Betfair Account Closed - large balance

[dealer wins]

Im sorry to say I agree with the other posters, you will at best get your deposits back.

Betfair are scum of the earth, they F'ed my over for £9k a few years back when I had done nothing wrong and they set up dual markets on darts in error. I DMed them and they replied feel free to use either market, then voided all my winning bets later that evening.

I took it all the way to the regulator, and they sided with BF even after they admitted my DMs were legit.

 

[cdl2002]

Im sorry to say I agree with the other posters, you will at best get your deposits back.

Betfair are scum of the earth, they F'ed my over for £9k a few years back when I had done nothing wrong and they set up dual markets on darts in error. I DMed them and they replied feel free to use either market, then voided all my winning bets later that evening.

I took it all the way to the regulator, and they sided with BF even after they admitted my DMs were legit.

yeah wouldn't surprise me but surprised it's 3 weeks in and not sorted?

 

[cdl2002]

yeah wouldn't surprise me but surprised it's 3 weeks in and not sorted?

Morning All,

Another week has come and gone contacted today again said no update... I asked re internal complaints procedure and was told they will only provide the same information...

Just a bit frustrating... any suggestions on what to do next?

 

[cdl2002]

Good evening,

Still no communication from them on this... any thoughts on the next steps
Please?

 

[The Dude]

I was going to suggest for you to submit a complaint here, but since it's Betfair they will give us a "speak to the hand" move - we've been here before. They are about as useless as a houseplant when it comes to solving problems.

Hopefully @maxd can give you some input on this. I am not sure who Betfair's ADR is (probably IBAS), and I'm not sure if they'd be able ot help or not.

 

[maxd]

@cdl2002 , I wish I had something constructive to add but I'm afraid what Bryan has said above is pretty much the full story: Betfair is big enough that they can and will totally ignore anyone that isn't in a position to make it painful for them to do otherwise. That said, I see four options here, none of them a guarantee of any sort:

1. Post your case in any and all social media. This __may__ prompt BF to settle your issue with you simply in order to shut you up. Chances of success: marginal, and you may simply piss them off such that they dig in their heels and NEVER pay you a damn thing just out of spite.

2. File a complaint with us via the PAB process. There is a slim chance that receiving the complaint through us will prompt them to contact you directly to settle the matter. Chances of success: pretty much zero, but hey, it's free!

3. Follow the complaints procedure given in BF's Terms TO THE LETTER, every single step right through to the end. Chances of success : marginal, but it's the only process they WILL respect and abide by.

4. A much less promising approach which I will detail in a Private Message to you.

That's about as much encouragement as I can offer, sorry to say.

- Max

 

[ollygarch]

Betfair are no different from other on line sites with draconian powers written into their T&Cs. But those can only be applied if they are applied reasonably. Otherwise there are routes available to challenge them. Unfortunately by using someone else's card I doubt you would win this one. If you can prove this person owed you money and can document that the deposit was their way of paying you back then you do at least have an argument to work with.

 

[cdl2002]

It's now two months since the withdrawal was requested why would it take as long as this?

 

[jasonuk]

It's now two months since the withdrawal was requested why would it take as long as this?

Noting that an internal escalation (before ADR) would be capped at two months, I am surprised they are taking this long as well. It is possible they are giving you the "talk to the hand" treatment at this point - knowing that you have few other viable alternatives.

In regards the third path above, it's a tough one because if they refuse to accept your complaint / internal escalation then it won't be reviewed by a higher authority. You'd also want that deadlock letter for any ADR case, even though they are likely to side with Betfair on such a dispute.

If they steadfast refuse to escalate, you can come from the other direction and people have suggested "email the CEO" before (who I believe is still Peter Jackson). You should at least get a real person at a senior level looking at it and giving you an answer... although if you do, brace yourself for the likely outcomes that you are either getting your deposit back, or you are getting nothing at all.

If you can prove this person owed you money and can document that the deposit was their way of paying you back then you do at least have an argument to work with.

That would apply if the third party had sent him money, and then deposited said money with his own card. It would still be open to scrutiny, and Betfair may come to the same decision - but onwards paths (such as ADR or court) may have had more leniency because it's Betfair's opinion rather than a statement of fact.

In this case, it's a straight violation - so there's no such angle to work with.

 

[cdl2002]

Evening All,

Finally a response please see below.... any thoughts?

 

[scott dickson]

It's an unfortunate outcome but one we probably expected since you used a third person's card.

Probably not what you wanted to hear though.

 

[cdl2002]

Indeed..... but I think this opens a potential claim elsewhere... they have effectively refunded all the initial deposits....

A friend in a similar situation had account closed and betfair accepted £20k of bets and then closed account / they never refunded the losing bets...

Surely can't have it both ways?

 

[johnnymcc1966]

So they are saying you opened multiple accounts or used a payment method in somebody elses's name are they? Did you ever do matched betting or arbing at any time?

 

[jasonuk]

No surprises really - especially as the clauses mentioned (11.1, 11.2.1 and 13.5.2) were all highlighted as possible candidates in the discussion seven weeks ago.

Indeed..... but I think this opens a potential claim elsewhere... they have effectively refunded all the initial deposits....

A friend in a similar situation had account closed and betfair accepted £20k of bets and then closed account / they never refunded the losing bets...

Surely can't have it both ways?

Each instance will be on a case by case basis, and the full range of options will be available to Betfair (or any other operator) depending on those specific circumstances - whether that be paying the full balance, paying a subset of the balance, returning deposits or confiscating everything.

Given the amount of payment fraud in recent years (particularly around self-exclusion), operators have had to be extremely careful about how they handle such complaints - done in a way that'll stand up in court, but without giving an open goal to fraudsters.

So in this case, they would be trading off the terms and conditions against CDD/AML regulations - and in this case they decided the safest option would be to return the deposits.

They do close the letter mentioning you can take it to ADR. As we mentioned last month, ADR isn't binding on Betfair for a dispute of that size, and while it would feed into any future legal action (beyond the scope of this forum) - I would anticipate your chance of success is slim to none.

So they are saying you opened multiple accounts or used a payment method in somebody elses's name are they? Did you ever do matched betting or arbing at any time?

The opening post summed it up pretty succinctly, they deposited using a third party card. Pretty much game over after that point.

 

[scott dickson]

A friend in a similar situation had account closed and betfair accepted £20k of bets and then closed account / they never refunded the losing bets...

As Jason has already mentioned it would be case by case. so you could think well I got deposits back and they never so there must be more to your case.

In reality though it's clearly stated in the T+Cs so I'm sure any regulating body that would look at you're case would tend to agree with the casino.
( Just my opinion though. )

I don't suppose there's any chance that this is the same friend whose card you used to deposit on your account? If so then you should consider yourself lucky that your getting the deposits back.

 

[cdl2002]

No to avoid any confusion this is a totally seperate subject! Nothing linked or connected in anyway...

Reality was I knew this was coming so not surprised or shocked in anyway.... just seems to be that if the deposit used a 3rd party card and lost then betfair wins and makes no comment and does not refund and likewise use a 3rd party card deposit and win they refund deposit and confiscate losses....

Surely you would expect one standard... maybe it's the frustration I don't know just seems always favours one angle in different situations

Genuinely guys every bit of advice and view points I have taken onboard since the beginning and appreciate the time you have all taken to respond...

 

[scott dickson]

I'm not sure how it would work if the roles were reversed I would like to think if you asked them they might close the account and refund deposits but I am probably wrong about that.

But the decision to close your account and refund deposits probably wasn't an easy one for betfair for them to do this they are basically saying that if you did take this further and maybe end up taking them to court then they are 100% sure they would win this case. If they thought they would lose I think you might of had a different outcome.

 

[jasonuk]

just seems to be that if the deposit used a 3rd party card and lost then betfair wins and makes no comment and does not refund and likewise use a 3rd party card deposit and win they refund deposit and confiscate losses....

Yup, it is intentionally brutal because it causes headaches for the operator as well - particularly around responsible gambling, self-exclusion and AML. They incur unnecessary costs by doing the investigation, and in some cases neither party will get the money (in which case it is forfeit to charity).

Genuinely guys every bit of advice and view points I have taken onboard since the beginning and appreciate the time you have all taken to respond...

No worries, sorry it wasn't a better outcome for you.

I'm not sure how it would work if the roles were reversed I would like to think if you asked them they might close the account and refund deposits but I am probably wrong about that.

This is pretty much how the self-exclusion fraud worked, because it only functions correctly if all transactions can be reversed. Dishonest players are predictably unwilling to comply with such requests, which introduces a freeroll against the casino.

The fraudsters cottoned on to this, and would start mentioning the magical words for accounts that lost, while withdrawing from accounts that won. Annoyingly, that causes a problem for the genuine cases because they now lose out because of the fraudsters.

But the decision to close your account and refund deposits probably wasn't an easy one for betfair for them to do this they are basically saying that if you did take this further and maybe end up taking them to court then they are 100% sure they would win this case. If they thought they would lose I think you might of had a different outcome.

Also the cost of ADR is borne by Betfair, as would their share of any court case - so paying off something that might be a borderline case (because the funds haven't been lost) could be seen as a better business decision than fighting it.

Also, wouldn't be the first wacky rulings we've seen from the courts in recent years... best for them to leave that untested!