Resolved Bad experience on BetPhoenixCasino!

[LHofsdal]

It didn't.
I'm here in great part to make sure everyone is taken care of.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

Only if your not a negative value player....... sorry could not resist that one

LH

 

[NicolasJohnson]

I played on a free chip that I won in a tourny, had about 80something left in my balance. I don't drink and did not cash out, just left it to play the next day. I let it go because it was free money and actually thought I may have a start of Alzheimer. Then I read that the same thing happen to somebody else and started to think.

The same thing you wrote above was told to the other player, so why bother.And Nicolas had proof that she or somebody else played down her balance..kinda like the fraud with Piper.

This is a really nasty allegation. You are basically saying that we defrauded Piper and yourself. I checked your account and I don't see anything missing. Please, contact me with further info so I can investigate. Everything in RTG is clearly documented, you can see as well as I can what went on. If something happened that I'm missing, I'll be glad to fix it.

And if I'm not fixing something I should, I BEG of you please PAB. Max and Meister are fair, I'm sure they will make sure you are treated fairly, whether it was from a deposit or a free chip is irrelevant.

I'm not saying BetPhoenix is a bad casino, just saying from my experience and all I have been reading the past month that something is just not right there. Just my opinion. And I hope that I'm allowed to post my opinion without getting backlash.

You are doing more than just posting your opinion. You are accusing us of defrauding you. This is very serious. Please co-operate to ensure if it did happen, we fix it.

Only if your not a negative value player....... sorry could not resist that one

LH

Let me re-phrase that for you: If you think it is a human right to receive free money indefinitely; you might be disappointed. Other than that, you won't be disappointed with us.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

 

[LHofsdal]

Let me re-phrase that for you: If you think it is a human right to receive free money indefinitely; you might be disappointed. Other than that, you won't be disappointed with us.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

I don't think it is a human right, but I was disappointed with the casino you represent, not in you personally. To me it was a slap in the face, because I only deposited there once, and was lucky enough to win. Then I was labeled a "negative value player". I have never asked for anything for free, I only took what was offered. So please, don't come at me with a "snarky" remark. It wasn't my fault I got lucky, and that is all it was, luck.

LH

 

[takethemoney]

Only if your not a negative value player....... sorry could not resist that one

LH

Ahhhh, shucks, then might only get a 400% reload SUB.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

I don't think it is a human right, but I was disappointed with the casino you represent, not in you personally. To me it was a slap in the face, because I only deposited there once, and was lucky enough to win. Then I was labeled a "negative value player". I have never asked for anything for free, I only took what was offered. So please, don't come at me with a "snarky" remark. It wasn't my fault I got lucky, and that is all it was, luck.

LH

It was not my intention to be 'snarky'

I made the statement that I will make sure players are taken care of. You said "unless they are negative value" (in essence, unless they get bonus banned). So you were basically saying:

If we don't give out free money to someone (someone who is a negative value player), then we aren't taking care of them.

Hense, my reply. You have the right to feel that if we don't give out free money we are somehow not taking care of the players we exclude from bonuses. But not everyone feels that way. So I tried to re-phrase it. Some people feel they are taken care of if they are offered a quality honest service. My intention was only to make it clear to those people that we do offer a quality honest service. As you know, there are plenty of rogues out there, and many of the comments aimed at us may make it sound to new players that read this that we are somehow dishonest.

Again, my apologies if my intentions and the meaning of my message wasn't properly expressed by my words.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

 

[SlotsLover]

great experiences with betphoenix

I have made well over 300 deposits with betphoenix and many many withdrawals and have never had a problem, other than an occasional processor delay of a few days. The staff is always very friendly and available. I have had some very large wins there (approaching 10k) and have never had any problems with them on collections, nor have I been "bonus banned."

By the way, as a rule, I never take "free money" because essentially, you get what you pay for. I will not play slots with a max cashout, because I would hate to win a jackpot and not get all of it. I do enjoy bonuses on nearly every deposit, because I prefer to play with more, rather than less.

I just wanted to share my experience with BetPhoenix. I have never had any interactions with Nicholas, but Dean and the other support staff are top notch, imho. I hope others have as good an experience with them as I have.

 

[maxd]

Where is Max in all of this?

I'm here, I have just opted (so far) to not participate in this discussion.

I have two jobs here at Casinomeister: (1) handle the PABs and (2) moderate the Complaints forums.

Job #1 was pretty much finished here when the PAB concluded. Unless something extraordinary comes up -- direct questions to me about the PAB, misrepresentation of the case, attacks against me or the PAB process, etc -- I prefer to observe and keep my opinions to myself. At least that's the approach I'm taking these days. Some of you will know that that hasn't always been the case.

Job #2 is ongoing but so far nothing really needs moderating here so, again, I prefer to observe quietly.

Paying the mother was the honorable thing to do.

I think it needs to be said that no one was "paid" here. What really happened was that the mother's deposits were all returned. As it happens that amounted to pretty much the same total as what the claimed winnings were. I can see how some might choose to see it as payment of winnings but it most certainly was not that. It was the record of deposits that determined the amount the mother received, period.

I feel I should say a little something about how we handle the PABs.

First of all Bryan and I do this together. If you picture it as me doing the grunt work (usually, though not always) and Bryan overseeing that you've got a pretty good idea of how the process works. We often discuss cases as they progress and, if needs be, the decisions are subject to his final approval.

In a case where fraud is suspected we try to gather as much of the available evidence as possible and decide for ourselves whether the casino's decision against the player is well founded.

If the evidence in the case is inconclusive, as far as we are concerned, then we (typically) ask that deposits be returned before the player's account is closed at the casino. That's what happened in this particular case.

As it happened the casino had already arrived at the same decision, to return all deposits. All I did was ensure that the two parties agreed, and verified, what that actual amount was. It so happened there was a bit of a dispute over the total but that was ironed out: the deposit records were agreed upon and that amount was returned in full.

So no, I would not say that our decision in this case is a statement from us that we thought the player was innocent of all accusations. Clearly this was not the case, see Bryan's concerns as posted in this thread after the PAB was finalized.

What I believe you could and should say is that we didn't feel the evidence was 100% conclusive so we opted to support the refunded deposits approach and leave it at that. In other words it was pretty much a no-brainer for us: the casino was already doing what needed to be done, we just helped the respective parties sort out a few details.

 

[all4greed]

I have made well over 300 deposits with betphoenix and many many withdrawals and have never had a problem, other than an occasional processor delay of a few days...

By the way, as a rule, I never take "free money" because essentially, you get what you pay for. I will not play slots with a max cashout, because I would hate to win a jackpot and not get all of it. I do enjoy bonuses on nearly every deposit, because I prefer to play with more, rather than less.

You say you don't take free money, but then you say you enjoy bonuses on nearly every deposit. What do you mean?

Most of their bonuses have a max cashout based on the deposit. So what bonuses are you using that would allow you to keep a jackpot?

 

[SlotsLover]

110% bonus

You say you don't take free money, but then you say you enjoy bonuses on nearly every deposit. What do you mean?

Most of their bonuses have a max cashout based on the deposit. So what bonuses are you using that would allow you to keep a jackpot?

I don't take "free money bonuses" but rather deposit match bonuses. Here is the deal that I generally take for slots:

110% Bonus No Max, Non Cashable
25X play through
Deposit $50 and up
Redeem coupon: at bet phoenix

hope that answers your questions

 

[SlotsLover]

whoops

I don't take "free money bonuses" but rather deposit match bonuses. Here is the deal that I generally take for slots:

110% Bonus No Max, Non Cashable
25X play through
Deposit $50 and up
Redeem coupon: at bet phoenix

hope that answers your questions

I hope I didn't violate any norms or rules here by copying and pasting that bonus code from betphoenix. I don't want you to think I'm a shill or something for that casino
I was just answering a question but I guess I should have been more general.

 

[The Dude]

I hope I didn't violate any norms or rules here by copying and pasting that bonus code from betphoenix. I don't want you to think I'm a shill or something for that casino
I was just answering a question but I guess I should have been more general.

Removed code from shill post

 

[chayton]

Question for Max and Bryan - if you're positive that the OP was a fraudster, why is he still here? I'm not saying that you should kick him out, I'm just wondering if there was some doubt or something unproven, because normally when a member here is uncovered as a fraud, their username goes red PDQ. Just curious.

 

[Marie2473]

Question for Max and Bryan - if you're positive that the OP was a fraudster, why is he still here? I'm not saying that you should kick him out, I'm just wondering if there was some doubt or something unproven, because normally when a member here is uncovered as a fraud, their username goes red PDQ. Just curious.

I think because it coul not be proved in either way... (might be wrong but thats how I read it all)

 

[maxd]

Question for Max and Bryan - if you're positive that the OP was a fraudster ....

I'll let Bryan speak to the banning issue but I can speak to the PAB side of it.

Marie2473 more or less nailed it. I believe I've already said "we didn't feel the evidence was 100% conclusive", so it would have been inappropriate to rule on the PAB as if it were.

If the fraud evidence in the PAB had been conclusive then I would have thrown the PAB out as a fraudulent claim. That didn't happen, obviously, so clearly I had my reasons for not being 100% sure.

 

[The Dude]

One of the main reasons why he wasn't banned outright was because I had a number of questions for him.

here's another:

@Pipersniper - if you've spent this amazing amount of time with your mom, playing slots etc., why haven't you taken the time to show her how to use her computer effectively, and to deal with Danish language casinos only?

 

[PiperSniper]

@Casinomesiter

My mom is "oldschool". She got shipped away as a young girl to work early in her life. Therefore she never went much too school either. She isnt therefore the brightest person when it comes to learning new stuff and have a tendency to just give up if things is too hard. I have managed to teach her to go in her homebanking and check her account, but often she calls me, because she some how manage to screw it up. You might call her stupid, but I just think she gives up too fast.

And for the last time! The casino was only going to be played when I was there with her. A thing we could do when I visited her, instead of just sit and look at eachtoher. Is that so impossible to understand? THATS WHY I DIDDENT EVEN THOUGHT OF PICKING A DANISHSPEAKING CASINO! It was me who handled the account for her when she played anyway!!! It was all about picking a casino with best bonus and who had the "Achilles" slot, which she wanted to try after my recommendation. It takes a lot of action to get going at a casino with deposits, coupon codes and stuff. My mom wouldent be able to get this done herself correct, because its a tricky process for her to do, as she have a hard time learning this stuff. And why should she bother, when I am there anyway a lot. It cant be true, that I should explain my moms situation in here, because you think she is handicapped and I abuse her. Jesus, how sick is that. People dont have to be handicapped or inaware of what goes around them, just because they cant handle a computer.I know A LOT of older people that also dont can handle a computer. They simply dont wanna learn the new technology.

Well, I was going to let this go, but I can see, that Nicolas continuesly keeps to claim his ridicilous fraud accusations, so I will now start considering what I can do to clear my name - I simply wont accept this.

I can assure you, that I also am thinking about contacting a lawyer. This might be something small for you, but for me to be accused of having a handicapped mother who I have abused with both her creditcard and identy. Thats pretty serious accusations!

So I will do EVERYTHING in my power, to prove to you that my mom is perfectly normal and aware of everything that happend with HER casinoaccount!

And once again. Get a danishtalking customerperson too call her. I know, that I could get another one to pretend being my mom, as one here have stated, but make the person ask about EVERYTHING possible, even strange questions about things. I cant possible get a 3 person to act like my mom and know all answers.

 

[PiperSniper]

@Casinomeister & Nicolas,

You are both MORE than welcome to come and visit my mom in her apartment. Just set the date. Then I will be there to translate, and you can see for your self, that she is completetly normal, and not handicapped as you accuse her for. She might even offer a cup of coffee and a piece of cake!

I know Denmark is far away, but I think you maybe have other danish users in here, so you can find one of them, and let them do the visit for you - I dont care, just as long me and my moms name gets cleared!

If my story was a big lie, dont you think I would have went AWOL now, after my mom got her owed money? What is the logic in, that I still keep defending myself and answering questions in here, if I got away with some kind a fraud. I mean, I must be pretty clever to make such a fraud with identity theft and stuff, so wouldent I then also be clever enough to AWOL this forum, after the "PAB" got settled and the money paid!?

This is so insane!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't think it is a human right, but I was disappointed with the casino you represent, not in you personally. To me it was a slap in the face, because I only deposited there once, and was lucky enough to win. Then I was labeled a "negative value player". I have never asked for anything for free, I only took what was offered. So please, don't come at me with a "snarky" remark. It wasn't my fault I got lucky, and that is all it was, luck.

LH

It was not my intention to be 'snarky'

I made the statement that I will make sure players are taken care of. You said "unless they are negative value" (in essence, unless they get bonus banned). So you were basically saying:

If we don't give out free money to someone (someone who is a negative value player), then we aren't taking care of them.

Hense, my reply. You have the right to feel that if we don't give out free money we are somehow not taking care of the players we exclude from bonuses. But not everyone feels that way. So I tried to re-phrase it. Some people feel they are taken care of if they are offered a quality honest service. My intention was only to make it clear to those people that we do offer a quality honest service. As you know, there are plenty of rogues out there, and many of the comments aimed at us may make it sound to new players that read this that we are somehow dishonest.

Again, my apologies if my intentions and the meaning of my message wasn't properly expressed by my words.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager

It's not a right, but an EXPECTATION that where B & M casinos hand out free drinks, food, and even rooms, the online casinos give out match bonuses.

I cannot see how anyone can judge whether a player is going to be "negative value" after just a SINGLE DEPOSIT!!!!

It seems these are not "a very few players" that are getting bonus banned, but a significant minority, a few of which are venting here on the forum.

It looks like your system is far too "trigger happy" when it comes to detecting "negative value players", and you are very likely throwing away many players who just had an early run of luck, but who will inevitably give it all back, and more, even WITH full access to the -EV bonuses.

It is fact that players will sometimes hit big from a big bonus, and that they would not have had the opportunity were it not for the additional bankroll provided by the bonus. They may even get lucky twice on the trot, but it is still LUCK, the same LUCK that explains all those crushingly negative sessions on deposit after deposit that have players CONVINCED that the only realistic explanation is "cheating software", rather than the fact that they were extremely unlucky.

Unfortunately, having big bonuses, and using a "class system" to manage them, creates an "us & them" feeling among players. It seems you have 2 distinct class of customers, those you want to impress, and those you want to drive away. Those who are currently being impressed are worried that they will suddenly find they are downgraded to "unwanted", and that there is nothing they can do to ensure that they "behave themselves" such that this doesn't happen. This does little to encourage loyalty, but does little to put off advantage players, who know they can at least have ONE go at "advantage play", by using the new player bonus. Since they expect to be "busted" from that first deposit, they will want to make it count, and will NOT play on, but will withdraw as soon as they can, quite possibly uninstalling the casino before you even get the chance to bonus ban them. Such players tend to deposit once per casino anyway, and move on to the next victim.

Players that continue to deposit are in it for the longer term, regardless of whether they take bonuses or not. They may well make no profit for the casino initially because they get LUCKY, but if they are well looked after, they will CARRY ON depositing, and CARRY ON taking what are long term -EV bonuses, and will eventually give all the money back, becoming profitable for the casino.

I can look at my own records. I have had some fantastic LUCK, and am well AHEAD at some casinos. I play mostly with the various bonuses and promotions, and only play without a bonus once I have played all the bonuses I intend to, and have money over in my gambling purse, and some more time to squander in front of my PC.

Despite this, the long term "the house always wins in the end" DOES apply, and where I have been bonus banned as a result of a winning streak, the casino has NEVER won their money back, BUT where I have not been bonus banned DESPITE winning a large amount, the casino HAS eventually got the money back & more because I have continued playing with the bonuses, and the luck has balanced out in the longer term, and the house has won in the end. It means that money won from where I am bonus banned HAS all been given back, BUT to casinos that have NOT bonus banned me for winning, or those where I am down, and the offers are good.

As an outsider looking in to a casino, I look for casinos where there is NO evident sign that winners get bonus banned for being too lucky, and will NOT even JOIN a casino where it seems they have "trigger happy" bonus banning systems in place.

I open few new accounts now, rather I tend to reinstall old accounts that have been dormant for a while, and give them another shot. Usually, the promotional schedule has changed during my absence, and what made me drift away to start with no longer applies.

 

[LHofsdal]

Thank you for your post, you are exactly right. When I did receive the withdrawal, my mom was here and I was going to make a deposit so she could play. She has never gambled on line and wanted to try it. That is how I found out I was bonus banned.

I didn't take one of their huge bonuses, I took the 100% no max cashout. Even with that promotion, on a 36 dollar deposit the playthrough was around 2 grand if not more. I have never been bonus banned, by any casino, this was the first for me. I even e-mailed Nicolas and never got a reply. It was not snotty or anything like that, I just asked why I was not able to claim any bonus, and if it was because I won a no max cashout promotion.

I just won't play there again. Not that I am a big depositor, but since I retired at such an early age,(Why not retire, I had 21 years in the same company) there is not much to do during the day when everyone I know is at work so why not blow my hubby's money lol. I just let it stand the way it is and play somewhere else, that is all I can really do.

Thanks again for your post VWM!! I am glad someone sees my side.

LH

 

[PiperSniper]

my mom was here and I was going to make a deposit so she could play.

Better be carefull helping your mom regarding casino - she might suddently end up being handicapped, and you get accused of abusing her identity

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you for your post, you are exactly right. When I did receive the withdrawal, my mom was here and I was going to make a deposit so she could play. She has never gambled on line and wanted to try it. That is how I found out I was bonus banned.

I didn't take one of their huge bonuses, I took the 100% no max cashout. Even with that promotion, on a 36 dollar deposit the playthrough was around 2 grand if not more. I have never been bonus banned, by any casino, this was the first for me. I even e-mailed Nicolas and never got a reply. It was not snotty or anything like that, I just asked why I was not able to claim any bonus, and if it was because I won a no max cashout promotion.

I just won't play there again. Not that I am a big depositor, but since I retired at such an early age,(Why not retire, I had 21 years in the same company) there is not much to do during the day when everyone I know is at work so why not blow my hubby's money lol. I just let it stand the way it is and play somewhere else, that is all I can really do.

Thanks again for your post VWM!! I am glad someone sees my side.

LH

Perhaps this is part of the reason. One deposit, but it was a mere 36 bucks! This could make it look like you are ALWAYS going to be depositing at this level, and are not worth the bother.

Players usually make as big a deposit as they can afford for the welcome bonus, since it is often the most generous. They may have judged you because you managed a mere $36, rather than a larger, and rounder, figure.

I tend to deposit in round numbers, such as £100, £200, £300, £500, £1000 etc, and will usually maximise the welcome bonuses, and other decent offers.

Even if I win £10K, the casino will see that it could all come back in a couple of months if they made the right offers. They also know it could be going elsewhere if they make the WRONG offers too.

I have been bonus banned, but in all cases except Grand Prive, I have been substantially ahead, and over several MONTHS of regular play.

I now tend to quit where I am ahead, even without being told I am bonus banned. In most cases, I am lured back with more offers because they must feel they have a chance to win it back.

Recently, even Roxy Palace have been making advances to me I was thorougly bonus banned there TWICE for being lucky with their regular 30% bonuses, and at BOTH their casinos Now it seems they fancy their chances for getting back this £10K

I uninstalled Purple Lounge after they started banning ACCOUNTS under the new owners for what seemed nothing more than taking all the bonuses on offer (I was doing this as well), even if there was some play WITHOUT bonuses (I also did this, £1K with no bonus on several occasions). £25K + ahead, I thought my luck would run out, so I didn't give them a chance to kick me out, I uninstalled the casino. Today I got ANOTHER "100% to £150" reload offer, clearly NOT bonus banned then, so it seems even MORE strange that players that win ONCE end up bonus banned so readily. Where the HELL are they getting this info from that enables these decisions to be made COMPETENTLY

I suspect there is a great deal of BAD DATA out there, and this is creating increasing problems for players. I have had a couple of problems, all resolved to the extent that I got paid, but that have turned out to have been caused, or worsened, by bad data being used to inform the decision makers.

 

[skiny]

... so why should it matter what casino I picked for my mom?... I was helping making deposits, put in coupon codes, opening the slot, and put autospin on.

And played with the sound off so I didn't wake her.

And, You are a wrong once again?

What prove you want??

How imbecil can people be?

You can call me an imbecile if you like but I didn't get caught spending mom's money.

 

[PiperSniper]

Neither did I!

I have offered both Nicolas and CM to come visit my mom and meet her for them self. This would be so awesome, if they had the balls to take me up on this offer! But it wouldent be so good, to realize that all their accusations was false. Think how bad they would look in here. That wouldent be good for two so "big" persons, so I doubt they will take this offer...

Actually ANYONE in this forums is welcome to come and meet my mom in her apartment. I dont mind, if Nicolas or CM send a person on their behalf. Everything is open, me or my mom have nothing to hide!

It actually kinda makes me laugh how many of you just follow the two "big" ones. How can you judge the way you do, when it hasnt been proved anything NEAR, that I have abused my moms identy. Freaking ridicilous, and a strange way to welcome new users.

 

[skiny]

Neither did I!

I have offered both Nicolas and CM to come visit my mom and meet her for them self. This would be so awesome, if they had the balls to take me up on this offer! But it wouldent be so good, to realize that all their accusations was false. Think how bad they would look in here. That wouldent be good for two so "big" persons, so I doubt they will take this offer...

Actually ANYONE in this forums is welcome to come and meet my mom in her apartment. I dont mind, if Nicolas or CM send a person on their behalf. Everything is open, me or my mom have nothing to hide!

It actually kinda makes me laugh how many of you just follow the two "big" ones. How can you judge the way you do, when it hasnt been proved anything NEAR, that I have abused my moms identy. Freaking ridicilous, and a strange way to welcome new users.

If you read anything in this forum past this thread you would know that I don't follow anyone.

 

[Mavin1]

I haven't read every post in this entire thread, just to long. But, I think Nicholas Johnson should be commended for returning your mothers deposits. If you had chosen a rogue, you wouldn't have even seen that money back.

Obviously, people have done their best to make the best of a fuzzy situation.

Now, what I want to add is why waste your time with your mother gambling online? If this is when you get together with her, why not take her out shopping, or to a movie, or the park, or sight seeing or something other than more staying in and starring at a computer?
I don't know what her physical condition is, but she would benefit and be happier probably sharing things that she can't do at home.

As many members here know, I care for my 90 year old mother in law with alzheimers, 24-7. I used to take her out to the land based casino as something to do out of the home. This was when they still spewed out coins and she was delighted with her tub of nickels. But when it became obvious that I was spending all my time telling her, push the button, push the button, push the button, I knew it was time to quit taking her to the casino.

So you have to ask, is it really something she truly enjoys, if you have to coach her through it, or would doing other things with her be more meaningful?
And what if she decides to go it alone and lose all of her money, would you not feel ashamed for having introduced her to gambling. Afterall, you have said she is not to sharp when it comes to the computer. You could be putting her in a position of terrible loss and if you care for her so much, then you need to consider you may inadvertently be harming her.

I can appreciate a family member that wants to have quality time with their parent, but consider that quality for you may not be for her. So, take her out to lunch or dinner, see a movie, take her for a ride so she can see the scenery, this would be so much more memorable for her than thinking that her visits with you are just about gambling.

JMO