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BETAT - Account Suspended issue with IP address

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by goremarine, Nov 26, 2015.

    Nov 26, 2015
  1. goremarine

    goremarine Full Member

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    Oxford
    Can anyone shed some light on what the hell this is all about please?
    After having requested a withdrawal I received the email below. I have used BETAT for the past few months and had no problems with deposits & withdrawals.

    Email:

    Also we still request an explanation as we have noticed that you have accessed your account via the same IP address as another registered account holder.
    Your account will be temporarily suspended until we receive an explanation stating why you have accessed your account via the same IP address as another registered account holder.
    Please contact us at your earliest convenience to resolve the above matter.
    Regards,
    Malin
    BETAT Customer Support
     
  2. Nov 26, 2015
  3. AintWon1967

    AintWon1967 Experienced Member

    Location:
    Canada
    They have a strict policy and my account was closed because another member in my household had an account (although I had no funds pending)

    T&C
    5.9 In all cases, only one account per customer, per household, per address, per shared computer and per shared IP address will be allowed to sign up and make use of BETAT Casino. BETAT Casino may and will determine whether multiple accounts are linked to the same person.

    Connie
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Nov 26, 2015
  5. goremarine

    goremarine Full Member

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    Oxford
    Thanks for pointing that out.
    That would make sense but I live on my own and no one else uses my laptop.
    Funny how they flag this up when I'm making a withdrawal but the last 4 deposits haven't caused an issue.
     
  6. Nov 26, 2015
  7. Jd666

    Jd666 RiffRaff CAG mm4

    Occupation:
    Maggot Farmer
    Location:
    Republic Of West Yorkshire
    You havent played on Betat from a public wifi connection have you?
    Or use a mobile connection to play there
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Nov 26, 2015
  9. goremarine

    goremarine Full Member

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    Oxford
    Yes I have actually.
    That would explain it perhaps.

    I tether off my mobile when at my gf's
     
  10. Nov 26, 2015
  11. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    2 people like this.
  12. Nov 26, 2015
  13. goremarine

    goremarine Full Member

    Occupation:
    Designer
    Location:
    Oxford
    Thanks, I'll drop them a message now
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Nov 26, 2015
  15. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Best PM a mod and ask them to move this to Non bonus complaints as well I would say.

    GL getting this resolved. I always think its funny when theres never an issue when depositing but on a withdrawal suddenly theres a problem :rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Nov 26, 2015
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This may be the problem, but their email requires the average customer to be clued up with how the mobile industry works. You SHOULD be OK as you are using YOUR phone, but the way the mobile industry works can cause the same IP address to be shared around the general public, and not merely those who live in a certain area covered by a local server, but by anyone from anywhere who happens to be in range of the same subset of masks that your phone connects with when at your GF's place.

    It's ironic that this problem has not been accepted by the industry as a standard consequence of "going mobile" given that the latest push has been to get players away from their desktops and accessing their casinos when they are out and about through phones and tablets.

    Even with your own home internet connection you can run into problems as IP addresses are usually allocated dynamically, it's just how the internet works, you don't have your own personal IP address, you take one from the pool every time you switch your connection on. It's like hiring a car, and then finding yourself arrested because a previous hirer committed a crime using the vehicle.

    If you as a player has little clue as to how things work on the ISP side, you would have little clue on how to explain the same IP address being used by another player. The bigger the player base a casino has, the greater chance there is that an individual IP address gets allocated to more than one player over a period of time.

    The safest option is to ignore the marketing that tries to get you to use your casino from a mobile device when out and about, and ONLY use it from your home internet connection, one that is secure and where you share freely with other household members which casinos you all play at to ensure that only one of you has an account at any given casino.

    This problem will only be solved once IPv6 is in widespread use, and every device can "own" it's own individual IP address. Implementation seems to be constantly delayed by the ISP industry, even though it would solve the problem of there being such a shortage of IP addresses under IPv4 that dynamic allocation from a pool will end up not being sufficient for the demand, and people will find they can't connect because the pool is empty, and they will be queued for connection.

    Other internet services have moved away from using the unreliable pairing of IP address and geolocation and use device specific authentication. The USA has decided that IP address and geolocation simply isn't good enough for online casinos in the legal US market, and they have had to implement other means of identifying the actual physical location of the player's point of connection in order to enforce access to within state boundaries only.
     
    4 people like this.
  18. Nov 27, 2015
  19. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    You will not be the first to complain about this,There are a few other threads with the same problem,

    It really does make you scratch your head, Why on earth is it only when it comes to a withdraw? First it was all the self exclusion business by taking deposits and only when a withdraw was made it was flagged up, Surely they have measures in place for this?
     
  20. Nov 27, 2015
  21. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    In Betat's defence here, this has happened to me before, not using the same IP as somebody else but a different one to normal, they emailed me a similar email shortly after I had deposited, so I think it is not just at withdrawal
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Nov 27, 2015
  23. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Maybe not but this also goes to show that they have the ability to flag this up, It could be it was the players only time they had signed in from a diffrent I.P but that would be a big coincident

    I not blaming betat as I think they are taking measures to try and stop fraudsters,

    Any way my heart stooped for a few milli seconds when got an email with account suspended Untill I relized it was a reply from casinomeister :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Nov 27, 2015
  25. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    I've had several problems in the past with the Betat site not allowing me to log in, because the system said i was logging in from a restricted location.

    The last time it happened, I emailed them about it, and their attitude wasn't particularly pleasant, Like they were accusing me of doing something fraudulent.

    So I used a ip tracing site, and took screenshots from it, showing that I was indeed in the UK.
    They then replied to say that it was a error in their system, No apology or anything.

    Needless to say, I stopped playing there quite as often, not because of the technical problem, but because of their attitude
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Nov 27, 2015
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The error is in THE system of using IP addresses of players as though they are unique identifiers like fingerprints. They are not, and never have been, and no amount of technology their end can correct the fundamental problem that IP addresses are DYNAMICALLY ALLOCATED ON DEMAND, rather than provided to subscribers for their exclusive use throughout the length of their contract with their ISP. It is even a problem when on a home internet connection. Using mobile devices the truly suspicious thing would be a player NOT signing on with different IP addresses, as it would point to them using a proxy server or VPN rather than revealing their true IP address.

    Accusing random players of "fraud", even indirectly, when all they have done is use what their ISP or mobile carrier provides, is going to make players feel that the casino is simply inventing reasons not to pay out, especially when these issues usually come up with a withdrawal, rather than a deposit. If they want an explanation, they are asking the wrong people, they need to be asking the big ISP and mobile network providers why different people are showing the same IP address when visiting their site.

    This problem is well known in the fight against piracy, and IP address does not identify an offender. What has to be done is to ask the relevant ISP which of it's subscribers was allocated a given IP address at certain times. This can be used to determine who's internet connection was used to illegally share the latest movie, but would also help in cases like this by showing which casino account holders were connecting via this IP address at the specified times, and from where.

    This problem isn't going away until we all have IPv6.
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Nov 30, 2015
  29. quber

    quber Senior Member

    Occupation:
    spy
    Location:
    Europe
    To get the details of the "owner" of a certain IP at a certain time they would need to go to court, the ISP can't just give it out.

    This sort of thing just shouldn't be happening these days as the casinos should know that IP addresses change as VM says. I could quite easily re-boot my router before every deposit to get a different IP but i am sure they wouldn't entertain my claims of the account being hacked.

    What they should do is collect the MAC address of the devices being used as they can't be easily changed, if two accounts used the same MAC address then they can ask the questions.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Nov 30, 2015
  31. CM_BETAT

    CM_BETAT I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Head of Casino
    Location:
    Malta
    Solved?

    Hi goremarine,

    I havent heard from you so I am assuming this is solved?

    If this is still pending please dont hesitate to get in touch with me or BETAT to look into it. Im sure it is nothing, as is the case for 99% of these issues.

    Let me know..

    Thanks,
    Karl
     
  32. Nov 30, 2015
  33. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I rememberer back now, It was betat or there sister site, I kept getting logged of if I remember right or something similar, After speaking to support I was told because my IP had changed, I stated that I had the same provider for years, Than they asked was I using a mobile?

    It is the only site it happened and I have seen a few complaints about about the IP change at betat on here
     
  34. Nov 30, 2015
  35. miksaxxx

    miksaxxx Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer related
    Location:
    Finland
    no

    I played many years in betway, and one day they payed from my 5k withdraw 2k.. Then they asked why my ip is changed.. It was from househould residence.. But they 2 days after payed rest 3k € ..

    So ip can change, and could same than other used in 300 km away..
     
  36. Dec 1, 2015
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It may be nothing 99% of the time, but you are asking the CUSTOMER to explain the technical issues underlying it, when you should be asking the ISP industry these questions. If a player using an EE mobile network changes their IP address, ask EE what it is that causes this on their network, not the customer.

    The customers don't know the answers (usually), but you could rephrase the question into terms a customer should understand, like asking them what devices they use to access their account and where. You could also ask them if they sometimes access their accounts on a friend's PC, or at a friend's house via their household Wi-Fi.

    If it is REALLY going to be an issue, then accessing one's account should be confined to one's own home and internet connection, and the service should not be offered on mobile devices.

    Until we have better technology in place, and IPv6 is a start, there are too many false alarms with using IP address to police players' activities, and geolocation isn't much better at determining where an IP address is located. My ISP is Virgin Media, one of the largest providers in the UK, but there are often complaints from users that they can't access TV catchup services of the national lottery website due to these sites wrongly determining they are "not in the UK" due to faulty geolocation.

    The regulators in New Jersey have declared that IP address and geolocation is not fit for purpose when it comes to policing use of their online casinos, and a different technology based on the device itself and surrounding Wi-Fi nodes is being used to geolocate the player to within metres. If these casinos can do it, then any online casino can because the technology is there. Players using a VPN can't bypass this kind of technology as the geolocation of the VPN IP address is irrelevant to the checking process.
     
    3 people like this.
  38. Dec 1, 2015
  39. quber

    quber Senior Member

    Occupation:
    spy
    Location:
    Europe
    This doesn't solve the IP issue though as a re-booted router will pick up a different IP address, except for the rare occasions where someone pays for a fixed address.

    There are a lot of reasons why someone would re-boot a router such as a power cut, change of settings, having a problem connecting etc.

    A change of IP address should not raise any flags and be questioned as it happens to millions of people every day, 2 accounts on the same IP however could be used to start an investigation. It would be a small chance that they are different people/household if they both played on the same day, if they played a year apart then the chances of them being the same person are slim, depending on the place they live, you would be very unlikely to pick up an IP you have previously used in, say, London but in one of the islands in the Western Isles then you would have a much greater chance due to the smaller range of IP's available.
     

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