b4playing

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
Hello Casinomesiter and beloved members of this forum,

The things that i'm going to tell you now , are purely confidential but it'll help me to reveal a big scandal. I also can prove everything i said since i kept almost every single email saved as a proof , right here in my laptop. I didn't know how to contact you, so i'm trying the forum. I don't know who else to turn to so please try to help me. I'll send you all the related proofs upon your request if necessary, just to show you that i'm deeply honest and to help you shine a light on this case. I know you are dealing with casinos not affiliate programs ,but this story is all about PLAYERS and AFFILIATES, and after reading this i believe you'll help me in my fight for justice. It sounds cheesy? I know , i also can't belive all that happened but it's true.

Here is the story:

After working for the same affilaite program for 1,5 years, it was time for me to move on with my life. The money they were paying was not enough and no matter how many players i've been bringing they didn't let me grow , so i decided to quit. That's when i met **** ***. He told me that he started a new master-affiliate compmany called B4playing. He introduced me to the tool and asked me if i would be interested to work with him. His clear words were promising : "Hi man , the tool is finished and %100 ready, i want to cut a good deal with you, you bring in players from your affiliates and i give you 20$ for each player". Well , it didn't sound bad and after meeting many times we set the comissions ($50 per player), signed a contract and i started working with them.

It wasn't even the 3rd day that i realized this people have no idea about our business. The work that was done on the tool was so cheap and amateur, everything they promised on the website are lies and they didn't have any marketing tools whatsoever to start promoting it! Also let's not forget that there's not even any staff to operate the company! The company is consisted of 3 people , 2 offices and a toilets! To my shock , i didn't believe that this can be true and thought that this is all a big joke!I mean , somebody can be stupid but man, not THAT stupid. Especially if this guy is a name , **** *** , for 6 years in the industry!? But later i realized that the tool really was nowhere near finished ( the tool is completely useless and doesn't even convert because it's not giving players anything special, everything even the exclusive bonuses they promise the players are pure lies. Download the tool , you'll see yourself.) **** *** didn't like hearing that his tool is useless and i can't send any traffic to this tool because, well , B4PLAYING as a company is already finished after burning so much money and accomplishing simply NOTHING. Yes, since they started they have lost almost 1 million dollars and made no profit. So he thought it would be a good idea to lie to the affiliates , telling them the tool is is ready and promising them lies (just like to the players), so that he can show his investors that the tool is working , so they'll raise some more money for their beloved company B4PLAYING and **** can sit in his confortable chair and continue cheating people! Ofcourse i rejected him and told him that i can not CHEAT my affiliates and let them send their traffic to a grinder and cost them to lose so much money. That's when the problems started. First they pushed me to fix their "tool" for them for free using my knowledge, then they asked me to push the affiliates to bring players already to a broken tool and then he even thretaned me that if i quit working with him now, he won't pay anything since the day i started knowing that i have problems with the bank. When this happened i was already 2 months with them, trying to explain them what needs to be done. So i was basically unemployed for 2 months with no income whatsoever , working on my sites on the net hoping to make some money.

So i ask you now :

What kind of a person starts a business trying to cheat affiliates and the players? (i have proven documents that both the tool or the marketing tools are NOT ready)
What kind of a person threaten his partner/employee for not doing the same with him?

How can a person be a bigger disgrace for our industry?

I'm not going to mention even the troubles he gave to me like not paying me for the time i spent trying to help b4playing, after doing banners for them , doing translations for them, giving them HONEST and PROPER business solutions. What i learned from this story, is not to make any business with people you don't know. They can turn out to be so nasty and dirty people. I know they spammed your forums, trying to get players. God even that was so wrong but at least it was funny because it was pure stupidty. Right now , what happened is not funny at all. It's a scandal.
If you need any kind of proof, let me know and you'll have it. I wanted to send you this from my registered email adress. Semi@b4playing.com.. But they blocked it! I can't even access to my accounts anymore , probably they won't pay any comissions to my affilaites nor to me!

I trust in you and in this industry. Please let's keep it clean & Honest. Let's see what **** will say about all this now, let's see what kind of lies he'll spread to cover this story. Too late! I have all the mails ****, what are you gonna do now, shoot me?

Greetings,

Felix
 
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Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
I think the thread title is misleading, so I'm changing it and I'm removing personal names too as this sounds like a personal axe to grind. There is no evidence in that post that they are cheating players.

There seems to be a belief among many affiliates that the b4playing concept is seriously flawed in the multi-CPA model as the casinos themselves will not want to see players pushed from one casino to the next for bonuses (someone also suggested players might get labelled as bonus abusers), but that's a seperate issue and the way you have worded this complaint makes it sound like a "pay me or I'll post it on the forums" blackmail attempt.

Provide evidence they are cheating players and fair enough. Otherwise, You are better served keeping this private or in the affiliate realms (see CAP) IMO.


**** *** didn't like hearing that his tool is useless

What guy would? ;)
 

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
I think the thread title is misleading, so I'm changing it and I'm removing personal names too as this sounds like a personal axe to grind. There is no evidence in that post that they are cheating players.

There seems to be a belief among many affiliates that the b4playing concept is seriously flawed in the multi-CPA model as the casinos themselves will not want to see players pushed from one casino to the next for bonuses (someone also suggested players might get labelled as bonus abusers), but that's a seperate issue and the way you have worded this complaint makes it sound like a "pay me or I'll post it on the forums" blackmail attempt.

Provide evidence they are cheating players and fair enough. Otherwise, You are better served keeping this private or in the affiliate realms (see CAP) IMO.

Hi Simmo,

By all means i didn't mean to disrespect to your forums and you i don't mind you changing the name of the post. The only thing you are wrong about is that i didn't write this post "to get money or to blackmail anyone" , i don't care for the money for a long time now, all i wanted is that everybody sees this and understands that they are not honest people. I want people to understand and see that b4playing is on the very wrong side in the business. By posting this, i'm not only conforting myself but i'm also warning people not to do the same mistake. Trust me, it's much more important for me to see that everybody sees what kind of people they are than couple of thousands dollars. I myself would pay a thousand just to see b4playing get someone smarter to do the business and for **** to find himself another hobby.
 
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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Hi Felix,

Welcome to the forum. You've picked the right spot to hash this sort of stuff out BUT please be advised of the forum rules, specifically the following:

1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business. Opinions are expected, but do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

If you want to bring people's names into this - yeah that's fine if it's a matter of public record. Just be cautious on making claims that they're crooks etc. okay? That's not X-mas cheer. :D Thanks!
 

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
Hi Felix,

Welcome to the forum. You've picked the right spot to hash this sort of stuff out BUT please be advised of the forum rules, specifically the following:

1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business. Opinions are expected, but do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law.

If you want to bring people's names into this - yeah that's fine if it's a matter of public record. Just be cautious on making claims that they're crooks etc. okay? That's not X-mas cheer. :D Thanks!

Hello Casinomeister,

I apologize for breaking the rules of your forum. I guess I was just too excited and i missed to read the rules. I also want to say that i don't mean to attack anyone and i just wanted people to know the truth. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. Marry x-mas!:cool:
 

swampwitch

ProfessionalUnderachiever
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
Iowa, dammit.
The b4playing model was and is at best a con...on both honest affiliates and bonus players alike.
The very nature of the thing is designed to steal the livelihood of professional affiliates, and turn the boderline honest/not honest affiliate straight to the dark side. An affiliate gets $50 or $20 per player, and that is it. No commission on the life of the player...a fast buck and a license to co-opt other affiliates' players.

And for the players...
the casinos themselves will not want to see players pushed from one casino to the next for bonuses (someone also suggested players might get labelled as bonus abusers)
Simmo's got it.
It also keeps the player at arms length from the affiliate...What is the affiliate's incentive to arbitrate for the player if the affiliate's already pocketed the sad little $50...the only monies that affiliate will ever see from that player (Except for the concept of common decency. I know, I made a funny.)?

So Felix, as a professional in this business, why on earth would you have thrown your lot in with a company whose very business model is so anti-honest-affiliate friendly and anti-player friendly? Why would you expect to be treated fairly by people like this?
 

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
The b4playing model was and is at best a con...on both honest affiliates and bonus players alike.
The very nature of the thing is designed to steal the livelihood of professional affiliates, and turn the boderline honest/not honest affiliate straight to the dark side. An affiliate gets $50 or $20 per player, and that is it. No commission on the life of the player...a fast buck and a license to co-opt other affiliates' players.

And for the players...

Simmo's got it.
It also keeps the player at arms length from the affiliate...What is the affiliate's incentive to arbitrate for the player if the affiliate's already pocketed the sad little $50...the only monies that affiliate will ever see from that player (Except for the concept of common decency. I know, I made a funny.)?

So Felix, as a professional in this business, why on earth would you have thrown your lot in with a company whose very business model is so anti-honest-affiliate friendly and anti-player friendly? Why would you expect to be treated fairly by people like this?

Hello Swampwitch,

I know i've made a mistake but i guess i confuse people with myself. Because i'm an honest person , i couldn't even imagine something like this could happen! I trusted the name, i respected their business idea and wanted to give a shot but things got way out of hand. And believe me it looked very harmless at first :confused:
 

daera

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 24, 2001
Location
USA
I saw this the other week. I had to have a double take

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I dont need to post what others are thinking

Not much going on in that area of the forum GaryWatson. I doubt many caps members are promoting them. I know I'm not. I didn't like it from the get go.

There's not been any posts or activity in that forum area in awhile.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Not much going on in that area of the forum GaryWatson. I doubt many caps members are promoting them. I know I'm not. I didn't like it from the get go.

There's not been any posts or activity in that forum area in awhile.

Bring it.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
In a nutshell the affilliate owns a player for life.

What the OP was talkin about is anybody's guess, think he said they were crooks;go figger: say, NO.
 

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
Well they are

In a nutshell the affilliate owns a player for life.

What the OP was talkin about is anybody's guess, think he said they were crooks;go figger: say, NO.

I still didn't get paid the money they owe me.. I even have the statement.. I signed in the mail and sent them, no money for 2 weeks now , not surprised at all! :mad:
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
I still didn't get paid the money they owe me.. I even have the statement.. I signed in the mail and sent them, no money for 2 weeks now , not surprised at all! :mad:

From what I can see, they are crooked. I could be wrong, they can sure come on here and defend their product, methods of operation, and motive. It is not enough for certain valuable affiliates to 'ignore' changes in the marketplace; I believe it is their responsibility to expose them and challenge them publicly.

This 'tool' might be the best thing since sliced cliche's, but, with my limited knowledge, I think it stinks to high heaven.

How will this make life better for the player?

If b4playing doesn't become transparent soon I will contact the few Industry Reps I know and get their opinions. If b4playing is found 'to be wanting' - if need be - I will publicly challenge casinos to not allow the use of this product. The affiliate business is not uncrackable; it just needs to change its ways and start policing itself.
 
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FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
From what I can see, they are crooked. I could be wrong, they can sure come on here and defend their product, methods of operation, and motive. It is not enough for certain valuable affiliates to 'ignore' changes in the marketplace; I believe it is their responsibility to expose them and challenge them publicly.

This 'tool' might be the best thing since sliced cliche's, but, with my limited knowledge, I think it stinks to high heaven.

How will this make life better for the player?

If b4playing doesn't become transparent soon I will contact the few Industry Reps I know and get their opinions. If b4playing is found 'to be wanting' - if need be - I will publicly challenge casinos to not allow the use of this product. The affiliate business is not uncrackable; it just needs to change its ways and start policing itself.

Finally someone hearing me out! Thanks lojo! Where are they to defend themselves? I wonder :cheers:
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Finally someone hearing me out! Thanks lojo! Where are they to defend themselves? I wonder :cheers:

Would you like me to invite them to this thread?

Put on your pyth helmet, it could get messy :)
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Bring them on!!! But i doubt they'll show up! :lolup:

I would have sent you a copy of a letter via Personal Message, but they don't have contact info and live chat was down as well, so here's something anyway :)
 

FelixtheCat

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Location
Tel Aviv
I would have sent you a copy of a letter via Personal Message, but they don't have contact info and live chat was down as well, so here's something anyway :)

Oh, you are the man! BTW,a few days ago,they sent me a letter form their lawyer threatening to sue me if i don't stop "hurting their company" , If revealing the truth is hurting the company then who's actually hurting their company??? Unbelivable!!!
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Oh, you are the man! BTW,a few days ago,they sent me a letter form their lawyer threatening to sue me if i don't stop "hurting their company" , If revealing the truth is hurting the company then who's actually hurting their company??? Unbelivable!!!

You might wish to retain a lawyer... do any work pro bono in Israel? Is b4playing an Israeli company? I'm okay with my statements so far (as long as the moderators are) and if the company rep or lawyer comes on here and denies any wrongdoing I'll retract my observations until the whole truth is exposed... then I'll restate them in a more informed way or apologize publicly.
imo I haven't slandered them and there is no libel... if i have defamed them I'll be banned from this forum, but will continue the quest for truth by other means if necessary.

Until you mentioned their legal counsel involved in your issue, I would have thought they wouldn't respond but now I think they will.

Good luck, felix:thumbsup:
 
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