Bad news from the UK

[jetset]

CREDIT CARD FEES FOR UK GAMBLERS?

Gambling transactions to be treated as cash withdrawals

Barclaycard will be imposing new fees on UK punters who place bets through their credit cards reports ThisIsMoney.co.uk.

Bet transactions, which currently attract no charges, will reportedly be treated as cash withdrawals from May, 28 attracting a 2.99 percent fee on the wager amount.

 

[Simmo!]

Is that just credit cards Jetset or does it include debit cards?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Is that just credit cards Jetset or does it include debit cards?

Not much information on the story itself I'm afraid:

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This will change the way I play as I have a 'gambling card' (admittedly not a Barclaycard) that I simply pay the same amount to from my bank account as the amount I am depositing at any casino. (That way I never pay any interest.)

When I have winnings on it I just fill the car with petrol or buy shopping with it, unless it's a nice wedge in which case I buy a treat

If Barclaycard are doing this then I'm sure the others will follow.

Still, I'm in the process of getting Moneybookers sorted out anyway, as 3Dice can't process withdrawals to Mastercards which is what my 'gambling card' is - so I'll probably just move over completely to Moneybookers for all casinos.

 

[KasinoKing]

I've been paying fees for years on the rare occasions I use my Visa credit cards; It's usually £3 (which I assume is the minimum), both with Lloyds and Nationwide.
With my Debit Card there aren't any fees.

KK

 

[sattty]

dont think they can charge fees for debit cards...as a debit card transaction is cash from ur bank account and not an advance of cash from a credit card...

 

[me_and_ed]

There have been cash advance fees for gaming transactions with cc's in Canada since I can remember.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So what's the preferred method of depositing and withdrawing generally speaking?

I've always just deposited and withdrawn using a CC.

 

[KasinoKing]

So what's the preferred method of depositing and withdrawing generally speaking?

I've always just deposited and withdrawn using a CC.

My preferred method is Neteller. Not only is it very fast and with no fees (from the casino), it also keeps my "Gambling Money" separate from my normal banking account.
But I set my Neteller account up many years ago when nearly all casinos were in $US only - so it's a $US account.
If I am playing at a casino in £UK I use my Debit Card (free), because to use Neteller would incur fees and a bad exchange rate.

KK

 

[Simmo!]

But I set my Neteller account up many years ago when nearly all casinos were in $US only - so it's a $US account.
If I am playing at a casino in £UK I use my Debit Card (free), because to use Neteller would incur fees and a bad exchange rate.

KK

Have a word with them. They recently allowed me to set up a second account in a different currency.

 

[KasinoKing]

Have a word with them. They recently allowed me to set up a second account in a different currency.

Yes, I know I could do that, but I'm quite happy to use my Debit Card as it's from a different bank to our "regular household" one, so it's all completely separate from wages & bill paying

KK

 

[Seventh777]

I cannot believe that Chopley an Isle of Man resident doesn`t have a Neteller account, shame on you Chopley .

 

[vinylweatherman]

I got this update with my latest statement. Barclaycard have been the only card I know NOT to have written to me to inform me of such a change. They have now fallen in line with the bulk of card issuers. In fact, Barclaycard now charge the highest fees of all, 2.99% fee PLUS 30% APR interest from the transaction date. Other cards don't charge the fee, only the interest, for gambling transactions.

My Barclaycard will be phased out (by me) between now and May 28th. It'll be Neteller and debit cards only after that. I have had trouble with debit cards blocking gambling transactions over £100, which I didn't have with Barclaycard.

For those "Neteller hating" casinos, I no longer have the credit card option, and the debit card option may cause problems. This will apply to the UK market in general soon, as with Barclaycard caving in, any remaining credit card issuers are likely to follow so that all end up treating gambling transactions as cash advances.

The government are not entirely happy with credit cards being used so freely for gambling, so it is possible that card companies have done this to avoid the goverment imposing some kind of "red tape" on the banks with regard to gambling with credit.

In the long term, this move will save many gamblers from running up expensive Barclaycard debts by depositing so much, so can be a positive move overall, despite the inconvenience to many.

 

[conker]

I am suprised they haven't done this sooner, as its a pretty easy way to make money. Gamblers may grumble, but at the end of the day they will pay it because they want to bet. My biggest gripe with Neteller is the £5 withdrawal charge, which I think is just a bit too much. I prefer to use MB where is is available.

 

[jetset]

I got this update with my latest statement. Barclaycard have been the only card I know NOT to have written to me to inform me of such a change. They have now fallen in line with the bulk of card issuers. In fact, Barclaycard now charge the highest fees of all, 2.99% fee PLUS 30% APR interest from the transaction date. Other cards don't charge the fee, only the interest, for gambling transactions.

My Barclaycard will be phased out (by me) between now and May 28th. It'll be Neteller and debit cards only after that. I have had trouble with debit cards blocking gambling transactions over £100, which I didn't have with Barclaycard.

For those "Neteller hating" casinos, I no longer have the credit card option, and the debit card option may cause problems. This will apply to the UK market in general soon, as with Barclaycard caving in, any remaining credit card issuers are likely to follow so that all end up treating gambling transactions as cash advances.

The government are not entirely happy with credit cards being used so freely for gambling, so it is possible that card companies have done this to avoid the goverment imposing some kind of "red tape" on the banks with regard to gambling with credit.

In the long term, this move will save many gamblers from running up expensive Barclaycard debts by depositing so much, so can be a positive move overall, despite the inconvenience to many.

You know, when you look at these service and interest rates in relation to the pathetic (in fact punitive for savers) interest rates the UK banks are offering savers, it makes you realise once again that bankers should all be wearing masks and toting bloody great horse-pistols seeing as they are in the highway robbery business.

 

[dazlazz]

There are no fees for debit card transactions. FACT!

 

[Simmo!]

After thinking about it, it is highly unlikely they would ever add fees to debit cards as the difference is that, with a credit card you are using money that isn't yours (borrowing effectively) while a debit card gives you access to what you already own. So ethically - possibly even legally - banks wouldn't be able to levy such a charge.

 

[KasinoKing]

After thinking about it, it is highly unlikely they would ever add fees to debit cards as the difference is that, with a credit card you are using money that isn't yours (borrowing effectively) while a debit card gives you access to what you already own. So ethically - possibly even legally - banks wouldn't be able to levy such a charge.

Hmmmm...
A few times I have used my CREDIT card when I had a healthy POSITIVE balance on it (due to casino winnings!) - but they still charged me the fee...
So do you think they acted illegally?

KK

 

[Simmo!]

Hmmmm...
A few times I have used my CREDIT card when I had a healthy POSITIVE balance on it (due to casino winnings!) - but they still charged me the fee...
So do you think they acted illegally?

KK

Probably covered by some T&C I'd have thought. Sue 'em...see what happens

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I cannot believe that Chopley an Isle of Man resident doesn`t have a Neteller account, shame on you Chopley .

I have, and I tried to access my account recently as a precursor to withdrawing from 3Dice, but it'd been inactive for so long that my login details simply prompted a 'We need to call you' response.

Have to say I didn't realise they were based on the IOM though!

 

[vinylweatherman]

There are no fees for debit card transactions. FACT!

I have found VISA debit to suffer more transaction failures than VISA credit when it comes to online casinos. This is probably because online casinos do not normally use the additional "verified by VISA" security step, yet the transactions can be pretty large. This is probably why VISA debit gets "trigger happy" over deposits over £100.

Even my Barclaycard locked up earlier in the week, and I thought it was the casino's processor, but next morning I got an automated call from the fraud dept, and I had to verify the last 5 transactions before my card would be unlocked.

What surpised me even more was that around 4 of the transactions had been MISCODED as "computer software store". This was an accredited MGS casino, that of course does NOT take deposits from the US, nor any other country that Microgaming deems as "too risky" because of legislation, such as Spain.

I suspect that it was the VERY large amount spent on "computer software", rather than the string of gambling deposits, that triggered the fraud lock. This was a sudden variation from my usual pattern of spending, which has been 99% online gambling.

This kind of miscoding could get online casinos into a heap of trouble with the EU, as it is considered "fraudulent", and entirely unnecessary for a country where the activity, and it's transactions, are perfectly legal.

This would also circumvent the fees and treatment of the deposit as a "cash advance", and this could anger the banks as they are being diddled out of the revenue, which could cause them to take action against the processor, maybe even the casino itself.

I don't think the UK gambling commission would be impressed either, and such activity could be a problem when it comes to current operators gaining the soon to be required secondary licenses.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The one that gets me about credit card deposits (and this is from an MG casino group accredited here at CM) is the advice to 'avoid depositing whole numbers such as 100.00 and 250.00, instead choose amounts such as 49.99 and 199.99, if the deposit fails then try a different amount'.

Those transactions don't show up on the statements as anything even remotely linked to online gambling.....

I have to say it makes the whole thing feel a bit shady, I appreciate US players and in some other places have to play it carefully, but FFS, in countries where it's all legal, can't we cut that kind of BS out?

 

[vinylweatherman]

The one that gets me about credit card deposits (and this is from an MG casino group accredited here at CM) is the advice to 'avoid depositing whole numbers such as 100.00 and 250.00, instead choose amounts such as 49.99 and 199.99, if the deposit fails then try a different amount'.

Those transactions don't show up on the statements as anything even remotely linked to online gambling.....

I have to say it makes the whole thing feel a bit shady, I appreciate US players and in some other places have to play it carefully, but FFS, in countries where it's all legal, can't we cut that kind of BS out?

Interestingly, for all the miscoded transactions, I was billled for 1p less than the amount deposited.

Oddly enough, this could even fool Mastercard, who just don't allow offshore gambling transactions. Not only would I avoid the fees, I could "scam" the purchase loyalty point schemes that are not generally available for "cash" transactions, but would be awarded for a purchase of £999.99 worth of "computer software".

The only downside is that it depends on which processor gets used, as I could end up getting the "wrong" one and having a big purchase correctly coded, and being charged a small fortune in fees.