Resolved BET-AT.EU - bonus issue - resolved

[Steve Russo]

I am not so certain that the casino was ripped off -- although that might well have been the intent.

Bet-at.eu has a different kind of bonus program. It actually rewards those who play more there.

I didn't really see how well it worked until Igor set me up with a fake account. I was given 850 Euros in what was theoretically "real money". (Of course, as I didn't deposit anything and couldn't cash out anything, there was nothing real about this real money.) I was given the welcome bonus but also two other bonuses which went into effect after I bet enough "real money" to earn the welcome bonus.

I am not going to go into the complicated details here, but suffice it to say that the more someone wagers at Bet-at.eu, the bigger the bonuses become. It is done in a way which I have not yet seen in the on line gambling industry and, frankly, I think it is far superior to how other casinos work.

What I can't see is how a syndicate can rip it off. Unlike other places, where the welcome bonus is the lure, there is no advantage to having multiple accounts at Bet-at-eu. In fact, if you do open more than one account, you are hurting yourself by not getting qualified for the more generous bonuses. If I were in Igor's shoes, I wouldn't care how many people chipped in to provide the needed stake to play there -- any more than Rolex cares how many people gave someone money so he could afford to buy his watch.

If this was a syndicate (and the screenshot which Gameon posted tends to make me believe that it was) then they might well have intended to defraud Bet-at.eu but wound up merely providing the casino with a new player.

Indeed, had Gameon not publicly (and repeatedly) attempted to dirty Bet-at.eu's reputation, and refused to be satisfied with a very fair solution to a minor problem, I suspect that she would still be welcome there even if her stake came from 100 ex boyfriends, all of whom, "by coincidence" have Neteller accounts.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am not so certain that the casino was ripped off -- although that might well have been the intent.

Bet-at.eu has a different kind of bonus program. It actually rewards those who play more there.

I didn't really see how well it worked until Igor set me up with a fake account. I was given 850 Euros in what was theoretically "real money". (Of course, as I didn't deposit anything and couldn't cash out anything, there was nothing real about this real money.) I was given the welcome bonus but also two other bonuses which went into effect after I bet enough "real money" to earn the welcome bonus.

I am not going to go into the complicated details here, but suffice it to say that the more someone wagers at Bet-at.eu, the bigger the bonuses become. It is done in a way which I have not yet seen in the on line gambling industry and, frankly, I think it is far superior to how other casinos work.

What I can't see is how a syndicate can rip it off. Unlike other places, where the welcome bonus is the lure, there is no advantage to having multiple accounts at Bet-at-eu. In fact, if you do open more than one account, you are hurting yourself by not getting qualified for the more generous bonuses. If I were in Igor's shoes, I wouldn't care how many people chipped in to provide the needed stake to play there -- any more than Rolex cares how many people gave someone money so he could afford to buy his watch.

If this was a syndicate (and the screenshot which Gameon posted tends to make me believe that it was) then they might well have intended to defraud Bet-at.eu but wound up merely providing the casino with a new player.

Indeed, had Gameon not publicly (and repeatedly) attempted to dirty Bet-at.eu's reputation, and refused to be satisfied with a very fair solution to a minor problem, I suspect that she would still be welcome there even if her stake came from 100 ex boyfriends, all of whom, "by coincidence" have Neteller accounts.

Maybe not, but the motive may have been to probe the system to see if any loopholes existed, which other members of the syndicate would later probe further, until a flaw was discovered. At least the casino now knows that they have come under scrutiny, and can be better prepared to spot any concerted attack on a flaw in the system if and when it comes.

 

[Casinomeister]

It doesn't matter what the intent is, fraud is fraud. It's criminal mischief and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[stuyoung49]

Love the suggestions BTW - first one isn't being implemented but will be from now. Thank you very much!

Best suggestion would be to verify an account before accepting the first deposit or granting a bonus. Weed out who you don't want before they win anything and create controversy.

 

[KasinoKing]

Best suggestion would be to verify an account before accepting the first deposit or granting a bonus. Weed out who you don't want before they win anything and create controversy.

That's extremely unlikely to happen at any casino.
Gamblers by their very nature, are impatient - if they had to wait a day or two to get their account approved they would just go and play somewhere else which didn't have pre-verification.

KK

 

[Revel]

That's extremely unlikely to happen at any casino.
Gamblers by their very nature, are impatient - if they had to wait a day or two to get their account approved they would just go and play somewhere else which didn't have pre-verification.

It might be useful if players had the option to request pre-approval before betting.

 

[Playforfun]

What player is going to "request a pre-approval before betting"?

self exclusion? or what?

It might be useful if players had the option to request pre-approval before betting.

 

[Steve Russo]

What player is going to "request a pre-approval before betting"?

self exclusion? or what?

I do.

I won't deposit one penny at a casino until it has reviewed my documentation and agreed that I am who I say I am, it has found no indication that I have duplicate accounts anywhere or have ever been banned from any casino. It must also say that unless I violate its T&Cs in the future I will be paid whatever I have in my account.

Some casinos refuse to do this. Others have no problem with it.

 

[Gremmyboy]

Perhaps it could be done this way......

When you register and join the Casino(any casino) you are entitled to a trial bonus to try out the Casino.... Say 25%. Before you deposit your first deposit into Casino a pop-up box will pop up reminding you that you have 5 days left to activate your 'bonus' account by verifying your account. Failure to comply will result in No Bonuses being available after the initial trial bonus and account closure when the 5 days have expired(Emails sent to player every single day of the 5 days to remind them and countdown how many days are left to verify account). Compliance will give you access to weekly bonuses and all the trimmings! The message could state that you are free to deposit and play with real funds until such time as the account is verified or locked due to sending in requested docs. The message box could also offer a really good SUB as the fraudsters would be caught out before they could take the casino for a ride!
The Casino would need to be able to process the Docs super fast for it to work!

appologies if my idea isn't clear, Very Tired due to a new night shift that work 'kindly' shoved me on because no-one else wanted to do it and I was nice enough to help them out(Stupid, Stupid, Stupid! )!


Cheers
Gremmy

 

[maphesto]

I do.

I won't deposit one penny at a casino until it has reviewed my documentation and agreed that I am who I say I am, it has found no indication that I have duplicate accounts anywhere or have ever been banned from any casino. It must also say that unless I violate its T&Cs in the future I will be paid whatever I have in my account.

Some casinos refuse to do this. Others have no problem with it.

Do you mean that it does matter if a player has been banned at another casino, whatever reason?

 

[Steve Russo]

Do you mean that it does matter if a player has been banned at another casino, whatever reason?

Yes, it matters (although I don't agree that it should always matter). I have worked on complaints from players who were refused their winnings because the casino discovered that they had been banned at another casino.

 

[Jufo]

That's extremely unlikely to happen at any casino.
Gamblers by their very nature, are impatient - if they had to wait a day or two to get their account approved they would just go and play somewhere else which didn't have pre-verification.

But since most casinos offer some kind of sign-up bonus the players might find the patience to wait those couple of days to play it.

My account was be pre-approved at every Wagerworks casino I joined, and before I could play, so the bolded part of your statement is not true.

 

[stuyoung49]

I do.

I won't deposit one penny at a casino until it has reviewed my documentation and agreed that I am who I say I am, it has found no indication that I have duplicate accounts anywhere or have ever been banned from any casino. It must also say that unless I violate its T&Cs in the future I will be paid whatever I have in my account.

Some casinos refuse to do this. Others have no problem with it.

So you email the casino first and say you want your documents reviewed?

 

[Nifty29]

But since most casinos offer some kind of sign-up bonus the players might find the patience to wait those couple of days to play it.

My account was be pre-approved at every Wagerworks casino I joined, and before I could play, so the bolded part of your statement is not true.

Some players MIGHT. The overwhelming majority won't.

Result = commercial suicide.

For the record, I am in favour of it.....but unless they all implement it simultaneously, its not going to happen as the operators that do would be turning away players in droves.

It would also take far more than a few days if every player had to be pre-verified. It can take days now when there is only a trickle. A new casino with thousands of new signups each day initially would be swamped and would take weeks to get things done. Also, there is still the matter of fraud management based on payment methods and bonus rules etc etc.

 

[P.V.]

It can take days now when there is only a trickle.

Slight derail/

Agreed Nifty except for the above quote. U.S. players can be verified within a matter of minutes, not days as long as their information is correct along with their doc's.

Nifty is fully aware I have an interest in this field, but a heads up for those who don't.

Like with my site, if a U.S. player sends their documents to an IGaming site for review, that information can also be entered into an API tool for verification by the IGaming site.

API definition - Verification is done by matching a players submitted information with that in a national database of government and public data. In order to become verified, specific pieces of information must match. (Not a background check).

A U.S player can be verified by an OC in less than five minutes with a good system, again if they're providing correct information. That's reviewing their hard documents and entering said information manually into the API Identity Checker for additional verification.

Some fun stats - an online casino facing U.S. players can actually verify 288 players within a 24 hour period with a staff of one working 24/7, if in fact the player provides correct information to the online casino during the verification process.

And like what Nifty said pre-verification is a choice and not a requirement. Is it a good idea, sure but you'll need to wait before playing, is it a requirement, no.

For U.S. players, Nevada regulations for online poker will require verification after registration, you have 30 days and if you don't comply they can confiscate all money and close the account.

 

[Steve Russo]

So you email the casino first and say you want your documents reviewed?

Exactly. If they agree I then send my documents. (Note: I never send my passport. If a casino requires that, I will simply play somewhere else.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I do.

I won't deposit one penny at a casino until it has reviewed my documentation and agreed that I am who I say I am, it has found no indication that I have duplicate accounts anywhere or have ever been banned from any casino. It must also say that unless I violate its T&Cs in the future I will be paid whatever I have in my account.

Some casinos refuse to do this. Others have no problem with it.

Just as a heads-up I registered at Pinnacle Casino yesterday and deposited £200 using a credit card.

BEFORE my deposit was accepted a very clear message was displayed to me that I would be required to send a set of documentation for approval within 72 hours. (Credit card scan front and back (with the CSV number obscured), photo ID scan, and a signed credit card authorisation form.)

This is all handled through the Pinnacle Casino website itself via an uploader screen.

I got my docs together and uploaded them, and they were approved within an hour.

Never had that before but I have to say I quite like it as a way of doing things. (If they ever ask me for anything additional when I come to make a withdrawal I'll be quite narked though!)

 

[P.V.]

Just as a heads-up I registered at Pinnacle Casino yesterday and deposited £200 using a credit card.

BEFORE my deposit was accepted a very clear message was displayed to me that I would be required to send a set of documentation for approval within 72 hours. (Credit card scan front and back (with the CSV number obscured), photo ID scan, and a signed credit card authorisation form.)

This is all handled through the Pinnacle Casino website itself via an uploader screen.

I got my docs together and uploaded them, and they were approved within an hour.

Never had that before but I have to say I quite like it as a way of doing things. (If they ever ask me for anything additional when I come to make a withdrawal I'll be quite narked though!)

Better than most BUT how do you update and or delete your doc. information from their server once sent?

Most off shore licensed authorities require this to be backed up for years. Some 7 years, go figure, not me, JMO!

 

[KasinoKing]

Perhaps it could be done this way......

When you register and join the Casino(any casino) you are entitled to a trial bonus to try out the Casino.... Say 25%. Before you deposit your first deposit into Casino a pop-up box will pop up reminding you that you have 5 days left to activate your 'bonus' account by verifying your account. Failure to comply will result in No Bonuses being available after the initial trial bonus and account closure when the 5 days have expired(Emails sent to player every single day of the 5 days to remind them and countdown how many days are left to verify account). Compliance will give you access to weekly bonuses and all the trimmings! The message could state that you are free to deposit and play with real funds until such time as the account is verified or locked due to sending in requested docs. The message box could also offer a really good SUB as the fraudsters would be caught out before they could take the casino for a ride!
The Casino would need to be able to process the Docs super fast for it to work!

That's a very good idea!

Some casinos already offer post-wager bonuses (your fully cashable bonus money is added to your account only AFTER you have completed the WR using your own deposited funds).
So they could let you deposit & start playing, with the proviso that your account needs to be fully verified in the next 7-days (or whatever) BEFORE they give you the bonus.
This type of bonus is also a great deterrent for bonus "abusers" (casino's term, not mine!) because they don't have any bonus funds in their account which allow for a "double or bust" strategy.

KK