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Australian Pub & Club Poker Machine Tips/Advice

Discussion in 'Asian Land Based casinos' started by petro, Oct 1, 2014.

    Oct 1, 2014
  1. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    I have been doing research lately into playing the poker machines in pubs and clubs.
    Some of the following information may seem a bit odd. But you must understand that I’m playing in places with machines that largely have an 85% return. Also, places where soft drink will cost ~$1.50 a mouthful and if you’re hungry a small serve of fish and chips costs ~$30. In other words; it’s expensive as hell.
    Some people blame the government’s high taxes; others say it’s due inflation and greedy publicans. In any case, Australian pubs and clubs are not the kinds of places the normal sane person wants to spend much time in, unless they want to lose their shirts.

    Breaking the 1c/spin psychological barrier
    I once observed an older woman playing 1c/spin for an extended period of time at a pub.
    Some people will bet this low in order to play down credits but this woman was genuinely playing. This is the only person I have ever seen betting this small and I have observed thousands of people playing poker machines.

    Breaking the 1c/spin barrier is something I have yet to achieve but I feel that I am on the verge of doing it. Currently, my max bet is 5c/spin on the usual poker machines and 3c/spin on the 243 line machines. Some IGT 50 line machines jump from 1 line to 10 lines. I avoid playing these machines. I have an average loss of about $2-$3/hour by playing like this. If I can break the 1c/spin barrier I could probably lose a fifth of this.

    The golden rule for playing the pokies is to bet as low as you can possibly bear.
    Of course, there is an exception to betting low and that’s when it’s profitable to bet high.

    The first things to do when entering a pub or club
    You must have no scruples about claiming abandoned credit or cash. I would pick up a dollar on the floor in front of the manager even.

    Credit left on machines is common. When I enter a pub or club with poker machines, on the average there are 2 machines with unplayed credit. I have found the best way to claim this abandoned credit is to put in $1 and play it down. But, you want to be careful as you wouldn’t want to cause any trouble by doing this. For example; I was at a pub earlier tonight when some bikie-like characters left ~$1 on their machine. I waited until they left before playing the credit down as it is not worth the risk of getting people angry.
    Play down abandoned credit on machines as soon as you are sure it’s safe to do so, or someone else will.

    Check the change machines. I always have 4x 20c + 1x 10c in change in my wallet in case the change machine has credit in it. Also, finding loose dollars in or around the change machine is common; keep an eye out for it.

    Profitable Machines
    Along with checking for abandoned credit, checking the meters on mystery progressive jackpots is the first thing I do when I enter a pub or club.
    Learn about sniping mystery progressive jackpots. They are a guaranteed way to make money. Albeit, a rare find. I always have $250 spare on me in case I find a mystery progressive jackpot that is past the breakeven point.
    Also, there are some machines which have free game meters on them with an opportunity to get free spins such as Aristocrat’s “White Wizard.” Learn about these machines as they can also be profitable.

    Various Tips
    Keep your eyes peeled for dollars left in the trays of machines. Be on the lookout for dollars on the floor. Some trays are designed poorly and the money that spits out goes onto the floor.

    Unless you live in Victoria, avoid poker machines made in 2001 or earlier as there is a possibility that they may only have a return of 85%. Also, avoid random jackpot machines. For people who bet low they are essentially machines with ~85% return.

    Change machines after you have had a big win or the free games as there may be more abandoned cash around the place since you last checked. Also, this slows down your rate of play. Going from venue to venue is a good idea as it provides a fresh place with new opportunities; like swiping your club card.

    Keep a notepad with the breakeven points of mystery progressive jackpots, promotion times, double point times, and opening hours etc.

    People will take whatever they see lying around. Always take your coin cup with you wherever you go. Don’t leave significant credit on your machine, if you need to go to the toilet or something, hit the collet button and put the machine on reserve. Make sure you have your wallet/purse in something that it cannot fall out of; like pants with a zip up pocket.

    You want to choose the days when lots of people play poker machines. A bartender told me recently that Fridays is the busiest day for the pokies. Remember, the more people that are playing, the more opportunities for abandoned credit or to find cash.

    Slowing down gambling
    Take breaks often, this will minimise your time on the machines and therefore your losses.
    Only put $1 in the machine at a time. I.e. if you go to a new machine only put in $1 not $2.
    Wager the $1 down until you cannot bet the usual amount anymore and then put a new dollar in.

    Aim for machines with lots of free games to slow down gambling. If the machine has an option of more free games but less multipliers e.g. Choy Sun Doa, choose the longer free games as the return is the same but the free games take longer.

    Never hit the take win button and let the music play till the end.
    If you have a significant win, hit collect and put the coins in the cup.

    Avoid playing Ainsworth games as the reels spin about twice as fast as the usual kind.

    Half-doubling once on small wins like 5c-10c slows down your rate of play a great deal.

    The obvious stuff
    Only play 1c machines.
    If it’s an option always use a club card.
    Spend most of your time in the place with the most benefits, e.g. the pubs or clubs which offer the most generous point program/promotions.

    Non poker machine advice
    Don’t buy the drinks as the drinks are as big a rip-off as poker machines are. If available, drink free water or free hot drinks from the coffee machine. Some pubs and clubs charge for water and for use of the coffee machine; I would avoid playing at these places.

    If you intend to buy a meal make sure you get a cheap special and make sure you eat at a place that has a salad bar. The salad bar is very important as once you have finished your meal you can plie up your plate as many times as you want with the salad bar. Fill yourself up to the brim. I usually fill my entire plate once or twice with the salad bar. Don’t use the smaller plates for the salad bar; use the big plate they serve your main meal on. If you are having lunch you can skip breakfast and if you are having tea you can skip lunch; for extra value.
    Also, avoid leaving your plate and cutlery alone; the waiters/waitress will take it if you turn your back even for a second…
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Oct 1, 2014
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    LOL....sounds like a scavenger's charter. I think in the UK you'd be labelled a 'shark'. A very interesting piece and I have to say the conclusion I arrive at is 'don't play them'. 85% or thereabouts means your game session on average would last for about 1/3 of the spins/goes you'd expect on a 95% game. I worked out once that playing the same slot on 96% and then 92% would result in only 57% of the goes you'd get from the former, on the latter.
    I'd have to say that any Aussie who has been playing these must be dramatically better-off playing online, same as any UK arcade player used to 82% has noticed.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Oct 1, 2014
  5. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    :rolleyes: Stopped reading here
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Oct 2, 2014
  7. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    I don't play them; usually. The thing is it's situational. Sometimes you are placed in a position where the best available option is to play the pokies.
    I can offer one example. I was visiting a capital city and I missed my bus back to my hometown which was a 3 hour trip.
    At night in a city I knew little about it was either, A: find a hotel to stay the night at, or B: spend the night playing poker machines at the casino. (The casino closed at 6am.)
    In this situation I found it to be cheaper and safer to spend the night low-rolling on poker machines in the casino.

    Yes, you are right about that line. I think at the time I meant it more as an emotional expression; not something literal. Saying something like; Don't be afraid to take advantage of every opportunity, would have been more appropriate.

    Perhaps I should provide more background to why I am doing this strange research. Basically, I have friends who go out regularly playing the pokies, they usually go in with ~$500 and they will drink beer and play until closing time, usually. They do this every few weeks. I went out with them several times in the past with about $50 and found that I was busting out in about 20-30 minutes. So I stopped going out with them saying; I simply can't afford it. This happened about 3-4 years ago, at the time I thought that the pokies were only for people with jobs that pay ~$1000+/week. Back then I was betting between 25c-50c/spin, it never crossed my mind that if I was to bet low and take advantage of every opportunity I could possibly afford it.

    Like in my reply to dunnover's post it seems like betting low and taking advantage of all the opportunities while playing the pokies is the best of my available options, it sure beats excluding myself from socialising with friends. I'm not trying to be thrifty or a "shark" I literally can't afford to play any other way due to my financial situation.
     
  8. Oct 3, 2014
  9. randomiam

    randomiam Meister Member

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    australia
    i play them now and then

    i used to play them alot up until a few years back when they got way to tight at 89% rtp you still could get some decent play time
    but the settings now are horrid you can easily go through $50 in 5 minutes betting 20 cent spins and not even see a feature
     
  10. Oct 3, 2014
  11. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    I was playing the "pokes" recently and a girl who just turned 18 came in with her older brother and she literally had to ask for instructions on how to play because this was her first time. Her brother told her to to simply put the coins in the slot and then told her to just keep on pressing the 25 lines button.

    I think she must have had about $20 on her because her money was gone in about 20 minutes. She went over to her brother and asked him for more money as she had spent all of what she had. Her brother angrily gave her $10 and said don't ask for more because that is all she is getting....

    I think her brother's advice wasn't quite accurate enough. I would have asked the questions: how much time do you intend to play for and how much money can you afford to lose? And since she only had around $20 and stayed for about an hour I would have advised her to only bet between 5c-10c/spin. If this happened her money would have lasted and she wouldn't have got her brother upset. I think this is the advice people are missing in their initial education with with pokies.
     
  12. Oct 4, 2014
  13. randomiam

    randomiam Meister Member

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    australia
    even at 15 cent spins $20 is chewed in ten mins on newer machines igt are the worst for this from my experience. stick to older aristocrat machines like Adonis and geisha. queen of the Nile. king of the Nile. ect there are a few of the aussie pokies online inbox me and ill give you some details there at the old 89 rtp
    and you will see the difference in play since the change.
     
  14. Oct 4, 2014
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I fail to see the social aspect of playing them. I know from the UK arcades that social interaction is the last thing you tend to see, just individuals wrapped up in their little bubble obsessing over the games, complaining and inevitably losing occasionally broken by relieved smiles and babble when they DO win.
    When people are concentrating on losing money as slowly as they can I just can't imagine the riveting conversations that take place..

    You can give me tips on where to find 89% as opposed to 85% all day, and I agree that 4% makes a big difference to gameplay and longevity of stake. But to me it's like comparing a varnished turd to one rolled in glitter if you can play 95-98% RTP games online.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 4, 2014
  17. randomiam

    randomiam Meister Member

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    australia
    i prefer online

    i play land ones if im out for drinks with mates or escaping the other half i check a tenner in.
    normally 99% of my slots playing is online these days more choice of games and no need to deal with beer soaked dollar coins and notes covered in various sh!t
    that and my cash does go abit further
     
  18. Oct 4, 2014
  19. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    Those games were all made pre 2002. Which means there is a possibility they are only 85% games.
    I live in SA and unlike Victoria we don't have the RTP of the machines on the information screens so we can only speculate.

    It's better to play machines made in 2002 or after because there is legislation that says all machines installed after 2001 must have a minimum RTP of 87.5%.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    But, this could only be relevant to people who live in my state, I'm not too familiar with the gambling laws in other states.

    Some people say that machines with higher denominations have a higher RTP. And there is some truth to this; Aristocrat told me: Generally $1/line games are configured the highest. I assume since Aristocrat make gaming machines they have some data about how operators like to configure their machines.

    But, pubs and clubs can legally have dollar denomination machines set at 85%-87.5%.
    Considering my financial situation it makes more sense to assume the worst; that all the machines are set at 85%-87.5% regardless of denomination, unless I see sufficient evidence suggesting otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014
  20. Oct 5, 2014
  21. randomiam

    randomiam Meister Member

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    australia
    rtp

    trp was changed everywhere via the poll network thing in all venues apart from Major casinos like crown in melb that made there own deal .what was georges and tatts are all run from the intralot base now as far as i know so its 84% except big casinos this is victoria settings may be aus wide im not sure
     
  22. Oct 5, 2014
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    My Uncle Bill (must be almost 100 by now), lives in Australia, and when he came to visit he told me about how he was an "expert player" of the Pokies out there. So, it's not just confined to the UK that we have people who go out specifically to play the machines with the aim of winning:D

    It seems it's a bit more "social" out there than it is in the UK, as Uncle Bill takes his "girlfriend" with him, a youngster at around 80 years old. Try that kind of "romantic evening out" in the UK and you will be sleeping on the sofa:p

    The idea of playing low stakes to extend playing time is for when the machines are in some kind of "waiting area", perhaps a train station. Again, it's more an activity for when waiting on your own.

    It seems our choices are limited more in the UK, as although we now have "pokies", they tend to be set at either £1 or £2 per spin, and with 20 lines and a max £500 jackpot. The limits came about because these pokies were sneaked past existing regulations at the time, and they argued that each line was a separate bet of 5p or 10p, and the £500 jackpot represented a maximum £25 payout for each line, as per regulations. Even though these machines have now been allocated their own class, the limits have remained at £500 max payout per single spin, and a max bet of £2.

    The fruit machines have a bigger range, stakes between 25p and £1 for the top £100 jackpot machines, and since they have holds, nudges, and feature games, play time is naturally longer than for the "pokie" style slots. I still prefer the fruit machines, but I often play at 25p so that if I win a lower prize, it is a greater multiple of the stake, so I am more likely to "collect". It has been suggested that the programming might hold back some value when played at higher stakes, or "forced" on higher stakes, and that some 25p play could extract some of this remaining value better than play at £1. It's known that there is sometimes a boost to RTP when selecting the £1 stake, and this has to be shown by the machine to the player, but it doesn't mean that choosing £1 for an extra 6% RTP means you can "make it pay out".

    If there is any social aspect, it's taking a mate out with you to "do the machines". This is something I have done in the past, long before there were online casinos. Now, it's more the aspect of travelling and seeing other parts of the country (as in other parts as seen from the motorway network when moving between machine bearing service stations;) ) that would get me playing B&M at 70% to 90% RTP as opposed to 90% to 96% online. Meeting other like minded "pro" players can also be something of a "social" activity, even if it's just discussing what's just paid out and what has eaten a fortune, or the latest "emptier" that's doing the rounds.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Oct 5, 2014
  25. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    You can't "do" pokies. No more than you can "do" online video slots.

    There is no such thing as a fruitie over here.

    All we have are 86% RTP slots that are made specifically for suckers who know nothing about RTP. All the machines are centrally linked and monitored.

    Vinyls uncle, who I'm sure is a nice man, is just one of thousands and thousands over the years who have told me they can "beat" the machines with their "system". The vast majority have now lost everything they had plus more, and the others haven't quite arrived at that point yet.

    Anyone who thinks they can beat a 86% game is playing with themselves as well as the machines.
     
    4 people like this.
  26. Oct 5, 2014
  27. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Comparing the UK fruities (compensated) and Aussie pokies (random?) is pointless. The only similarity is the futility of sitting there playing them while being almost guaranteed to come away at a loss.
    Vinyl refers too to the B3 pokies we have in the bookmakers which are similar to the Aus. ones and not compensated. I've never played one but the consensus seems to be that these games' reputations are pretty much on par with the issues surrounding pokies in Aus. Unlike a few of the compensated fruities no 'systems' or 'forces' or 'emptiers' here!

    I would say to Vinyl's relative that before embarking on a night out playing the pokies to book and pay for the transport there and back first, buy the food before you start and stick some credit on the bar tab to keep you watered during the session. Then at least you've eaten, drunk and got back despite your wallet being devoid of any folding stuff..:cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Oct 5, 2014
  29. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    I think your statement is generally true. But, I think it's still important to mention exceptions to the rule.
    Exceptions like; mystery progressive jackpots.
    I have also found some places that are probably profitable to play at because of the relatively generous promotions. But not by much, you might be making $1/hour for example.
    Door prizes, lucky machine numbers, double point times and so forth, all contribute a great deal especially if you are betting really low as some promos don't take that into account. A $5 win with a lucky machine number is significant if you are betting only 1c/spin.

    Unless I have misinterpreted your sentence.
    Maybe it's different in your state but Aristocrat advise me: "Once a machine is configured for a payback percentage that is what it’s locked at until the operator requests a designated authority to allow for a reconfigure."
     
  30. Oct 5, 2014
  31. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    He seems to think he can, but it's highly unlikely that he will visit the UK again for me to ask how he has been doing.

    Maybe he has been using a "strategy" of bankroll management that makes it appear that he is beating the odds, very much like those who say betting 1c a line is a strategy for not busting out before it's time to leave.

    I will stick to the fruities, as with compensation, there is a possibility of beating them by gaining experience of how it plays when "dead" compared to how it plays when it's under RTP, and the compensation is beginning to kick in to produce better wins.
     
  32. Oct 5, 2014
  33. petro

    petro Dormant account, per user request PABnoaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    Narnia
    What do you mean by "compensation?" Do you mean; the machine must reach it's RTP at some stage therefore if it has been "cold" for awhile it's a good time to play it?
    That's a dangerous belief to have as each spin is independent from the last. You'll end up losing your shirt! :eek:

    Unless, the machines you are talking about are different from the ones here in Australia (and online.)
     
  34. Oct 5, 2014
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This only works for the fruit machines. They have always been compensated (rigged) in order to stick to a specific RTP and guarantee the operator a long term reliable profit. If they fall below this target, the machine adjusts the probabilities of outcomes such that wins are more likely. If it strays too high, the probabilities of winning are reduced in order to allow the machine to drift back to RTP. It is that aspect that makes them "doable". It relies on the player being experienced enough to interpret a series of outcomes to infer whether the machine is currently above or below it's target RTP. Obviously, the best time to play is when it's currently below it's target RTP, and sufficiently below that the compensator is about to go into "overdrive" and produce a sequence of closely spaced big wins in order to quickly adjust the machine from too low an RTP. This is often called a "streak". This will not work for pokie style games, like those you have in Australia, or most of the £500 5 reel machines we now have here.

    If a pokie playing Australian were to visit the UK, they would need to know this difference so as not to get stuck into a fruit machine that has just been "done", and expect the kind of RTP and random games they get at home. The RTP setting of a compensated fruit machine can be as low as 70%!
     

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