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bellerockgaming problem solved

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Pete, Jan 7, 2005.

    Jan 7, 2005
  1. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    Where do I start?

    I have an account at the luckynugget and the gamingclub, I have used various credit cards (and neteller) to fund what has been on the whole, an enjoyable gaming experience. Whenever I've needed to contact support, to answer queries, or for bonuses, they have always been courteous - No problems whatsoever with group, Until, One day, around the end of last month when I was adding up the purchases made on my credit card (the account is an online account so there are no paper bills!).

    On this particular card, there were 15 transactions to 'OceanViewSA Luxembourg LU'.
    Over my two casino accounts I had only made 14 chip purchases on this card!!!
    Also, about 4 of the transactions on the card were for sums greater than the chips I had purchased (exchange rates from UK into US funds took place, but other transactions were correct)

    So after a couple of phone calls and emails (don't forget I explained to support my cc account was a paperless account) Bellerockgaming wouldn't entertain the idea of looking into the problem until I submitted copies of my statement.

    Ok, I agreed, but they wouldn't answer my suggestion that they check their records of chip purchases on this card against the records they would have for the credit card transactions in their finance department - this miffed me a little, but everyone has rules, regs and procedures, so I had to wait until my online credit card statement was ready, around the 11th of Dec before I could 'pay' (a nominal fee) to have a paper statement delivered to me!

    Obviously due to christmas, and the statement being sent 2nd class post, I didn't get it until Fri 31st Dec, where I promptly scanned it and emailed it off to admin@proccyber. Before sending it, I phoned and agreed with the nice chap at support that I WOULD NOT blot out any other transactions or otherwise mark or hide anything on the statement. I have nothing to hide, and wanted to show that 'i trust' everything would be handled in confidence, and that I was 'up front' with query!

    Since sending this off, there have been no emails, or calls from them, so I have phoned a couple of times, to be told ' phone back in 24 hours, phone back'!

    Tonight, after speaking to a chap, I think his name was 'Marlen', very nice to begin with, but I think we both 'riled' each other up a little with the frustration towards the end, Marlen informed me, 'oh, they are waiting for me to point out which particular transactions I am querying, although I had already pointed these out in earlier emails from cut and pastes from my online statement!!!!!

    Theyre giving me the run around, the sums involved are not a great deal, probably only around 100, but I probably only play with around 300 - 400 a month on average, so you can understand why I noticed it.

    Why, for what should be a simple and straight forward task, can't two things happen:

    1. The casino check there own records and see the plainly obvious mistakes!
    2. Pay the cash back!

    I'm not after an apology, mistakes can and do happen, it's a fact of life. It's the stubborness of whoever is runnning this group that they simply won't say to someone "Go sort out this guys problem, he may be wrong, put him straight, or we may have incorrectly billed his card".

    Makes me wonder....... How often does this happen and go unnoticed!

    Incidently, they have locked my gaming club account, but when I last checked, not my luckynugget account!

    Thanks for listnening (anyone!!!)
     
  2. Jan 7, 2005
  3. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Pete:

    Welcome to the Forum and thanks for taking the time to put this down on paper.

    Quote: "Makes me wonder....... How often does this happen and go unnoticed!" This type of thing seems to be happening more and more.

    I think what I'd do if I were you is maybe copy and paste this information into an email to Bryan Bailey the owner of the Casinomeister website and see if he might be able to make some inquiries on your behalf.

    Bryan's emal address is This email is not visible to you.

    Have a good one.
     
  4. Jan 7, 2005
  5. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    Hi,
    Thanks, I've been a lurker, and a member for a while, think i've notched up 2 or 3 posts now.

    I threatened to post this here tonight after getting the run around on the phone again, more to 'vent' some frustration. I'm not unreasonable, it's weekend and probably not alot is going to happen till next week, so I'll give them a few days to see if they come up with anything before I ask for some 'real' help.

    I don't really expect to see any money, I have had some nice wins from bonuses lately from the group, It's just frustrating the stance they have taken on the matter, it's more to do with the principle more than anything now - If I had wagered $2 less than was needed for a bonus, they would certainly throw the book at me, that's what tickles me. No doubt they'll come up with some excuse - Maybe i've made a HUGE mistake and I'm completely wrong, and it's normal to debit extra payments in certain circumstances, but I just cannot get an answer or statement from them other than "It will be looked into" - it's been getting looked into since the beginning of December, maybe the group is in real truoble and they need the money?

    Pete
     
  6. Jan 8, 2005
  7. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Don't you yourself know by now which 14 are correct and which one is wrong?

    If you don't, I'd ask yourself why not. I'm sure it would help them if you could pin-point the difference.

    Doesn't your on-line card show you current month activity so you can check your purchases a day or two after you made them?
     
  8. Jan 8, 2005
  9. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    Just in case you're not aware (although you probably are) you can check all your transactions at any Microgaming casino by going to cash-check (green $ sign) and selecting 'CashCheck statement' from the drop down menu.

    This will also give you all the transaction numbers etc that you may need.

    Good luck

    DD
     
  10. Jan 8, 2005
  11. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    Hi,
    Would it be different if I went to my local games outlet and bought 3 games at 5 each, but the store charged my credit card 4 lots of 4.50. It's obvious that theres been a failure between what was 'agreed' and what has actually been billed.

    Maybe I go and buy 10 seperate 10 items at the fruit&veg shop down the road, I wouldn't expect to see on my credit card bill 6*10 2*11 2*14 and 1*15 .... IT just doesn't happen!

    There is obviously a difference between 14 separate purchases of chips, and 15 transactions on the one card. It doesn't matter that there are multiple cards involved, the other transactions on the other cards 'tally up', what matters is I have been incorrectly billed, I'm just asking for the courtesy that it will be looked into, AND, IF a mistake has been made, it is rectified (if i am wrong, please explain why because I don't understand)

    In the same vien, It doesn't matter 'which' transactions are in error, I shouldn't have to 'prove' that a fault or error has occured, I should expect that as an aggrieved customer, my grieviance will be looked into and I'll be assured a resolution 'one way or the other' would be forth coming.

    But to be given the 'fob off' and 'run around' simply fuels the frustration.

    Why can't they just look at my casino purchases on the two casino accounts for the one credit card compared to the transactions they have billed on that card.

    I have been told that my account at the gamingclub has been locked because the query has been passed to 'risk assessment', Melanie, the nice lady I spoke to tonight said that 'risk assesment is akin to the fraud department. The fraud police (as she put it) have to make sure that fraud is not being committed........ By who (I don't need to say where the implication lay, but I am now left feeling like I am under scrutinisation.)?

    As far as I can ascertain from the conversation with Melanie, Risk assessment will first make enquiries as to whether I am trying to commit a crime against the casino, i.e. fraud.

    For the sake of 100 - 200 British pounds, I would 'risk' fraud!

    I wonder, do I have no option but to begin looking at a legal solution to this farce.
    14 chip purchases. 15 credit card transactions!

    This is so ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. Jan 8, 2005
  13. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Pete,

    Of course you are not required to 'prove' anything but wouldnt singling out the discrepancy help. Comparing your 14 transactions with the 15 charged,you should be able to spot the 'odd man' out unless there are many transactions of equal value on the same date. Even then,the scope could be narrowed. You understand the whole case but the casino will have to examine the whole thing bit by bit and this could prove time-consuming. Just let them know which is the faulty part and let them take care of the rest.
     
  14. Jan 8, 2005
  15. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    Just to reiterate

    Back around the 1st/2nd of December I checked my credit card transactions. This showed 15 transactions to OceanViewSA Luxembourg.
    11 transactions seemed ok,4 transactions bore no resemblance to purchases I had made on my casino accounts.
    (15/14)

    Over two casino accounts, I had made a TOTAL of 14 seperate chip purchases. (14 chip purchases on the credit card, 15 transactions on the statement)
    (15/14)

    Some of the transactions tally up - some don't.
    (15/14)

    I have pointed out to the casino group which transactions I am questioning.
    (15/14)

    I have been told that the group have forwarded my enquiry to what amounts to a fraud department.
    (15/14)

    Tell me how I can 'fraud' a casino when I have made 14 chip purchases and I have 15 transactions showing on my credit card statement for the casino group.

    If someone will host some images, I can show the two scanned pages of my credit card statement, and the cash check statement from theluckynugget!

    ...!!!
     
  16. Jan 8, 2005
  17. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    You know, it might help to think of this as their way making sure YOU weren't defrauded. A casino's security (or fraud) office is there not only for the casino, but the player as well.

    Is it the fact they call it the "fraud" department that's gotten you angry? Or have they out-and-out, point blank accused you of fraud?
     
  18. Jan 8, 2005
  19. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Hopefully it's just a precautionary measure they are taking against what they see as a potential chargeback.

    I don't really have any real good advice for you other than keep after them, make things as clear as you can, remain patient and don't act all crazy even though you want to strangle them, and, probably, justifiably.

    Ultimately, there's always eCOGRA, lucky for you.
     
  20. Jan 8, 2005
  21. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    I thought I could only 'complain' to 'ecogra' if I had an issue with fairness of the games! I've never once had an issue of whether they may cheat or not, i've played (with much fun) at bellerockgaming sites (and indeed micogaming in general) without the issue of unfairness being raised, All along I've stated i'm adamant an accounting mistake has been made..... It's the way it's been handled by bellerockgaming that has caused me concern!

    Pete.
     
  22. Jan 8, 2005
  23. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Pete, this sounds like a series of admin errors and misunderstandings to me. I've alerted a senior person in the casino group concerned. He's usually very fast on sorting out these sort of irritations and I am optimistic that this will be cleared up in the near future without further distress and acrimony.

    Keep this thread posted on progress, please.
     
  24. Jan 10, 2005
  25. bellerock

    bellerock Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    CSR Supervisor
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi Pete,

    Sorry to hear of the run-around you are getting. I will follow up on this immediately, and hopefully we will resolve the issue shortly. It does sound strange, and either a mistake has been made or there is a good explanation for the discrepancy, I will however find out and get back to you. Please can you PM your details to me in order for me to act on this ASAP.

    We do not have a "Fraud Department", but a department that deals with money-in and money-out issues which includes fraud, risk, money laundering issues, bank issues and the systems and mechanisms that are used to receive and pay out funds. The department is known as Systems and Services, but unfortunately is often referred to as the fraud department.

    Anyway, moving on, send me your details and I will have this resolved pronto.

    Best regards,


    Belle Rock
     
  26. Jan 11, 2005
  27. Pete

    Pete Dormant account

    Hello all,
    After Bellerock has intervened, a simple banking problem was uncovered!
    Bellerock has shown that on one particular day towards christmas, a transaction timed out, and although my card was billed, chips were not credited to my account. it was some days later that the chips were manually added to my account after the problem came tolight. (This I wouldn't see as a problem with bellerockgaming, more of a software glitch with MG, probably?), so I'll hold my hands up on two counts

    1.looks like I could have missed any message that showed a problem with the purchase
    2. I failed to notice the chips appeared at a later date.

    Simple as that!

    It transpires that manual adjustments in this way, much like bonuses, do not appear in cashcheck, so when 'totting up' the transactions on my card, obviously the chip purchases did not correspond, so I saw a problem! I did say I may be just as much to blame and if so, point the problem out, and at last, the issue has been resolved.

    I'd like to thank Bellerock for quickly taking the matter up and sorting this out for me.

    Mods, please close the post!

    Cheers
    Pete
     
  28. Jan 13, 2005
  29. bonustreak

    bonustreak Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Home Office
    No please do not close this post, gee the same thing has happened to me but with Neteller, I purchased $50 at Aces High they took out 95.90 !! I called Neteller and they say I have to contact this company as it was there error!

    So I have called and I have emailed no reply at all, I have asked to have all my accounts closed no reply, they asked for a transaction # and I supplied that as well, the answer to me was, we deposited the $50 you purchased into your casino account and Neteller must have timed out during the transaction.

    I am tired of going back and forth and they never reply to me anyway so what else can be done??
     
  30. Jan 13, 2005
  31. bellerock

    bellerock Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    CSR Supervisor
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi Vixen,

    Please PM your details to me, along with the dates and transaction numbers and I will follow up on this for you. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation as to what happened, but it sounds like the customer care was poor, and for that I apologize.

    Best regards,

    Belle Rock
     
  32. Jan 13, 2005
  33. bonustreak

    bonustreak Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Home Office
    ok I will gather that info now for you and send, thanks for the response and I wish all your staff were as friendly.
     
  34. Jan 17, 2005
  35. bellerock

    bellerock Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    CSR Supervisor
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi All,

    I just wanted to let you know that Vixen and I have been communicating, and that all issues have been resolved.

    Best regards,

    Belle Rock
     
  36. Jan 18, 2005
  37. bonustreak

    bonustreak Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Home Office
    Yup everything is all fixed! Thanks for the expert care btw! :thumbsup:
     

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