Avoir PremierBet Casino - bait & switch terms and unfair Baccarat

KravdraaYvoorg

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Location
Montreal
I signed up there yesterday, claimed their welcome bonus after reading their rules which stated that no games were excluded (see attached screenshot). I started playing multi-hand blackjack and about 500 hands in, I went back to the website to re-read the rules and oh surprise! they were changed to exclude blackjack, roulette and craps.

Not that big of deal, I guess, I'll just switch to Baccarat. I had the good instinct of trying the game in play mode first, betting 100 pounds on the banker every hand. After a while, there is a tied hand and to my amazement, my bet is taken away! :eek: Anyone ever heard of a ties-lose Baccarat? I haven't!

I need no further proof that these guys are clowns. Their big 300GBP welcome bonus seemed too good to be true, and it turned out to be just that.

Anybody from the UK know them? Are they a big company? What's their reputation like?
 
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Rettahs

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Location
Saint Louis
If you didn't bet Tie then yes you loose. Tie is a seperate bet in baccarat. There are three bets that can be made. Dealer, Player, or Tie. A Tie in baccarat is not a Push.
 

KravdraaYvoorg

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Location
Montreal
It *is* a push! It most definitely is, otherwise the game has a 10% house advantage!

It is a separate bet indeed, but when you play on banker or player, a tie is always a push. Try it on any reputable software (MG, Playtech, Boss, RTG, whichever)

Ties-lose Baccarat is not Baccarat at all.
 

Macgyver

Dormant account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Location
North Carolina
Check their "How to play" rules and it's in there:

Baccarat Help menu
How to play

Winning or losing the game
 If the bet has been placed on the player and the player has a greater score than
the banker then you win and will be paid evens.
 If the bet has been placed on a tie and both scores are equal then you win and
will be paid 8:1.
 If the bet has been placed on the banker and the banker has a greater score than
the player then you win and will be paid 19:20 (5% commission).
 All other bets you immediately lose the game, plus your bet.
 

KravdraaYvoorg

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Location
Montreal
I know, I read the rules right after I experienced that "interesting" variation on the game of Baccarat.

It's just not a fair game and it shouldn't be called Baccarat. With ties losing it becomes one of the worst bets in the casino, even worse than most slots.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
It *is* a push! It most definitely is, otherwise the game has a 10% house advantage!

It is a separate bet indeed, but when you play on banker or player, a tie is always a push. Try it on any reputable software (MG, Playtech, Boss, RTG, whichever)

Ties-lose Baccarat is not Baccarat at all.

You are correct. Unless they have other rules which are unheard of anywhere else, its always a push when you bet on banker/player and the outcome is a tie.
 

henryVIII

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Location
UK
Yep, the Wiz says baccarat has a HA of around 1.5%. Clearly if a push is a loss then this is a different game altogether.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
After further consideration I realize that a tie means NO result on player or banker bets.
 
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mamgamb

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - violation
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Location
England
Bacarac isnt the only broken game here, craps pass/dont pass bet also paywrongly when a 4 or 10 have been rolled.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
Curious, do you own this place?

I wish... LOL...

I am, however, one of about three General Sales Agents worldwide authorized to sell/promote this beautiful resort - and if you visited the site and wondered who the editor was, it is me and notes about treatments are based on my personal experience.

Any questions, feel free to PM me. Now back to the topic at hand :)
 

LadyLuck

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Location
Faraway
Baccarat pays back!

I am also a premierbet customer and played on their baccarat game a couple of months ago, lost some money and did not realise there was something wrong with the game... The other day i received an email from them saying that they experienced a problem on Baccarat and decided to refund all the affected customers from the day they launched with all the "incorrect" tie-lose lost bets!!! I got £800 back!!! :eek:

not bad after all! ;) :cheers:
 
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thetic

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Scotland
I too received credit to tune of 100 from Premierbet - good to see they returned funds but doesn't give a huge amount of confidence in software.

Going to ask for copies of gamelogs as sure i was due more than this back!!!
 

mamgamb

Banned User - multiple forum accounts - violation
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Location
England
their craps game is bent too, with wrong payouts on the (come out??) bets when you initially throw 4 or 10.
 

pangloss

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Australia
Baccarat and Craps are not the only problem games. The BJ game is ................well, you be the judge.

During playing just over 5oo hands of single hand BJ it became sickening to watch the dealer pull cards to impossible hands. My results were:

WIN 34.3%
Push 8.3%
LOSE 57.4%

WOO says the ratio should be:

Win 43.31%
Push 8.8%
LOSE 47.89%

After requesting Play Logs I was met with the response that they would need to retrieve said logs from their provider and that this would take some conbsiderable time (your not going to get them).

This organisation has no right to perpetrate such obviously altered games on their customers and then plead "we can't get the play logs, it's not our software". PremierBet are a prime example of why this industry is in urgent need of effective regulation. In the abscence of such regulation prohibition seems to me the only logical option to be taken - a path that the USA is currently choosing and frankly who could be surprised when cowboys such as PremierBet are riding around the place.


...
 

Dirk Diggler

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Location
UK
I lost pretty badly there too but your statistics are nowhere near proof that it's rigged. Very unlucky yes, but not unreasonably so.

Just under 2.7 standard deviations down is a very bad session though, I'll certainly agree with that.

By the way I'm not saying it's a good place to play - just that that's not proof of cheating. :thumbsup:
 

KravdraaYvoorg

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Location
Montreal
It looks like they botched their software more than they tried to blatantly cheat their customers. It can't be easy to develop a whole suite of casino software on your own.

Of course, that's absolutely no excuse for what has happened, but it's good to see that they're making up for their blunders.

Personally, I'll stick to the casinos using big name software from now on...
 
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