BELLEROCK - Fraudsters Beware

[Casinomeister]

Oh by the way cynowoo, how's yer Neteller account looking? Are you able to log in anymore? If not, perhaps Neteller found a few anomalies in your docs as well.

Care to give the members here a rundown on exactly what's up??

 

[Stanford]

This may be very significant since they player has sent me a copy of these documents, and I'm noticing a few things. This is one of the reasons the casino asked for a resubmital of these items. Again I have no idea why this player freaked so early.

But then maybe I do. And some of us should try not to jump to conclusions until some of these things are cleared up.

Fair enough, but do you have any idea why he is talking about a MAC address? Are casinos tracking the MAC address? And how would they get them?

Any thoughts on the Neteller issue Dom raised?

For those that don't know the MAC address is a unique identifier for communication devices (like modems and network cards) within one's Network. Unlike the IP address, they are not needed by websites.

Stanford

 

[Macgyver]

Changed my mind; this wasn't worth me posting since it's not that big of a detail to have post-worthy relevance ....

Ignore me.

 

[GrandMaster]

I have a hard time following this case. They started reviewing October 9th, I think. Is that right?

How long do they get?

BTW, the poster says he has a unique MAC address. Zone Alarm shields the MAC address and I think is the standard fire wall. I assume all firewalls do that. I hope this poster isn't surfing without a firewall. Presuming he has a firewall, how would MicroGaming Casinos have access to his MAC address?

I have heard one casino using SpyWare and it wasn't MicroGaming. I am somewhat curious about this MAC address business. I urge everyone to be running software to shut down spyware.

imho,
Stanford

Any piece of software running on your computer, e.g. a download casino, can read your MAC address regardless whether you have a firewall or anti-spyware software. I don't know about flash or Java casinos.

 

[Casinomeister]

Looks like we have another fraudster yanking our chains. Both Bellerock and Neteller have determined (and me as well) that the documents sent in were Photoshoped.

Casinos do not normally request a Neteller screenshot of an account history unless a player claims that a transaction was/wasn't made. This should not be a problem between a player and casino. But this doesn't apply to this case. Further, there doesn't seem to be a record of this but I could be wrong.

I spoke with Neteller this evening, and they do not provide priviliged information on their clients. For anyone to claim that they are, think again.

This is another example why many of us should not quickly jump to conclusions. Cynowoo, expect to be invoiced for the time and effort I spent dealing with this bullshit. And on holidays (like my birthday) I charge double. Question is, should I send this to the address on your Bank Statement? Or will that bounce?

PS: I know lawyers...

 

[Stanford]

Looks like we have another fraudster yanking our chains. Both Bellerock and Neteller have determined (and me as well) that the documents sent in were Photoshoped.

Casinos do not normally request a Neteller screenshot of an account history unless a player claims that a transaction was/wasn't made. This should not be a problem between a player and casino. But this doesn't apply to this case. Further, there doesn't seem to be a record of this but I could be wrong.

I spoke with Neteller this evening, and they do not provide priviliged information on their clients. For anyone to claim that they are, think again.

Sorry for the waste of your time by a fraudster.

I am still unclear what happened here. Why is neteller looking at a players documents submitted to the casino? Did the player make up a fictional ID and opened a Neteller account and then a fictional Casino account backed up by fake documents?

How would he fund such an account? I thought the Bank account and the Neteller account had to have the same person.

I am not sure what you are saying on the Neteller screenshot other than you are not sure it happened in this case.

I can't think of a reason of ever submitting a screen shot. Even if the casino misapplied the Neteller payment, a screen shot should not be necessary to prove the deposit was made. Neteller should simply supply the transaction detail.

Good work on exposing the fraud.

Stanford

 

[Casinomeister]

Neteller had conducted their own investigation separate from the casino, and it seems that there were red flags that went up when this player first opened his account a couple of months ago. As far as I know, the casino had detected fraud and contacted Neteller, which conducted their own investigation and came to the same conclusion.

I was able do make determinations on my own with the docs the player supplied me before Bellerock responded. Google searches can do wonders

What I am saying about the Neteller screenshot is that I'm not sure that the casino requested this. This could have been a ruse from the player to trash this casino in public. I asked earlier what this player's intent was. It is obvious to me that this player was going down, he knew it, and he tried to smear the casino as much as possible before going down. The casino requested the documents, and upon receipt they noticed some curious things. They made another request since there could have been a problem with the transmission quality. But with the second set, other things were discovered (I'm being vague purposely). At this time this went to another level of evaluation. This is where the player panicked (IMO).

I can't think of a reason of ever submitting a screen shot. Even if the casino misapplied the Neteller payment, a screen shot should not be necessary to prove the deposit was made. Neteller should simply supply the transaction detail.

I can't think of one either. If a player claims that the cashin was never made, then it would be a simple phone call to Neteller. I take a lot of these player claims with a grain of salt. Perhaps a casino would request this sort of thing to bypass contacting Neteller, but I don't see why.

If I had made a cashin at a casino, and it never came through but the casino claimed it did, I would volunteer a screen shot to proove it didn't come in. It really wouldn't make a difference to me since I wouldn't be revealing anything that would be secretive. If it did bother me, I'd pick up the phone and call NT.

But this is beside the point. Apparently this player has been less than truthful with this whole situation.

 

[Stanford]

Neteller had conducted their own investigation separate from the casino, and it seems that there were red flags that went up when this player first opened his account a couple of months ago...

Apparently this player has been less than truthful with this whole situation.

Well done CasinoMeister. I appreciate your response that helps educate us all. I was somewhat concerned about my asking you details about a case when you already had wasted time.

I really do appreciate the very thoughtful response.

Stanford

 

[bethug]

casinos like bellrock, inetbet, bodog and a few others are solid. When someone says they slow paying it hard for me to believe. They pay me with out questions and i know they pay others without question. If you try to cheat and get caught dont run here cause casinomeister will bust you out

 

[jpm]

What I am saying about the Neteller screenshot is that I'm not sure that the casino requested this. This could have been a ruse from the player to trash this casino in public. I asked earlier what this player's intent was.

Well I've had a large casino group request this of me before, even though I was a longtime member of their casino, so its definitely not unprecedented. But I refused them and filed a formal complaint with Neteller. The cashin was later processed without them getting the screenshot.

 

[jpm]

Fair enough, but do you have any idea why he is talking about a MAC address? Are casinos tracking the MAC address? And how would they get them?

Any thoughts on the Neteller issue Dom raised?

For those that don't know the MAC address is a unique identifier for communication devices (like modems and network cards) within one's Network. Unlike the IP address, they are not needed by websites.

Stanford

Even if you use a hard firewall, it will still have a MAC address that is visible to anyplace on the internet that you visit. And as GM said, casino programs running on your computer can and most likely do report back your machine's MAC address (and private IP address too in many cases).

 

[Stanford]

Even if you use a hard firewall, it will still have a MAC address that is visible to anyplace on the internet that you visit. And as GM said, casino programs running on your computer can and most likely do report back your machine's MAC address (and private IP address too in many cases).

Hi JPM,

While I think that IP address is normal, there is no reason to have my MAC address - although I understand some Spyware makes use of it.

Go here and you can run a test as to what can be seen. I run the MAC test and it says mine cannot be seen.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I will be curious as to any comments you or others have on this.

Grandmaster observes that the software itself may be reading personal data and sending it back to the casinos. Now this is a distressing thought. Maybe those casinos that monitor this site will have some comment or other players.

Stanford

 

[Casinomeister]

Cynowoo has failed to comment on this thread since yesterday, even though he is aware of its content.

Player banned for life unless he can convince me to do otherwise.

 

[bellerock]

Hi All,

Just a quick note to thank Bryan for dealing with this issue so quickly and fairly, and for giving us a chance to make our case before trashing us.

The lack of response was due to making sure that our facts were straight, and obviously to avoid revealing any confidential player information.

Thank you for your support everybody.

Best regards,

Belle Rock

 

[jpm]

Hi JPM,
While I think that IP address is normal, there is no reason to have my MAC address - although I understand some Spyware makes use of it.
Stanford

I don't think spyware actually bothers with your MAC address, but casinos would have a good reason for recording this info. Since it is a 'unique' number, it can be a sort of fingerprint. Since most casino software runs on your computer directly and not thru a browser, it can access the machine's MAC address directly and report it back to the casino. One that I believe does this and shows you on the screen what its reporting is Intercasino's poker program. The could also see your computer name and other such info, and more if they wanted to, like cpu type & speed, ram, HD size, etc. etc. Basically you have to be trusting that they are not peeking into more info than they need to know.

 

[dominique]

Well I've had a large casino group request this of me before, even though I was a longtime member of their casino, so its definitely not unprecedented. But I refused them and filed a formal complaint with Neteller. The cashin was later processed without them getting the screenshot.

Me too. This did happen to me also - it was a large casino group and I was a member for around 3 years but hadn't played in a long time.

I also refused, but filed no complaint and was eventually paid when they were sure who I was.

I would very much mind showing anyone a screenshot of my neteller. I will not do it or allow it to be done. If someone wants neteller to tell them if a certain deposit was made - I have no problem with that.

Kudos for exposing this guy, Bryan. Good work.

I am just afraid that people who play this game with casinos less reputable than Bellerock may undergo less scrutiny and get away with it.

Too bad there are dishonest parties in all casino related groups ( i.e. casinos, affiliates, affiliate programs, players.) I guess that will never change.

 

[jpm]

The reason I filed the formal complaint was because they were refusing to process my withdrawl until I gave them a screenshot showing the source of my Neteller deposits. Clearly not their business. When I asked, what if I used a bank account to deposit, they then said they'd want to see those statements too. And they already knew who I was and had payed cashins of that size (like $100) several times in the past. It was clearly security run wild, but the absolute refusal to give me my money without that information was what pushed me over the edge.

 

[dominique]

That is too bad and I really am against that practise.

With me they gave in when they realized I was dominique from gamesandcasino. They were not aware of that, and I usually don't tell them because if I did my testing a casino would be worthless.

I really have no idea why they did that to me - I was playing all kinds of games for a long time and made a couple of deposits and finally hit a royal.

I hate this whole security thing - but, this thread bears witness that it is needed.