more inclined to use a 'bot' if winning is a principle objective. Since ALL online Casinos use a 'bot' to assist their play then I am inclined to use a 'bot' whenever, wherever and however I can since winning for me remains a priority.

    But remember, a 'bot' can not sprinkle fairy dust in spite of claims to the contrary by various 'bot' playing online Casinos.

    2 people like this.
  12. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Do casinos take screenshots of your desktop?

    Not specifically related to bots but I have heard that casino softwares can take screenshots of your desktop (of course without telling you) in the same manner as you can take screenshots. Does anybody know if this is true or a legend?
  13. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    I would say that was illegal and definately an invasion of privacy. People could have anything on their desktop and its not open for casinos to take pictures. I better go do the dishes incase they have a probe in my kitchen
  14. frafi

    frafi Full Member

    If the casino is downloaded and installed than they have a windows api function to do a screenshot.

    To prevent this the bot could run as a windows process.
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    The software could also check for known bots running as tasks, so if they know of a specific Chartwell Blackjack bot, they look for it running in the task list. Chartwell, however, is a non-download casino, so I am wondering how they manage to PROVE that a bot application is running the game, and not the player.

    The only casino bot I am currently aware of is one for 888.com, which would also work on it's white labels, such as Reef Club and Lucky Ace, and plays their Blackjack. It is of considerable use in the regular Blackjack tournaments, although can obviously be used to "abuse" their sign-up boni as well.
    If others have been developed, they are probably "word of mouth" on the bonus whoring websites, not wanting to draw too much attention to their existence until those in the know have filled their wallets with the early profits. They will then be flogged to the masses to squeeze every last penny from them.

    If Chartwell cannot PROVE a bot was used in this case, they should pay up.
    What is interesting is that this argument has developed into one about bots, and seems to miss this crucial element of the story (even if from another player in another post):-

    This implies the good old fashioned strategy for clearing a 100% bonus on Blackjack.

    1) Bet entire balance on first bet (492), and win.
    2) Repeat 1) but with whole 984 - win again.
    3) Switch to the grind strategy to clear WR (3 bets mentioned)
    4) Get a little impatient and fire off a few bigger bets, perhaps up to 100

    It is highly likely this is what got security interested in these accounts, and I am wondering why they decided to use the "bot accusation" rather than plain old "promotional abuse" as they could have done with their pretty wide ranging term that seems to cover any strategy designed to maximise winnings, rather than lengthen play on a variety of games.
  16. Komodo

    Komodo Dormant account

    Illegal or not, they still do it. Almost any casino and poker site nowadays is full of spyware.
  17. Komodo

    Komodo Dormant account

    Im no BJ expert, but to bet entire balance in BJ where you migth need to double or split seems just retarded to me.
  18. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    I think you're right, and specifically, I suspect BetFair in the 'bot' case used similar technology to confidently declare an offending 'bot' had breached their dubious 'bot' pohibition T+Cs.

    The problem emerging for BetFair is the prospect of fronting up to the Maltese LGA and explaining their modus operandi. If it is found that BetFair have illegally and unlawfully accessed the players pc then the confiscation of the bonus becomes a trifle inconsequential in the broader scheme of things.

    My guess is if affected players persist with a complaint to the Maltese LGA then I believe they will prevail long before a full evidential hearing sees the light of day. BetFair won't front the LGA with a flimsy play log history (even if they could produce a play log history) and I can't imagine them declaring "we use spy-ware on every players pc."

  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    True, but the aim of the strategy is to capitalise on a bonus, not achieve optimum strategy for the hand in play. A double option would be ignored, but a bad deal that would normally be an obvious split would have to be played without one, and this could well change a good winning chance into a losing one. This would be the case where a split can be played against a shaky dealer up card, but not splitting meant having to hit on a hard hand such as a 12 or 14, with the danger of getting a high card and busting. The leverage supplied long term by the bonus money outweighs the additional risk due to forced non-optimal strategy, but not the risk that this is so "bleedin obvious" to the casino risk department that they are likely to go looking for reasons not to pay if simple "bonus abuse" is not enough - hence the "bot" excuse is presented as additional evidence.

    If Betfair have some kind of bot seeking software running, someone will one day find it, and they will be busted for it. With Chartwell being a non-download casino, they can't hide any bot seeking software in the casino client, and it should be easier to find.

    I suspect their technology is nothing more than looking at hand histories, which means they have to be lying when they tell players under suspicion (or who suspect the casino of cheating) that it is not possible to get hold of such hand histories.
  20. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    Well, here's a copy then of the lie:

    "Dear XXX,

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    Further to your query below, please be advised that
    we cannot send you your game histories in the

    Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any
    further enquiries.

    Kind regards,

    Josef Baldacchino

    Betfair helpdesk

    This is utterly unacceptable. The software cheated the player.

    On the player attempting to gather evidence to have the play logs reviewed by an independent auditor, BetFair have closed up shop.

    Any reasonable and objective thinking person would have to entertain the view that BetFair:

    1. have indeed got the play logs

    2. have inspected the play logs and know something is amiss

    3. are battering down the hatches hoping all this will go away (soon).

    This is a disgraceful chapter in BetFair history from a former impeccable and distinguished gaming establishment of the highest order.

    Still no sign of Red Army. I wonder why.


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