Before I PAB - Club World

hippo925

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Location
so cal
Not when it comes to letting you slag off the site with gross over-generalizations and sniping innuendo, no. You're not talking about "free and open discussion", you're calling for "free and open season" on what CM does and how it's done. Not welcome and it won't be tolerated.

I've always appreciated and admired your dedication to this site AND all the things you do. On that note, your defense of this site and CM is currently misplaced when you direct it at me. If someone brings up a topic, questions a matter, even if it's not in the tone or tact that you would like it to be in...it doesn't equate to all the things you are accusing me of. Honestly, a bit over the top... though it is really obvious that you are dedicated to what you do.

My statement regarding a "free and open discussion" had nothing to do with you and me as we have both given each other the respect of a dialogue... but more with the implication that others will not join in this discussion because of fear or the negative atmosphere that was created. You simply cannot equate every negative statement as an attack on this site and respond with such zeal that you would think you were bing attacked by pitchforks or something.

Negative posts, sarcasm, calls for action, etc..... An accredited casino will be able to deal with those situations because.... well, they are accredited. If someone is way out there, i'm sure the forum, members and moderators... will be able to call it out for what it is.

and i certainly would also appreciate a calmer dialogue... before we get "shushed" again... it's embarassing to get "shushed."
 

hippo925

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Location
so cal
Whatever ... :rolleyes: ... I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't here so I'll opt for "don't".

[/derail]

It means we were both equally frustrated because i was feeling the same way....:D

Sorry to the OP....if there are any further discussions on this matter i'll look forward to reading them. And i do applaud clubworld for addressing some of the issues and hope they continue to consider the players opinions on issues that may not have been resolved yet.
 

osulle

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
In my head
CWC500

I wouldn't call it false advertising, does sound like a snafu though. Here's what I'm seeing (see below). The 'More Information' link doesn't take you anywhere useful, nothing said about CWC500 at the Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) page.

I'll flag the rep, see if they can clarify this for us.

I noticed this special promotion about two months ago. I got all excited when I saw the great promotion. I contacted CS to ask them about the validity of the coupon before I deposited. I was told the same thing. That was a huge downer for me.
I felt that invalid coupon codes ought not to be listed on the site since it is misleading to players especially those that are new to online gambling.
In my opinion I think that this "special promotion" is on the site to draw players in and some may not click on it and deposit thinking that they were going to redeem it and then find it invalid. I said this to the CS Rep. I also pointed out that if the code is not valid then they should take it off since the site is updated regularly (since they change their promotions weekly). I also stated that this was not the type of thing I would expect from a reputable accredited casino. After a little back and forth talk with the rep I wanted to bang my head against a brick wall because I felt that would have been more productive. The CS just kept repeating that the coupon is valid from time to time (translate that to rare if at all) and acted like I, the customer was at fault for believing that a coupon code listed on the site would be valid! I found the CS rep to be very condesending.

Eventually I was told that they would look into correcting the issue with this coupon however I see that went nowhere. I agree it may be a snafu however it has been up on the site for quite a while and they had plenty of time to clarify that it is only available on rare occasions.

Frankly this situation has left a bad taste in my mouth and I have been reluctant in spending money at CW since. Not because I did not get the 300% bonus but because I lost some trust in the casino. This issue should have been addressed by CW before now and it should not have to take any involvement on Casinomeisters part in order to get the casino to look more closely.
 
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WagerWitch

Dormant account
webmeister
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Alaska
With the BLUE GLOVES in the RIGHT Corner and the RED GLOVES in the LEFT CORNER...

Yes...

Clubworld needs to fix their page so that people understand EVERYTHING and TRANSPARENCY is there.

But - yelling about it - and showering disgust on the situation isn't going to help.

Clubworld has shown to be a standup place - IT MIGHT BE IN THE PLAYER'S BEST INTERESTS to maybe ask - help out - and point out - instead of pointing fingers and accusing with arguments.


RIGHT?

I mean - come on - when have they not complied and agreed and listened?

HMMM?

They may not do it YOUR way - but they ARE willing to listen - and they are willing to test things out - and work with people - RIGHT?
GLOVES IN YOUR CORNER....

So there - NEENER NEENER NEENER...

Y'all here's the MUTUAL WHITE TOWEL - both of ya grab it - and kiss and make up.

*KISS*
 
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osulle

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
In my head
Maybe it is because I've played there and know how their promotions work but I don't see how it is confusing, it is listed under special promotions and says to not miss it when they are running, nothing about being available all the time.
A new customer who has never played at Club World before could easily get suckered in by the "special promotions". Lets say a new customer wanted to deposit $75 and then they see this promotion and decide to deposit $150 because that is what the promo said. Now the customer had deposited more money and go to redeem a code they find is invalid and have to go with a coupon of much lesser value. This is misleading to me and I would have fallen for it if I had not spent quite a lot of time at casinomeister web site prior to seeing the promo.
 

WagerWitch

Dormant account
webmeister
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Alaska
A new customer who has never played at Club World before could easily get suckered in by the "special promotions". Lets say a new customer wanted to deposit $75 and then they see this promotion and decide to deposit $150 because that is what the promo said. Now the customer had deposited more money and go to redeem a code they find is invalid and have to go with a coupon of much lesser value. This is misleading to me and I would have fallen for it if I had not spent quite a lot of time at casinomeister web site prior to seeing the promo.


AGAIN - I could be ABSOLUTELY wrong - but a person MUST put in the coupon code BEFORE depositing.

RIGHT?

I mean - You don't deposit if you REALLY want that coupon - and you can't get it.

At least that is how I operate.
 

osulle

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
In my head
AGAIN - I could be ABSOLUTELY wrong - but a person MUST put in the coupon code BEFORE depositing.

RIGHT?

I mean - You don't deposit if you REALLY want that coupon - and you can't get it.

At least that is how I operate.
Some RTG casinos require you to enter the code prior to depositing and others require it after so it is easy to make the error of depositing before claiming a promotion. Its been a while since I played at Club World so I can't remeber how they do it. I will probably take advantage of the coupon code: 150CWC500 this weekend however I will be checking with CS before I deposit to make sure I do it correctly.
 

WagerWitch

Dormant account
webmeister
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Alaska
Some RTG casinos require you to enter the code prior to depositing and others require it after so it is easy to make the error of depositing before claiming a promotion. Its been a while since I played at Club World so I can't remeber how they do it. I will probably take advantage of the coupon code: 150CWC500 this weekend however I will be checking with CS before I deposit to make sure I do it correctly.

CWC is a BEFORE you deposit thing...

Just FYI.
 

DiamondGeezer

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
PABnononaccred2
Joined
May 12, 2007
Location
NOT Pennsylvania!!!
This seems a very trivial matter to waste six pages on. It's the sort of thing that gives players a bad name.

A polite pm to the casino rep would have been far more effective than all this hot air. I'm sure CWC, Max and Bryan have much better things to do than read all this :rolleyes:
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
DiamondGeezer and WagerWitch, I agree with you. While I have had some issues with CW, personal not related to specific stuff, I have found them to be very transparent. I guess I missed the problems with the bonus codes. I open the promotions page on the casino, check out what's happening and decide what I want to use. If I have a question, I always ask before. As for the 300% deposit bonus, I got it too and if I remember correctly, it was discussed here that it was a mistake, sent out to some that shouldn't have received it. I got it, talked to chat and resolved questions before trying to use it.

I guess I just don't see where the problems comes from.

As for being bonus banned, heck I am actually banned from most Rivals and have never been told why. So, I just ash can them and move on. Lots more to choose from. :D
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi All,

OK, this thread has raised a few issues I hope I can address them all:

Special Promotions Page

We have a range of special promotions and events that we run from time to time in the casino. We provide details of these events on the special promotions page of our website so that our players know what they can expect and what they should be looking out for in their emails and on the promotions schedule.

I realise that although the wording that explains this was at the top of the page it was quite small and not terribly clear so I have updated the special promotions page to improve this.

These events are open to everyone except the very small minority of players who have been restricted from claiming any of the promotions in our casinos, which leads me onto...

Bonus Statuses

We do restrict the bonuses available to certain players to the Continual Bonuses only. The algorithm we use to identify accounts that may require restricting looks at a wide range of factors and only a tiny proportion of our players are affected.

As you will have guessed VWM has had his account restricted in this way and is not terribly happy about it. While I cannot post details from his account in a public forum I can let you know that this is not the result of a single big win.

I have noticed that a lot of the more vigorous posts in this thread are coming from players who have been restricted from claiming promotions. I realise that this has cut off a source of income and therefore there will be some bitterness involved, but we play this as fairly as we can paying the balance in full before restricting access to further promotions.

If any of you feel that you have been restricted from claiming bonuses in error just PM me your username and I will review the situation.

Feedback

I do welcome feedback from the player community, especially the CasinoMeister regulars. This does need to be constructive however. Just calling me a liar and pointing out how rubbish you think we are does not help anyone.

You guys have been around this industry for a long time and I value your opinions so it is a shame when the opportunity to make improvements is lost amongst fruitless arguing.

Regards
Tom

Well, this looks like our answer. The algorithm looks for what other casinos might call "bonus abuse". The problem is that this accusation has been so intertwined with "player fraud" by the industry that it is a VERY NEGATIVE thing indeed to "restrict" a player's availabilty to redeem promotions. It gives the player the feeling that they have not "played fairly", and are thus being punished by the casino. Naturally, this can lead to negative sentiment since whilst "everybody else" is being showered with the comps, THEY are being given "second class" treatment.

The answer is to CELEBRATE those players who are so good at playing that they no longer need the help of promotions, make them feel they have won that thing called "kudos", and then they can wear it as a badge of honour that THEY are better than the rest, and have "beaten the house" at their own game.
We all know that bonuses are an income generator FOR THE CASINOS, except for the few "loss leader" bonuses used to entice new players to sign up.
I would have felt better if the rep had said it WAS down to me winning that I was dropped from the list, rather than me having done something "wrong", which they usually cannot disclose.

What I find odd though, is that I am now being invited to try the OTHER Club World casinos. Surely it is completely daft to consider me too good for bonuses at Club World, yet start enticing me to sign up at the other two with the "loss leader" welcome bonus, plus the fact that any algorithm they are using will NOT be aware of any play at the original Club World casino.

Look at CWC500 - $150 for $500, looks pretty good, till you see it is SLOTS ONLY, and 45x D+B, and PHANTOM - this just keeps you playing longer, and it is merely LUCK that lets you beat these types of bonuses.


Incidentally, my play at Club World has been SLOTS ONLY this year, and since the first time I got "bonus banned", I have steered clear of games like 3 card poker, vegas rummey, and stud poker (where there IS an element of skill, and where I believe I earned my first bonus ban).

This algorithm clearly believes the SLOTS can be beaten if the general promotional bonuses are taken into account, but CANNOT be beaten with access only to the continuous bonus, which I believe is 35% on all deposits. This idea that SLOTS can be beaten, even with bonuses, has come as quite a surprise to many players (provided the bonus has sufficient WR to balance against the RTP of the slots). It is hard to accept that this is nothing more than a casino bonus banning players simply because they have been lucky at slots. When WE have questioned CASINOS about seemingly long periods of BAD luck on the slots, we are told it is all down to luck, we have had an unusually bad run - but it was nevertheless within expected parameters...etc.

I, however, have had a GOOD run at Club World, on SLOTS, yet this is now something the algorithm has picked out, and has considered NOT to be within "expected ranges", but something that means the promotions "provide a source of income", and therefore need to be restricted, otherwise I will continue to make a steady income by playing the slots promos, and will, in effect, beat the slots over the LONG TERM. Surely this is nothing more than the "gambler's fallacy" in reverse. In players, leading them to "chase" a badly paying game in the belief that it must pay back the excess it has taken in, and WILL if enough has been fed into it. In operators, it seems to make them fear that minority of players that have been unusually lucky, making them believe that this luck is a "force" associated with that player, and not something that is merely a manifestation of the laws of probability.

In short, I firmly believe that my bonus ban is SOLELY to do with me having won at the casino, my withdrawals having exceeded my deposits over the lifetime of my account. Nothing really wrong in that, except getting a casino to ADMIT this is like getting blood out of a stone - I know, I have tried, and SUCCEEDED by being persistent, in extracting such an admission from a couple of casinos.

If this is the case, I am considered to be too skilled for the promotional program. The thing is, Lauren has started emailing me again:confused: First was the September newsletter, and this was followed by a mailer telling me that there was a program of promotions coming up, detailed on the website.


Incidentally, Club World is the ONLY RTG casino that thinks me too skilled for the bonuses, and as far as I am concerned, this is a discussion of WHY this small minority of players, seemingly at random, get "bonus banned" from one casino or another. It is certainly bad press for a casino to "bonus ban" players that have done nothing wrong, so it has to be thought that the risk of bad publicity is worth it when set against the risk of not running any kind of algorithm to check accounts that need to be restricted.

When players like myself get "bonus banned", it makes us worry that there is some wrong information held about us somewhere, which is somehow making us look "suspicious" - it might be a wrongful association with other players who have done something more serious, such as using fake details to open accounts. The problem here is that if this is shared between other casinos, we could end up at one that does NOT pay up and then remove us from the list, but denies payment altogether.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Club World, I am not a current patron of your casino.

That you address the time frame issue is a great thing. That your CS's are not totally aware of how your bonus structure works does not impress me.

If offers are by email invitation only, your website should indicate something along the lines of "If you acheive this status, you will be invited to participate in some of the following exciting offers."

Players that come and see an promotion on your general web pages should receive that offer.

I've been a member here for over a year, and not joined Club World. I have little doubt you pay, in a timely manner. But issues like this (and not the first one of this ilk) have not led me to join.

It does seem like many players are loyal supporters. But the bottom line of most businesses is attracting more new and profitable customers, and while players will accept many things, confusion over what should be straightforward issues is not one of them for most people. There are a lot of choices in this online marketplace.

Clubworld, I do believe you are one of the good guys in the online gaming world, but it does not mean you don't need improvement.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I really hate seeing an outstanding operation getting beat up over what many considered to be a snafu, and their unwillingness to offer certain bonuses to a very small percentage of players.

I'm still amazed the importance some players place on bonuses. I - like many others - rarely if ever play bonuses. A bonus is only "free" money that obligates you to a massive play through requirement. Where is the sense in that? But if that's what blows your skirt up, well good luck :p

Some of you players should try a month or two of non-bonus play just to see how well you'd do. That would be interesting.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Bryan,

This is issue is not all about bonuses but rather the casino's handling of information to the players. Why should CW not clear up the mess by marketing the promos on the site so that everyone can understand. I myself was under the impression that the promos stated on the official site could be used by all only to be told in live chat that I must go to a designated promo area which listed the promos for me at that time.

I dont think we are condemning this casino but when we see scope for improvement we say it here given the attention that so many casinos pay to this forum. If the casinos listen, fine. If not, whether this will have an adverse effect on them, nobody knows. Many players love bonuses because they want to be entertained for a longer period and there is a feeling that huge bonuses enable you to withstand high variance since you get a much bigger bankroll to start with. Whether this will be able to counter the hefty wagering requirements attached to the bonuses is anyone's guess.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Bryan,

This is issue is not all about bonuses but rather the casino's handling of information to the players. Why should CW not clear up the mess by marketing the promos on the site so that everyone can understand. I myself was under the impression that the promos stated on the official site could be used by all only to be told in live chat that I must go to a designated promo area which listed the promos for me at that time.

I dont think we are condemning this casino but when we see scope for improvement we say it here given the attention that so many casinos pay to this forum. If the casinos listen, fine. If not, whether this will have an adverse effect on them, nobody knows. Many players love bonuses because they want to be entertained for a longer period and there is a feeling that huge bonuses enable you to withstand high variance since you get a much bigger bankroll to start with. Whether this will be able to counter the hefty wagering requirements attached to the bonuses is anyone's guess.

Don't get me wrong, there have been some very good points raised in this thread, and I hope that CW can use some of these criticisms to improve their site and promotions program. :thumbsup:

But please don't forget that this thread started off as a bashing session which (IMO) was uncool.
 

hippo925

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Location
so cal
My view also is that this issue has less to do with bonuses and more to do with clarity of information on the website. This topic could easily have been about statements regarding cashout times, privacy protection issues, or even free toasters, etc.

My concern was that because clubworld is an accredited casino, misleading / unclear statements should be addressed quickly and efficienlty.

A new player may feel he experienced false advertising / misleading terms. Upon searching for info about a particular casino, hopefully, it would lead that player here. My point was that this potential new member to our forum would see that an accredited casino was allowed to do, in his / her view and experience, things that may be considered misleading. Now... this player will not undertand the value and importance of accredited casinos as we understand it and they may question the value of it.

WE know the value of being accredited and i think we would want newcomers to have the same faith. Accredited casinos are held to a higher standard, as it should be, and i think new and potential members would appreciate that these matters are addressed.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
...My concern was that because clubworld is an accredited casino, misleading / unclear statements should be addressed quickly and efficienlty...
And if you had earlier expressed yourself in the above manner, Max and I wouldn't have gotten so defensive and this thread wouldn't have been argumentative. :D

My concern is the same - and the casino proves again to be responsive. They need feedback, and we've given it to them.
 

gambblex

Expanding Wild
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Location
UA
Some of you players should try a month or two of non-bonus play just to see how well you'd do. That would be interesting.


Totally agree!!:notworthy

At the same time-today I woke up and realized that BONUSES made online gambling online gambling

No bonuses=no deposits

If casinos will not give bonuses, the number of players and deposits will decrease trrrrremendously me thinks


.....................................................................
And what's the problem?

If casino finds it's better to disappoint every bonus lover -great!

Management decision is final as we know:lolup:
 
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