Roguish Betcave refuses to pay on unsolid grounds!

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
I just wanted to pesent my current situation with betcave casino, one of the newer rival whitelabels. I never made any deposit in this casino just played some no deposit chips which they! always send me via email.

Septemeber the 16th of this month i got another freeby from them, i copy/paste the first line of their email here: We noticed you created an account with us but have never deposited. To get you in the gaming mood we've given you a $10 Free Chip.

ok so far so good, i managed the 500€ wagering requirement,made my verificatiopnal deposit and requested 75€ cashout, 50€ was winnings (the max)

so my withdrawal was pending and i never heard any word, no emails concerning my verification etc.

yesterday i went to livechat and had the agent nathan in the line, i asked about the status of my wd. he checked, and all of a sudden he reversed my wd and told me it was denied by management. reason: i have a history of claiming nd chips. no further explanation. of course i have a history of claiming nd chips, they already said it themselves in the email they send me, as you never! deposited here is a 10€ free-chip, kind of paradox arguments they use.

anyway, the one who manually reversed my cashpout was the livechat agent nathan, he did it as we spoke! tells alot about the rival structures. i made him aware i will take this issue to 3rd parties if they continue to refuse sending me any written explanation etc. nathan told me managent will get in touch but they have never tried yet.

i find this whole issue kind of unprofessional and unfair. they can bonus-ban me of course if they want, but first have to pay my legimate winnings.

I hope i can find any rival representative or help here, it is like betcave has no clear line/management , i claimed too many chips which i never asked for and if i win and also make a verify deposit they just decide not to pay just because i claimed nd bonuses before, this is not forbidden in their terms..no trust at all. i play rival for some years now and never ever made such an experience! and i wont accept this!


looking forward for your comments.


cheers

coxwel
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
I think CSR should have notified you first that he's going to cancel you w/d or AT LEAST tell you that he will notify management about your situation. I also can assume that the manager was standing behind while you were talking and told him to reverse it. But anyway, they must have sent you an email with explanations. IMO.

Please, keep us posted about the situation.
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
As the email stated "We noticed you created an account with us but have never deposited. To get you in the gaming mood we've given you a $10 Free Chip" then they should pay. They are using the free chip as bait to get you to deposit and the risk they take is you will win. If they don't like the risk then they shouldn't play the game.

Poor.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
looking forward for your comments.
The Bet Cave affiliate manager has always been very responsive to any queries I have sent his way, so if you would like to PM me your UserName at the casino, I will ask him to look into this for you.

I will also immediately point him to this thread - but I don't think he is a CM member, so he might not reply here.

KK
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
As the email stated "We noticed you created an account with us but have never deposited. To get you in the gaming mood we've given you a $10 Free Chip" then they should pay. They are using the free chip as bait to get you to deposit and the risk they take is you will win. If they don't like the risk then they shouldn't play the game.

Poor.

this is exactly my point. the bonus was given for the reason i never deposited yet. other rivals bonus banned me straight or paid winnings and then banned me. i know their automatic banning and also discussed this here often. but what betcave does is just not right and very unprofessional.

no single email, and if i wouldnt have come to livechat my wd would still be pending. this or these operator(s) nathan which is mostly there for all whitelabels just decided to reverse it as we spoke, this is the most strange thing. so i assume hes operator, manager etc. in one person. as i asked about this he tried to avoid an answer.

i have notified kk and will post an update once i hear from betcave, finally.


EDIT: thanks to kk who contacted the betcave affmanager for me , hope to have an update here soon.



cheers

coxwel
 
Last edited:

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
Good News!

Seems like bringing the case to public attention made betcave rethinking, finally. Just received the following email from support:

Hi **

My name is Dave Boulette, I'm the manager at Betcave. This issue was never
brought to my attention until now. Sorry about the delay in responding. I
have no clue why your winnings were voided, I don't see any sign you broke
any terms. I credited your account with 50 000 comp points which you can
redeem for your missing winnings.


Ok so he has no clue why :confused:, pretty low explanation.
Anyway i now redeemed my comps and requested another wd. But a strange feeling is left somehow as how quick this all changed. As first my wd was denied livechat said it was clearly ordered!! by management, this management now tells me it never came to its attention??

Will let you know here once its been paid.


Thank you all very much for your support, esspecially kk for his effort, this forum and its community are a great support!


cheers

coxwel
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
As usual kudos to KK. He has a knack of making things click. As for the casino while I appreciate their action in giving you the comps which in essence means you can cash out right away its pretty lame of them to say they didnt know the reason for the denial. My guess is that they couldnt find an excuse so better say nothing at all.

Next time, maybe you could try restoring your previous avi if you have an issue with Betcave. The caped crusader works wonders.
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
Is Betcave related to Supreme Play? If so, their CS rep Nathan sometimes has a chip on his shoulder in my experience. Welp, either way I am glad you got it taken care of.
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
Next time, maybe you could try restoring your previous avi if you have an issue with Betcave. The caped crusader works wonders.

what do you mean exactly with restoring your previous avi?

yes its pretty obvious they only reacted quick because of my post here and i also let steve russo of gg contacting them. no 24 hours later my issue was resolved..hmm.

anyway iam happy this is now resolved, once they pay i will update the title accordingly.

but the email from management also came from the normal support@betcave adress, whcih never answered any single email before. so its clear they tried to ignore the issue, just sad for the many players who dont know of this forum or other channels for support.


cheers

coxwel
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
Werent you the one using batman as your avi? The casino will respect you when you enter their betcave.

ah nice one :rolleyes:, just nearly forgot. yes in my first weeks of membership i had the batman avatar.

yeah the betcave....:D


cheers

coxwel
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
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MM
Joined
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Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Is Betcave related to Supreme Play? If so, their CS rep Nathan sometimes has a chip on his shoulder in my experience. Welp, either way I am glad you got it taken care of.
No relationship at all - except they are both Rival white labels.
Supreme Play is the "sister" casino to 21Grand - both in the pit here and on my blacklist for ripping off a player. :(
Because they are white labels they DO share the same Rival central live chat, though I have reason to hope this will be changing for the better shortly... ;)

KK
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Rival has consistently shown they don't care about their players.

Anyone who plays there now deserves what they get.

I wouldnt say players deserve that. As far as we can, we try to remind players, especially newbies of the pitfalls that await them. Some are not vigilant until they actually encounter difficulties. Honestly, who hasnt met obstacles playing at online casinos. They might have previous good experience at some Rivals and didnt expect them to turn bad and will not heed advice to the contrary.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
I wouldnt say players deserve that. As far as we can, we try to remind players, especially newbies of the pitfalls that await them. Some are not vigilant until they actually encounter difficulties. Honestly, who hasnt met obstacles playing at online casinos. They might have previous good experience at some Rivals and didnt expect them to turn bad and will not heed advice to the contrary.

Newbees who haven't read the forums before etc....fair enough.

Anyone who has been reading the forums or who has been a member for a while.....deserves it i.e. they have not been doing their homework.
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
Nobody, including forum members, deserves to be ripped off. Whether you are new or have been playing since the 70's ;) there is no reason one should think that someone deserves what they get when they play at what is supposed to be a legit casino. They learned the hard way but were ultimately paid so it's a happy ending. Now, if it were me would I play there again? Nope, but if I did surely I don't deserve to be treated like shit.
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
Rival has consistently shown they don't care about their players.

Anyone who plays there now deserves what they get.

yes for some rivals this might be right. but in my experience i never had any issue with any rival before, so i had kind of left trust allthough iam aware of some difficulties they have.

anyway, i also think nobody deserves to be ripped off by any kind of casino, just sad there are casinos out there which try to rip people off and often they can! without anything they have to fear of.

but if smb keeps depositing @ fe. virtual group outfits with knowing their reputation i would maybe agree with you.;)


cheers

coxwel
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This has now "poisoned" the practice of using a verification deposit to check a player out. It seems the decision to confiscate was held off till they at least had a small amount of the OPs real money, whereas they should have made the decision BEFORE asking for a verification deposit. Now players are going to feel that asking for a verification deposit may be a trick to scam them out of a small amount of money as "revenge" for winning on a free chip, winnings that they never intended to pay anyway.

Players are already increasingly reluctant to make these verification deposits because they have not yet verified the CASINO in terms of their willingness to honour their first withdrawal. As a player, I feel much better having passed the hurdle of getting my first withdrawal from a casino, and THIS is the point where I consider "upping my game" by making further, and often larger, deposits.
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
Players are already increasingly reluctant to make these verification deposits because they have not yet verified the CASINO in terms of their willingness to honour their first withdrawal. As a player, I feel much better having passed the hurdle of getting my first withdrawal from a casino, and THIS is the point where I consider "upping my game" by making further, and often larger, deposits.

Indeed. Rival is the nearly the only brand i came across where its considered normal one has to! make a verificational deposit if winning on a freechip. I am also not sure what reasons they may have, identity etc. can be also checked without any deposit, only logical thing would be they need a verified payment method to pay you back . As in past it all went fine i had no worries in making my verificational dep. As they first seized my winnings i still had my deposit left, free to withdraw.
But for me its also like if a casino is unwilling or unable to pay me on a freechip, i would also never deposit again, or even large. The first withdrawal is most important, if this goes wrong i run as fast as i can as soon as i am paid off. For anyone running a business it should be clear how to treat customers right, just a pitty some casinos even insist on crazy things like a few days pending period where nothing happens etc.

If it becomes too obvious for players why a casino has certain rules or uses tricks in some way they create more damage for their business as by paying fast and beeing straight,imo.


cheers

coxwel
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
BAD NEWS!!

UPDATE

As written in my last "good news" post the betcave manager dave insisted personally in my case and credited me with comps for my voided winnings. sep the 24th i could request my wd again.

They were delaying this payment since then, all emails of me regarding the dela were left unanswered just one time dave their manager replied that he woukld send it to me right away, but these things are done by rival so he has no power about it, of course :what::confused:

Today i thought i fall off my chair, they REVERSED it again, voiding my winnings just leaving my deposit in the account.

So from now on i cannot believe any word they say. Even their amnager seems to give me the runaround, which admitted! before they were totally wrong!

Iam not willing to accept such a rogue behaviour and hope they will finally become clear on their 3rd try. But i guess they have a long list of excuses, mostly they just say its handled by rival, so oops sorry. This is far from professional and acceptable.

Just be warned everybody, betcave is NOT to trust in any way!!

Ill keep you posted..


cheers

coxwel
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
This is despicable behavior on the casino's part.

Please PM Kasino King (who posted in this thread with an offer to help) and see if he can get this clarified for you. And please keep that email from the casino manager! You may need the 'ammo'.

Good luck!
 

coxwel

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Location
germany
This is despicable behavior on the casino's part.

Please PM Kasino King (who posted in this thread with an offer to help) and see if he can get this clarified for you. And please keep that email from the casino manager! You may need the 'ammo'.

Good luck!

thx, i have already pointed kk to the situation and he´s doing his best to sort it :thumbsup: , but it seems the problem behind this is rival (accounting) itself.

for the email adress, the management reply came from the normal support@ adress, which also made me wonder... :what:


cheers

coxwel
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
It goes to show who REALLY runs these casinos. The supposed manager seems to have absolutely NO power to overrule the automated decisions made by Rival. It seems Rival are repeatedly "slapping down" this so called "manager" for trying to get this player paid. The situation seems to be getting WORSE.

With so little power in the hands of the casino management, no amount of dealing with them is going to make a difference. It is Rival themselves that need to be dealt with in such circumstances. This is white labelling at it's worst.

KK - do you ever feel you are "flogging a dead horse" with these Rival white label issues?

Are there still any truly independent Rival casinos left now that Sloto has moved to RTG? (I know of only one, Desert Nights, sister to Sloto).
 
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