Bernhard vs ?mystery casino?

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Bernhard

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Location
Frankfurt
Hello there. This is my first post and sadly it is not a happy one.
I am looking for some advice and I do not want to present too many details.

But one of the biggest casino groups in Europe has bribed me from going to media.

I had a complaint towards them about thousands of Euro. It took them three months to "investigate" my complaint where I got more impatient by the weeks and started to say that I would consider going to the media.
As soon as I mentioned this about media they sent me a letter where they concluded they hadn't done anything wrong, but without reason sent me a Goodwill of less than half of my claim afraid that I would go to the biggest newspapers about my complaint.

I appreciate any recommendations or advice on how to proceed by experienced people in a situation like this.
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
Without as you say "too many details" would be very hard to advise further.

From what I read and making an educated guess to fill in the blanks....

If your 100% (not 99%) confident YOU did nothing wrong, did not break ANY terms then I'd do whatever it takes to recover the full amount owed.

Even the slightest doubt where the casino could use ANYTHING against you then I'd be grateful I at least got something.

Hope this makes sense and of course helps!
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
A number of questions...

Did you accept the money? Did they say they would only pay you if you accepted an NDA (or similar)? Did you sign an NDA, or anything similar? Did you accept in writing that you would not go to the media in any other way? Did you verbally accept on a phone call they told you was being recorded? What exactly is it that you believe they did wrong? Etc.. etc..

So far, you are going to struggle to get any advice (other than through a PAB) on the details (or lack of) you have provided.
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
why don't you outline some of the gist of the complaint, i.e player A did this, casino B did that, without naming anybody or too much detail so we can get an idea of the area of complaint and seriousness of the situation.

The word 'bribe' to me would suggest something very serious that could have wider implications for other players or their licence/reputation...
 

Bernhard

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 10, 2018
Location
Frankfurt
Thank you for replies.

So this happened:

I open account at a casino some years ago and closed my account permanently because of addiction. This also some years ago from that casino and all in the same casino grouo.
Then this year I managed to open account at sister site with same name (except middle name), same e-mail, same bank account, bank cards.
I lost a lot of money and had a good conversation about it with customer service. When we found out I should not be able to open account they said I should send a complaint which I did. After reading about some laws about marketing which I recieved, I understood I could claim back my losses only from the last casino I played on.
I did everything by the book, but it took so long time and CS was very upset about it with me. In the end I said if I don't recieve an answer I will go to media because this was very stressfull. I got a letter immidiately the next day where they stated it was my middle name that was the problem, but anyway sent me thousands of Euro as a gesture of goodwill.
I did not believe it, but said ok. But later on I realised they did it to not make me go to media about it. And I complained later, but recieve no answer from them.

I've never heard of anything like this before from anyone. That is why I think it is bribing. And I can document everything. I don't know if I should be happy or not for anything, but I feel they took advantage and hide behind that goodwill. If they did nothing wrong, why send me so many thousands if Euro? I do not want to post the letter here, maybe just parts of it if needed. But I respect this persons privacy who sent me the letter.
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
I see, it sounds similar to a kind of compromise agreement and on the face of it by making a large payment of thousands of euros seems like they accept their system was not robust enough to identify that your details matched those of an already excluded player bar the middle name. Maybe that's where the compromise comes in from their viewpoint, that the different middle name justifies them keeping most of the lost deposits, but I think the whole situation depends on the guidance/rules of their gambling licence and any precedent in your country for such occurrences.

In the uk I believe there have been cases of self excluded gamblers having their deposits repaid after they've managed to create a new account and lose again, its kind of the accepted practice that lost deposits to a casino are refunded if at the relevant time you are excluded from that casino groups gambling sites, I think, as long as it would have been reasonable to expect them to detect the matching identities. 'same e-mail, same bank account, bank cards' does seem strong evidence of identifying someone.

If we're talking thousands of euros lost then that also lends weight to you suffering from a serious addiction and not well. In that scenario do the casino really want to hold onto all of the money you were able to deposit and lose, maybe you should write back to them and also to the licencing authority, explaining your situation and politely request the remainder of your deposits lost while registered with them as an excluded person due to a gambling addiction illness.

I'm sure more experienced forum members than me will offer you further advice.
 
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snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Personally and it’s only my opinion. I think either casinos need to have a more thorough sign up procedure to eradicate these problems or the player has to accept responsibility for their own actions. I know gambling can be an addiction and a very strong one but you can’t tell me that a player is self excluded from every available site. Therefore if someone creates an account knowing they are self excluded it can only be deemed as an attempt to deceive the casino as in if I lose I squeal self exclusion and get my deposits returned and if I win I hope they don’t catch me out. Let’s be honest if you had won £10k would you have turned around to the casino and said please don’t pay me I am self excluded.
 

theapple

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 5, 2013
Location
far far away
Thank you for replies.

So this happened:

I open account at a casino some years ago and closed my account permanently because of addiction. This also some years ago from that casino and all in the same casino grouo.
Then this year I managed to open account at sister site with same name (except middle name), same e-mail, same bank account, bank cards.
I lost a lot of money and had a good conversation about it with customer service. When we found out I should not be able to open account they said I should send a complaint which I did. After reading about some laws about marketing which I recieved, I understood I could claim back my losses only from the last casino I played on.
I did everything by the book, but it took so long time and CS was very upset about it with me. In the end I said if I don't recieve an answer I will go to media because this was very stressfull. I got a letter immidiately the next day where they stated it was my middle name that was the problem, but anyway sent me thousands of Euro as a gesture of goodwill.
I did not believe it, but said ok. But later on I realised they did it to not make me go to media about it. And I complained later, but recieve no answer from them.

I've never heard of anything like this before from anyone. That is why I think it is bribing. And I can document everything. I don't know if I should be happy or not for anything, but I feel they took advantage and hide behind that goodwill. If they did nothing wrong, why send me so many thousands if Euro? I do not want to post the letter here, maybe just parts of it if needed. But I respect this persons privacy who sent me the letter.

Honestly, im usually pro-player but in cases like this it makes it way too easy for players to either a) win and dont say anything about it or b) loose and then complain why would casinos let you play at the first place.

Now im not saying you did it on purpose and i know addiction is not something to mess up with. Casino in question is not guilt free there either but the fact your middle name is different now might give them an edge if you were ever to go to the court (or media) because they could make it look like you intentionally changed it to deceive the system. If you self excluded yourself long time ago, because of new data protection rules im not sure they are even allowed to keep bank account/cards data from years ago, so that could also go in their favor too.

And one last thing, if they sent you a goodwill gesture "gift", it doesnt necessarily mean its a bribe. It could also mean they simply wanted to avoid bad publicity and settle it off court, even if its a winnable case for them. Being able to document it could work both in your favor but it could also be used against you depending on what you signed/said over the phone too so things arent that simple.

Regardless of what you decide to do next, the very best thing you could do is to register yourself at a place like gamstop, and im sure there is something like that in Germany too.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... In the end I said if I don't recieve an answer I will go to media because this was very stressfull. I got a letter immidiately the next day where they stated it was my middle name that was the problem, but anyway sent me thousands of Euro as a gesture of goodwill. ...

You threatened them and their business, they offered you a settlement, you took it, and now you want more. No dice, that's not the way it works and that's not what these forums are for. If you think you've got a case take it to court. Your free publicity of this stops now.
 
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