Bad change to CM Accreditation terms for affiliates...

KasinoKing

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I have just noticed this change...

Last year the Standards said this:
Affiliate marketing Standards
2. Must not implement retroactive terms and conditions to their affiliate programs without explicit permission and agreement from the affiliate.

NOW the Standards say this:
Affiliate marketing Standards
2. Must not implement retroactive terms and conditions to their affiliate programs without opening up a dialogue with the affiliate and discuss other options.

So I guess that lets Videoslots & 32Red off the hook then :mad:
(Even though NEITHER of them contacted me to discuss BEFORE forcing a worse deal on me)

KK
 

colinsunderland

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What does that mean? They can email you and tell you what they are doing and it's ok? As thats dialogue.

Kindred said as long as they could see I was promoting them they wouldn't reduce my deal, guess what, sent them a couple of FTD's last month, they dropped me to 10% and won't put it back. Disgusting behaviour.
 

KasinoKing

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What does that mean? They can email you and tell you what they are doing and it's ok? As thats dialogue.

Kindred said as long as they could see I was promoting them they wouldn't reduce my deal, guess what, sent them a couple of FTD's last month, they dropped me to 10% and won't put it back. Disgusting behaviour.
That is REALLY bad :mad:
Was it a CM Accredited casino? If so - maybe contact him to get his view...

KK
 

colinsunderland

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That is REALLY bad :mad:
Was it a CM Accredited casino? If so - maybe contact him to get his view...

KK

It was Unibet I sent them too, over Cheltenham.
Problem with large groups doing terms like this is, they have a market saturation and it makes it much harder to send players, especially for smaller affiliates. If you have a marketing budget like oddschecker you still get them, and are never going to fail to send 5 FTD customers a month.
 

Biti

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What does that mean? They can email you and tell you what they are doing and it's ok? As thats dialogue.

Kindred said as long as they could see I was promoting them they wouldn't reduce my deal, guess what, sent them a couple of FTD's last month, they dropped me to 10% and won't put it back. Disgusting behaviour.

Good question.

I really have no clue what dialogue I should have if a program is changing goalposts. In the end, you have to do just what they feel like, waiting for the next moment they change the rules again.
 
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Casinomeister

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What I can do is post warnings or alerts on the review pages for affiliates. You have to read the affiliate programs terms - that is the bare bones simplicity to it.

The affiliate environment has changed 100% in the past couple of years, and due to stringent regs coming down the pipe, things will be changing even more. Affiliates need to learn to roll with the punches - that is the bottom line. And sometimes you're going to get caught between a rock and a hard place - for instance like I was with Kindred. I am managing Ted Loh's account there, and for me to toss that to the wind because of a disagreement is just mental. I am trying to keep that account running to support his family which still depends on it.

If you want to rag on affiliate programs, rag on those who are ripping off players, or that condone targeting problem gamblers. The UK facing casinos (like Kindred's) are the top of the line for players. You are an advertiser, and your accounts fall under a different set of rules - it's not like it was in 2005 when this industry was just a big party. And believe me when I say it's going to get tighter - especially when you are a UK facing affiliate - or one that sends traffic to properly regulated casinos.

My advice is to do what you feel is best for your company. I would recommend CPA deals in this sort of environment, or hybrid, or what you feel is sustainable. This is your call.
 

colinsunderland

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I understand the whole game is changing, what I completely disagree with is changing terms that were previously agreed to and applying it to previous customers. If Kindred (or any other company) send me an email saying 'from today if you don't send x customers in x months, your rev share will drop to xx% until you hit that target' then I have no problem them applying it to any customer I send from that date. What I don't agree with, and personally I think is theft, is changing an agreed deal for customers sent xx years ago.

Here are some snippets from emails I had with my affiliate manager

I suggest introducing a Unibet horseracing banner to the top of the forum for a couple days, maybe get a couple NDP’s in and then straight away there is no issue.

I’ll exclude your accounts from the ones that will potentially get reduced.
As you mentioned below, as far as you’re promoting us and active. That’s all I ask for.


However, an other 6 months went past without new players. This meant the accounts got picked up again and reduced.

You had 2 new players in March. So if you manage to pick up 4 more in April and May period you will be moved back to your previous reward plan.


Is that really fair, starts off saying as long as I am promoting them (have both 32Red and Unibet banners active on my site) thats all he asks.

Also says if I get a couple of NDP's there is no issue, I send 2 new players and still get reduced down to 10%, and suddenly, despite previous emails, I have to send another 4.

It's ok saying negotiate CPA deals, and thats fine going forward or with new deals, but if you have say 50 players and switch to CPA, then you still have the 50 on rev share which will get reduced regardless, the quotas are still there on historic players, regardless of any new deal you negotiate.

If casinos didn't want to pay on the lifetime of a player then they shouldn't have offered the deal in the first place.
 

KasinoKing

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Yes, I totally agree with everything Colin said - just couldn't be bothered to write it myself because I'm just fed up with all this shit.

Both Videoslots & 32Red changed my deal after I'd been promoting them for 1+ and 12+ years respectively, without any sort of prior discussion.
Basically it was just "Take it or leave it".

Casinomeister has chosen to turn a blind eye to these breaches of accreditation terms, and I totally get why he has done that. A bitter pill to swallow for me - but I've had worse. Us small-time affiliates have to fight our own battles now - some we can win, some we can't. These days we just have to roll with the punches and stick to the decent operators who wont stab you in the back - including some of those who are not "properly licenced and regulated" but who treat their players and affiliates with fairness & respect.

KK
 

Casinomeister

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I'm not turning any blind eye. The affiliates are somewhat to blame themselves. A majority have failed over the years to create a proper organization to protect affiliates from marketing terms that they don't like or that they feel is unfair. Most affiliates never read the terms - and just about all of them state that the affiliate program can do as they like.

We've had the GPWA, CAP, AGD, the list goes on of efforts to organize affiliate webmasters - even the recent International Gaming Affiliate Association (which I fully supported) was a failure because of a lack of interest on the affiliate's part. So don't go blaming me.

The bottom line is that these are business decisions that each affiliate needs to personally make. I could start roguing the programs that change terms, but no one will give a flying rat's ass. The programs will still operate, and affiliates - many of whom are members of Casinomeister - will still promote them.

This is totally different than dealing with player issues which I originally set off to do. When I started there were no real "affiliate" programs and when they started, you were happy to receive anything more than 10% rev share. One of the first programs we joined was 4%.

I won't take the blame for failures of the affiliate community. I feel that I have done my share - and I can continue to assist by warning affiliates about certain terms - and to make sure that they know how to protect their businesses by READING the terms and conditions before clicking "I Agree."
 
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Biti

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The thing is that the terms we are talking about weren't in the terms when we signed up at for example Kindred. I am very fine with changes for future traffic as I understand that things have changed. Paying 50% lifetime is simply not sustainable in this environment. Just check the number of programs and casinos that are ceasing or in financial trouble.

But applying terms retroactively to cut the income that was generated on a different set of terms is simply rogue. And the whole tone of Kindred's mail to Colin Sunderland is an annoying one. Also, misleading. He tries to get the impression he's asking the affiliate just to promote them actively, but in fact, he wants just a number of ndp's.

Organizing affiliates is an impossible thing. Different markets, different interests. An affiliate promoting regulated UK brands has completely different interests and problems than an affiliate promoting offshore brands in Australia. While super affiliates cook their own meals.

About the whole-world-serving .com offshore websites. I think they will have a hard time as in the end just a few markets will be interesting for them.

About the association, I had the idea it was more some kind of compliance-product than an association that also goes for fair terms and stuff.
 
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