Bella Vegas - bonus confusion and trickery

[caruso]

Blimey, Bryan, I was parodying light-heartedly based on her performance in the Lake Palace affair, for the same player. I daresay she's learnt from her mistakes and is now doing the job as required - as would appear to be the case from this.

No need to explode like that, jeez. It's hardly a big deal.

 

[Casinomeister]

Blimey, Bryan, I was parodying light-heartedly based on her performance in the Lake Palace affair, for the same player. I daresay she's learnt from her mistakes and is now doing the job as required - as would appear to be the case from this.

No need to explode like that, jeez. It's hardly a big deal.

Drill Sergeant flashback - sorry.

You should have added a smiley to diffuse what may appear as caustic criticism. I was only reminded of some of the comments made last winter. And simply put, you don't mess with "Tex". At least not here.

I'll take off my DS hat now.

 

[spearmaster]

Caruso, in my not-so-humble opinion that was out of line - and I made up my mind even before I read Meister's comments below your post.

Dirk - as expected, you got what you were entitled to.

 

[jetset]

QUOTE: Dirk - as expected, you got what you were entitled to. UNQUOTE

And that's the real bottom line - complaint made, dealt with and fairly paid. I'm not sure how long the process took in this particular case, but I'd bet it was faster than most. Tex is on the ball.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

As it was a bank holiday in the UK on Monday she didn't even get the email till Tuesday morning (sent Friday evening), so a two day turnaround from receipt is undoubtedly excellent.

 

[Vesuvio]

I'm amazed you had to escalate this to eCogra as it's possibly the most obvious case of a casino being in the wrong imaginable, but after having exactly the same issue I know how stubborn they can be. Glad it worked out ok in the end!

The main contention with this group is still their confusing bonus terms and the hidden traps they recently introduced, probably managing to catch out most of their regular players in the process. By now almost all of those must be aware of the changes, but the VIPER casinos in the group still haven't decided to provide useful t&cs links in their promotional e-mails. It can be done as Fortune Junction & JackPot Wheel have shown: this is one of the t&cs links in their e-mails: Outdated URL (Invalid)

Note they've taken all the advice given in this thread :notworthy Come on Lake Palace, Bella Vegas, Jupiter Club & Grand Bay (this is typical of their links: Outdated URL (Invalid))

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The Fortune Junction terms you listed aren't much better if you ask me, they contradict each other massively.

Be online on Monday 30th May 2005, make a purchase of $50 or more, wager your purchase in full with a minimum of $50 wagered in any slots game and get an EXTRA 25% up to $100 FREE!

The Balance of your purchase can be wagered in any game.

Your bonus will be credited on Tuesday 31st May 2005, by midnight (EST).

In order to qualify for the promotional credit you must wager your purchase in full with the minimum amount required in Slots or Keno only.

All forms of Video poker, all forms of Table Poker, craps, roulette, Baccarat, Black jack, Sicbo, Progressive-Poker Ride, Paigow Poker, Cyber stud Poker, Table 3 card poker are all excluded and do not count toward fulfilling your promotional obligation.

Personally to me the opening two sentances mean I can deposit $400, wager $50 on slots and $350 (to total $400) on any game I wish and receive a $100 bonus.

They then contradict this with the next line stating it must be wagered in full on slots or keno, and then further contradict it with listing excluding games and missing poker pursuit out.

Clear as mud isn't it?

Why they don't just simply state that the only games that count towards any promotions are slots and keno if that's what they wish (which seems to be the case) is beyond me.

Absolutely no need making four contradictng sentences when the one straight forward sentance would end all confusion, that is unless they want confused players to deposit and in effect be ripped off.

I'm amazed that their terms still haven't changed for their download casinos - it means that they still have no right to refuse bonuses to players who play Poker Pursuit. I'm actually half tempted to test them to se if they still claim it's a form of Video Poker.

 

[Vesuvio]

Lol, you're right! I think my mind must have switched itself off while reading to protect against short-circuiting

At least you can see some attempt at collecting the key terms together to explain the promotion. I'm not sure whether to assume their promotional/CS staff are completely clueless or else playing a clever game. Either way it'll cost players money and wasted time.

Personally I wouldn't hold back from playing poker pursuit or other games as long as their terms allow them. If they complain you'll win in the end as it's not that often you get to have a 100% watertight case when arguing with casinos

 

[Vesuvio]

Just another example of how confusing this group has become. An e-mail from Grand Bay has this in the main text:

Make a purchase of $20 or more on Saturday, 4 June 2005, between 6pm and midnight (EST) and you are guaranteed to receive 25% up to $50 ABSOLUTELY FREE!

"guaranteed"

&

If you wager your purchase in any slot game, we will DOUBLE YOUR BONUS!!
Yes! You will get a fabulous 50% up to $100 FREE!

If you click the terms and conditions link in the e-mail you get:

Make a purchase of $20 or more on Saturday, 4 June 2005, between 6pm and midnight (EST) and you are GUARANTEED to receive 25% up to $50 ABSOLUTELY FREE!

Wager $20 or more in any slots game and you will get 50% up to $100 ABSOLUTELY FREE!

Your bonus will be credited on Sunday, 5 June 2005, by midnight (EST).

All Casino Grand Bay's normal terms & conditions apply.
This promotion is open to REAL PLAYERS @ CASINO GRAND BAY.

So... if you deposit $200 and wager it in any game (?) you'll get $50. But then if you wager $20 on slots you'll get $100. Or you have to wager $200 on slots

Oh, and then you probably need to refer to their general terms to see which games other than slots you can play. I'd defy anyone to make much of these, but they include:

4. ALL COMPETITIONS AND PROMOTIONS

Craps, Roulette, Baccarat, Sicbo, Progressive-Poker Ride, Cyberstud Poker, Paigow Poker, Table 3 card Poker, all forms of Blackjack and all forms of Video Poker are specifically excluded from counting towards meeting the minimum wagering requirements.

Please note that with respect to all competitions and promotions any reference to ALL GAMES will be taken as ALL GAMES excluding Craps, Roulette, Baccarat, Sicbo, Progressive-Poker Ride, Cyberstud Poker, Paigow Poker, Table 3 card Poker, all forms of Blackjack and all forms of Video Poker.[ ]

& this, seemingly contradicting how you should wager the minimum purchase (is e.g. 3 card poker ok or not?) - though perhaps this takes preference as it specifically mentions the minimum purchase!?

5. ALL PROMOTIONS AND BONUSES
For all promotions excluding the welcome purchase bonus, the stipulated minimum purchase amount made by the customer cannot be wagered in all forms of : craps, roulette, baccarat, blackjack and video poker in order to receive the bonus.

In any case there's always this hidden sting in the tail:

In order to qualify for subsequent bonuses, the client would need to make a minimum purchase of $20 between the last bonus credited to their casino account and the date of their application for the next bonus offer.

I don't actually expect anyone to try and work out how you're supposed to play this promotion ( ), but it shows the problem. You'd think they might simply explain the standard promos correctly instead of continually altering them - the slots alternative(?), for instance, is new.

 

[trade]

uhhh....

Count me out until they fire their promotional team. In response to my email that I asked them to close my account, they gave me a $200 bonus, which, I lost without too much trouble. (How do you guys do it??) I don't plan on going back unless the wild joker makes a significant deposit into my account!!

 

[Vesuvio]

Just a heads-up that the terms here have had another face-lift. The intro's quite funny (for various reasons):

In the interests of clarity, good governance and creating a gaming experience that is both fair and beneficial to all parties involved, we ask players to please read through these carefully.

Also please keep in mind that these terms and conditions may change from time to time. It is in the Player's best interest to regularly check for any changes. The terms and conditions are clearly defined in two sections: General Terms and Conditions and Promotional-bonus Terms and Conditions.

Link Removed (invalid URL)

If you try and cut and paste the above you get a pop-up about not stealing intellectual property

You can see some sort of attempt to make it clearer (or at least to be seen to do so - note "clarity" & "clearly"), but on the whole I think the new terms are just as mind-boggling as ever. Anyone considering one of the offers will need to wade through them, though. Depositing between offers seems to have gone but it's probably only slots or keno at all times, so not very appealing.

 

[Sebastian]

I've given their T&C a close look too ;-) I notice that there are subsections for New and Existing players (under Promo T&C)- clicking on them takes you straight to the promo's etc applicable to each type of player. Much faster - in my opinion . . . but, alas, it's only an opinion.

 

[Vesuvio]

I've given their T&C a close look too ;-) I notice that there are subsections for New and Existing players (under Promo T&C)- clicking on them takes you straight to the promo's etc applicable to each type of player. Much faster - in my opinion . . . but, alas, it's only an opinion.

The cynic in me wonders if you didn't write them, but I couldn't work out if these casinos are based in South Africa (how about an "about us" page?)

If you tried what you said... you'd see "New Players": "Additional Purchase Bonus promotions" links to the same terms as "Existing Players": "Special Bonus Promotions". "Additional Purchase Bonus promotions" for "Existing Players" currently links to nothing So when a player gets the promotional e-mails you're sending out at the moment and reads "all standard terms and conditions apply" he has no idea what terms apply to that promotion, as it won't be a "signature offer", whatever that might be, as they only seem to be claimable within 72 hours of signing up to the casino...

Wouldn't the sensible solution be to include all the relevant terms in the "terms and conditions" link on the promotional e-mails you send out? At the moment there's just an annoying link telling players to waste their time trying to make some sense of your terms and conditions pages, intellectually challenging as that may be.

p.s. apologies if you don't work for them! I used to really like these casinos so I can almost imagine someone's first post being to defend them, though I have my doubts

 

[Sebastian]

Hiya. I don't work for them, but I know them well. I see what you say by the way and its a very valid point. I think the problems with all casino's and their respective T&C lies in protecting themselves against syndicates, while simultaniously appeasing players.

Most likely makes things more complicated than it should be. Either way, I hope they sort it out soon

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Well just had a look at the New T&Cs, looked under 'EXISTING PLAYERS' (seeing as I am) and clicked on 'Additional Purchase Bonus Promotions' (seeing as these are what they usually offer) and got this:

EXISTING BELLA VEGAS PLAYERS:
Additional Purchase Promotions:

WATCH THIS SPACE FOR FUTURE OFFERS

Back to Top

So it looks like I can do what the hell I want with these promotions

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Exactly the same listed in Grand Bay's promotional T&Cs:

3.b. Additional Purchase Bonus Promotions

!! WATCH THIS SPACE FOR FUTURE OFFERS !!

Back to Top

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a heads-up that the terms here have had another face-lift. The intro's quite funny (for various reasons):

Link Removed (invalid URL)

If you try and cut and paste the above you get a pop-up about not stealing intellectual property

Oh, so we can't do this then?
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In the interests of clarity, good governance and creating a gaming experience that is both fair and beneficial to all parties involved, we ask players to please read through these carefully.
Also please keep in mind that these terms and conditions may change from time to time. It is in the Player's best interest to regularly check for any changes. The terms and conditions are clearly defined below.
Please click on the links provided and enjoy your gaming experience, with BELLA VEGAS ONLINE.

If you haven't registered yet, please click here to register or speak to our friendly support staff here
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