Tips BetAt Visa Debit Deposits

[miso]

Obviously not a complaint

I have made a couple of deposits at BetAt with my debit card, and I noticed that
even though it went through no problem, my bank account wasn`t instantly debited.

The deposits show in my pending transactions, but the balance remains the same.
It is only debited 2-3 bus. days later.

That`s no problem at all, just wanted to share.

 

[sigothx1]

Hmm, very weird indeed. Ive made 10+ deposits there and the money is always taken instantly, i think ill pm this thread to igor as there is a potential here for fraud, you could make a massive deposit play £20 spins and if you lost, you just withdraw all the money out of your account or close the account ect, Are you sure the money is not taken? online banking can be notoriously slow.

 

[Dinahnana]

Op it could be the overall balance remains the same until the transactions clear but your actual available balance should be less the pending balance.

 

[psmith2020]

Hmm, very weird indeed. Ive made 10+ deposits there and the money is always taken instantly, i think ill pm this thread to igor as there is a potential here for fraud, you could make a massive deposit play £20 spins and if you lost, you just withdraw all the money out of your account or close the account ect, Are you sure the money is not taken? online banking can be notoriously slow.

some debit cards dont take the money out straight away but they have to honour it anyway

you can get the same thing by buying a train ticket on the train and paying with a debit card

 

[miso]

Op it could be the overall balance remains the same until the transactions clear but your actual available balance should be less the pending balance.

No, the money is available. I know because I am sending money to builders that are restoring old house we bought, every two weeks,
and basically I zeroed my balance. Then the BetAt deposit debited and it send me into overdraft (which I am not signed for).
That`s how I noticed that the money debited later.

 

[miso]

Hmm, very weird indeed. Ive made 10+ deposits there and the money is always taken instantly, i think ill pm this thread to igor as there is a potential here for fraud, you could make a massive deposit play £20 spins and if you lost, you just withdraw all the money out of your account or close the account ect, Are you sure the money is not taken? online banking can be notoriously slow.

Well, I am not sure about the fraud potential, because the money will be debited anyway, no matter how much you deposit.
It won`t let you deposit more than you have in your account, however you can do it over and over again. I don`t see a point
in doing that, because soon you`ll be faced with a massive overdraft. And bank won`t let you close account in the negative.

One thing, that I need to note, is that I make a lot of transactions online and pay mostly by card, and I`ve been debited with delay
by Tesco or Homebase, for example.

 

[Igor82]

I'll check with the payment provider - really odd. When you deposit, we tend to authorize (secure) immediately & process after a day or so. So you should have those funds blocked off there & then.

It could be the bank too; I personally have a debit/credit card with 3 banks, two work fine, but the third will let me purchase the amount available on my balance time and time again. So, if I have say 500 free, I can use a POS machine to buy 500 again and again for 3-4 days until bank puts me 3k in minus. This actually happened & it got me fuming.. The whole point is to allocate funds and ensure you cannot overspend.

I'll look into this with detail & reach out via PM

 

[miso]

I'll check with the payment provider - really odd. When you deposit, we tend to authorize (secure) immediately & process after a day or so. So you should have those funds blocked off there & then.

It could be the bank too; I personally have a debit/credit card with 3 banks, two work fine, but the third will let me purchase the amount available on my balance time and time again. So, if I have say 500 free, I can use a POS machine to buy 500 again and again for 3-4 days until bank puts me 3k in minus. This actually happened & it got me fuming.. The whole point is to allocate funds and ensure you cannot overspend.

I'll look into this with detail & reach out via PM

That was the "Tip" part of this thread

Thanks for the reply Igor, and yes, I think it`s the bank.

 

[wobble33]

That was the "Tip" part of this thread

Thanks for the reply Igor, and yes, I think it`s the bank.

I deposited last night at BETAT use my visa debit card too. do you use verify by visa? I have looked in my bank for pending transactions, and my BETAT is their....

01 Mar 14 WWW.BET-AT.EU/ MALTA MT xxxx Card Not Present 50.00

 

[miso]

I deposited last night at BETAT use my visa debit card too. do you use verify by visa? I have looked in my bank for pending transactions, and my BETAT is their....

01 Mar 14 WWW.BET-AT.EU/ MALTA MT xxxx Card Not Present 50.00

Yes, I use Verified by Visa.

Btw this is the deposit I have made

"2014-02-15 05:12:47","XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX",CreditCard,Deposit,Accepted,€25

And this online banking



Just noticed that deposit was on Saturday, showed up on Monday. That might have something to do with it, but not sure

 

[asadzareef89]

I had a problem with betat via debit card way back as when i'd deposit using debit card it'd instantly send 2 payments of same amount in the pending but after 5 days when they didnt claim the second transaction it would come back

Hence the reason for me to open skrill to avoid all the confusion of pending payments and all that

 

[paul7388]

you have to watch what you do when paying with debit card ,say ive £100 in my bank account and I use it to pay with debit card my bank balance then shows zero, but as it was a debit card then for some reason quite often the amount will show back up in bank account where I could withdraw it, not all the time but quite often , then next day once the debit transaction finalises its back out of account, just means that I could respend the money but next day my account will be overdrawn, think same happens with most banks

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'll check with the payment provider - really odd. When you deposit, we tend to authorize (secure) immediately & process after a day or so. So you should have those funds blocked off there & then.

It could be the bank too; I personally have a debit/credit card with 3 banks, two work fine, but the third will let me purchase the amount available on my balance time and time again. So, if I have say 500 free, I can use a POS machine to buy 500 again and again for 3-4 days until bank puts me 3k in minus. This actually happened & it got me fuming.. The whole point is to allocate funds and ensure you cannot overspend.

I'll look into this with detail & reach out via PM

The potential is there for fraud, but against the bank. Although the bank will want the money back, it is an unsecured debt that could be hard to enforce against a customer who has made sure they have no assets in their name after perpetrating the fraud. In such a case, it's possible that the bank will then seek to recover the money via the chargeback system from the easiest target, which might be the casino. An intentional fraudster would realise that they had a fairly narrow time window, but in the UK we now have "faster payments" within the domestic banking network, so it would be possible to move the money several times in the couple of days it takes for the debit card transactions to be claimed from what would be an empty account that the fraudster would intentionally ditch.

I presume that the casino would not process a withdrawal until it was sure the deposits had cleared, and would then seek to send the money back to the debit card it came from. Since fraud is about gaining money, the only way the casino can lose out is if the player loses all the deposits, but the casino finds it's own winnings confiscated by the players' bank a couple of days later.

To complete a fraud, the fraudster would have to find a way to "lose" the money such that they can recover it later, probably from another participant in the scheme. This is a particular worry for poker operators, but there are some casino products that might also be used.

It is likely that to make this worthwhile, the fraudsters would be using bank accounts in the names of stolen identities, and multiple casino/poker accounts, which should get snared by the multi account detection systems.

The fault seems to lie with the banks, as they are not placing a hold on money that has been authorised for a debit card transaction, thus allowing the same money to be spent a number of times.

 

[paul7388]

yes the fault is with banks not casinos, it happens whether you pay rent or gamble or buy things, with Clydesdale bank which I use the money omes of account and if I spend £50 then its no longer in bank and in my account it shows as a debit transaction, but about 11 that night any debit transaction for that day then show up in my bank balance again , sometimes they disappear after about 10 mins but other times the balance is available again the whole next day till system updates again the next night, when the money is showing again you can withdraw it or use it again but next day you will be overdrawn by that amount, end of day bank sends a letter saying you are overdrawn as ive done it a few times over the years by mistake as lost track of amount of debits and thought I must have winnings in bank already when had more in bank than I thought, only way to avoid it is to keep track of everything you spend lol

 

[miso]

The potential is there for fraud, but against the bank. Although the bank will want the money back, it is an unsecured debt that could be hard to enforce against a customer who has made sure they have no assets in their name after perpetrating the fraud. In such a case, it's possible that the bank will then seek to recover the money via the chargeback system from the easiest target, which might be the casino. An intentional fraudster would realise that they had a fairly narrow time window, but in the UK we now have "faster payments" within the domestic banking network, so it would be possible to move the money several times in the couple of days it takes for the debit card transactions to be claimed from what would be an empty account that the fraudster would intentionally ditch.

I presume that the casino would not process a withdrawal until it was sure the deposits had cleared, and would then seek to send the money back to the debit card it came from. Since fraud is about gaining money, the only way the casino can lose out is if the player loses all the deposits, but the casino finds it's own winnings confiscated by the players' bank a couple of days later.

To complete a fraud, the fraudster would have to find a way to "lose" the money such that they can recover it later, probably from another participant in the scheme. This is a particular worry for poker operators, but there are some casino products that might also be used.

It is likely that to make this worthwhile, the fraudsters would be using bank accounts in the names of stolen identities, and multiple casino/poker accounts, which should get snared by the multi account detection systems.

The fault seems to lie with the banks, as they are not placing a hold on money that has been authorised for a debit card transaction, thus allowing the same money to be spent a number of times.

Now I hope no potential fraudster has read that post, Vinyl
It read like a guide

On a serious note, I think you are right that the potential is there, if the fraudster found a way how to shift that money.

And the most obvious would be chip dumping at poker. Because let`s say they redeposited their bank balance 5 times
at a casino, and lost, the bank could chargeback and close their account, same as casino. No real damage has been done.

But if they did this at, lets say Pokerstars, and dumped a large sum on a complice without raising a flag, that`s different.
If the complice manages to withdraw, the money would be gone. Without proof that those two players are linked, it could be really
hard to get it back (I assume).

 

[vinylweatherman]

Now I hope no potential fraudster has read that post, Vinyl
It read like a guide

On a serious note, I think you are right that the potential is there, if the fraudster found a way how to shift that money.

And the most obvious would be chip dumping at poker. Because let`s say they redeposited their bank balance 5 times
at a casino, and lost, the bank could chargeback and close their account, same as casino. No real damage has been done.

But if they did this at, lets say Pokerstars, and dumped a large sum on a complice without raising a flag, that`s different.
If the complice manages to withdraw, the money would be gone. Without proof that those two players are linked, it could be really
hard to get it back (I assume).

It's pretty obvious, probably what would actually be "too easy to be true" given that banks and the online industry have been suffering for years. Casino's defend against this by having ID checks, along with a rash of technical checks on the consistency of players' accounts and activities, such as the usual arguments over IP addresses, VPNs, static vs dynamic IP, etc. They also tend not to pay withdrawals based on deposits that have yet to clear. Poker sites are very alert to chip dumping, and often seem to overreact rather than let a fortune vanish beyond recovery.

The real danger is from fraudsters who have worked out a new angle, and this technical glitch in how banks account for funds already spent on a debit card is handing the fraudster community an opportunity to try something novel. It seems the banks don't really care if they can pass the loss on to someone else, such as the merchant who accepted the debit card transaction. I am pretty sure this has already been noticed, and exploited, although not necessarily in the online casino world. It would be far easier to exploit this glitch by shopping for desirable items, selling them using sites such as eBay or a car boot sale, and vanishing with the proceeds before the banks figure out that they have been "had", and will not be getting the money back from the customer, nor the unauthorised overdraft charges. A fraudster will not care that it will result in a negative entry on a credit file, along with civil action for recovery. They will have factored all of this into the scheme before deploying it.

However, the merchant might have good grounds for making the bank take the hit as the fraud only works because the bank has not properly processed the authorisation by ring fencing the funds until the transaction goes through, thus allowing a multiple spend of the same money among several merchants.

 

[sigothx1]

While i understand the fraud, I cant see why anyone would risk it, defrauding a bank carry's a massive sentence for the potential amount of money you could make in the short term.

 

[wobble33]

igor

I have sent you a pm, my debit card is duplicating aswell..

 

[wobble33]

I had a problem with betat via debit card way back as when i'd deposit using debit card it'd instantly send 2 payments of same amount in the pending but after 5 days when they didnt claim the second transaction it would come back

Hence the reason for me to open skrill to avoid all the confusion of pending payments and all that

yep, I noticed today this duplicate deposits. waiting 5 days then the bank don't take it out. so if this was happening way back, its still happening now. needs fixing this igor..

this is on my statement now...


Date

Description

Type [?]

In (£)

Out (£)

Balance (£)



04 Mar 14
www.bet-at.eu CD XXXX DEB 50.00

that's no problem, transaction done.

this is now awaiting on my pending transactions to be took out again...

01 Mar 14 WWW.BET-AT.EU/ MALTA MT xxxx Card Not Present 50.00

 

[wobble33]

betat

don't understand here, you lot have replied to another thread today. but not on this thread no reply to my pm either yet...

 

[peezo13]

Happens to me as well

 

[dunover]

What usually happens is that the vendor/processor 'dips' your current account for the amount you are attempting to deposit. Say you have £100 in your current account, you make a £25 deposit, your balance should still show £100 but also state '£75 available'. The deposit is NOT removed from your balance until a couple of days later usually when the transaction confirmed by the vendor/processor is paid by your bank - it is though removed IMMEDIATELY (or should be!) from your 'available funds' in order to prevent overdrawing as indeed it should have been in Igor's case the Bet-at rep. His account would be a fraudsters golden goose if they could spend the 'same £500' over and over indefinitely at POS.....

Quite frequently I make a deposit and w/d on Friday at a casino and both the debit and cashout appear out and in of my available funds on the same day, say the next Wednesday - this often occurs with casinos that have fast cashouts.

 

[Igor82]

betat

don't understand here, you lot have replied to another thread today. but not on this thread no reply to my pm either yet...

hi sorry, i got your PM and im trying to figure out why it only happens to some.

im querying the gateway to see why they charge and authorise which is what seems to be happening.

i need some answers before i knw what exactly needs fixing. its limited to a handful of accounts in comparison to majority of users

 

[wobble33]

What usually happens is that the vendor/processor 'dips' your current account for the amount you are attempting to deposit. Say you have £100 in your current account, you make a £25 deposit, your balance should still show £100 but also state '£75 available'. The deposit is NOT removed from your balance until a couple of days later usually when the transaction confirmed by the vendor/processor is paid by your bank - it is though removed IMMEDIATELY (or should be!) from your 'available funds' in order to prevent overdrawing as indeed it should have been in Igor's case the Bet-at rep. His account would be a fraudsters golden goose if they could spend the 'same £500' over and over indefinitely at POS.....

Quite frequently I make a deposit and w/d on Friday at a casino and both the debit and cashout appear out and in of my available funds on the same day, say the next Wednesday - this often occurs with casinos that have fast cashouts.

yes I know this dunover. I deposit everyday via debit card mainly. whats happening is. say I have £10k in my bank, I make a £5k deposit at betat. now only £5k is available in my account to spend or withdraw. now few days later the £5k is coming out like it should, then when I look in my bank account. the £5k is waiting to be processed again!

that's where the duplicate is coming in. I use verified by visa, but for some reason when betat are going to take out your deposit via debit card. its actually taking the right amount first. then it is duplicating it again.

you now have to wait 5 days and you can see they haven't actually took the other money out. and it now becomes available again!

this is not good as if I only have say £10k in my bank, they would take 5k, and the other 5k would be tied up until this 5 day lark again, then released when betat have not gone to take it out again.

 

[wobble33]

hi sorry, i got your PM and im trying to figure out why it only happens to some.

im querying the gateway to see why they charge and authorise which is what seems to be happening.

i need some answers before i knw what exactly needs fixing. its limited to a handful of accounts in comparison to majority of users

igor

this seems to me to be happening when people are using verified by visa. and that's alarming because verified by visa pose to protect you better from fraud..