Ask me anything (about slots)!

[Jono777]

What I described worked, trust me

Play at 0.10 credits for £20.00 - £30.00 till the machine literally wants to throw money at you but you've refused all wins along the way and lost the full £20.00-£30.00.

Then increase to £1 per spin (or what you can comfortably afford) and it cost you no more than the same amount again to hit the "Jackpot" (500x??) or Top feature.

No way to lose and a guaranteed profit every time. It would also throw a few more features and boards after the big payout so you could always scrape another 100-200x profit from it also before it went "cold/dead"

 

[Reelsoffun]

What I described worked, trust me

Play at 0.10 credits for £20.00 - £30.00 till the machine literally wants to throw money at you but you've refused all wins along the way and lost the full £20.00-£30.00.

Then increase to £1 per spin (or what you can comfortably afford) and it cost you no more than the same amount again to hit the "Jackpot" (500x??) or Top feature.

No way to lose and a guaranteed profit every time. It would also throw a few more features and boards after the big payout so you could always scrape another 100-200x profit from it also before it went "cold/dead"

@Mr_Slot5 I can also confirm it worked very well using this method.

 

[trancemonkey]

What I described worked, trust me

Play at 0.10 credits for £20.00 - £30.00 till the machine literally wants to throw money at you but you've refused all wins along the way and lost the full £20.00-£30.00.

Then increase to £1 per spin (or what you can comfortably afford) and it cost you no more than the same amount again to hit the "Jackpot" (500x??) or Top feature.

No way to lose and a guaranteed profit every time. It would also throw a few more features and boards after the big payout so you could always scrape another 100-200x profit from it also before it went "cold/dead"

What a massive fuck up... and also, under the 2009 Act, my understanding is that they would be illegal. When were they removed?

 

[Jono777]

What a massive fuck up... and also, under the 2009 Act, my understanding is that they would be illegal. When were they removed?

Not sure mate, think around 2012-2013 as best I recall. Know I got made redundant from a 'lifetime' job in 2011 and was making a few quid from them after that to top up my income lol.

My description as to the 'loop hole' is by no means final, nor perfect, just how I came across the 'emptier' and right at the end of their run.

Guessing it could be a legally based "oh Shit!" scenario as there was no go slow on this one, Most 3 reel AWP's literally disappeared over night, it was that swift.

It was my land based AWP playing experience which led me to try the refuse wins / ramp up RTP trick and I was very surprised too when it actually worked.

Another surprise was that MG not once 'tweaked' and return these slot offerings, they were simply scrapped, never to be seen again which made me think even more something was totally amiss throughout the code, not fixable but easier and cheaper to abandon altogether.

 

[Valhalla]

I'm sure this has already been asked but if it's ok I want to ask it anyway (and I don't have the patience to read through 103 pages to find out ) but...

Say I'm playing Bonanza - which I do regularly - and at 60p it is playing pretty good. I'm winning, I'm getting free spins regularly, it's going well. So I think I'll up the bet to 80p or £1 a spin.
DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.
After a while of frustration, I return to 60p bet and the game carries on being good. Decent wins, free spins etc.

You could of course argue that I should continue playing at 60p bets since it is playing well, but why do slots do that? It's like I'm forced to play at a particular bet otherwise the game will be shit. Bonanza is actually the chief culprit of this nonsense - plays well in 60p bets but as soon as I raise the bet, the game dies. DHV is another one; playing at 80p bets is like pouring money down the drain, but as soon as I lower to 60p; free spins, big wins, yahoo.

 

[The Reel Story]

I'm sure this has already been asked but if it's ok I want to ask it anyway (and I don't have the patience to read through 103 pages to find out ) but...

Say I'm playing Bonanza - which I do regularly - and at 60p it is playing pretty good. I'm winning, I'm getting free spins regularly, it's going well. So I think I'll up the bet to 80p or £1 a spin.
DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.
After a while of frustration, I return to 60p bet and the game carries on being good. Decent wins, free spins etc.

You could of course argue that I should continue playing at 60p bets since it is playing well, but why do slots do that? It's like I'm forced to play at a particular bet otherwise the game will be shit. Bonanza is actually the chief culprit of this nonsense - plays well in 60p bets but as soon as I raise the bet, the game dies. DHV is another one; playing at 80p bets is like pouring money down the drain, but as soon as I lower to 60p; free spins, big wins, yahoo.

It isn't a 'thing'. It's not something slots do. It's more something that evokes an emotional response from you and so sticks in your memory (it's psychology and human nature and actually a massive part of Gambling). You would probably find that, if you had enough data from all of your play, that it actually is quite even

 

[brianmon]

It isn't a 'thing'. It's not something slots do. It's more something that evokes an emotional response from you and so sticks in your memory (it's psychology and human nature and actually a massive part of Gambling). You would probably find that, if you had enough data from all of your play, that it actually is quite even

It's not so easy to write-off as just an 'emotional response', when there's software such as SlotTracker. Which you can use to monitor and analyse your play.
You can start out with a reasonable hit rate, RTP and feature frequency. Nothing over the top, just reasonable/average.
Then just watch those figures change (for the worst) when you bump up the stakes

 

[The Reel Story]

It's not so easy to write-off as just an 'emotional response', when there's software such as SlotTracker. Which you can use to monitor and analyse your play.
You can start out with a reasonable hit rate, RTP and feature frequency. Nothing over the top, just reasonable/average.
Then just watch those figures change (for the worst) when you bump up the stakes

Unfortunately one persons play just isn't statistically significant. To reduce the margin of error down to acceptable levels you need to be looking at at LEAST 100,000 spins, preferably 1 or 10 million or more (see my video here for a practical example of how many spins you really need to start seeing accuracy).

While you may see this pattern, even in your own statistics, it's likely well within acceptable statistical bounds for it to have happened :-/

 

[Playford7]

Sorry if this has been answered already.
But the thread is longer than war and peace.
But are the ‘pub fruit’ series by blueprint compensated in anyway?.
Certainly feels that way.
‘But yes I know, feelings..and all that’ lol

 

[brianmon]

Unfortunately one persons play just isn't statistically significant. To reduce the margin of error down to acceptable levels you need to be looking at at LEAST 100,000 spins, preferably 1 or 10 million or more (see my video here for a practical example of how many spins you really need to start seeing accuracy).

While you may see this pattern, even in your own statistics, it's likely well within acceptable statistical bounds for it to have happened :-/

One person's play is significant to the person who sees the sudden change in play every time the stakes are changed.
You can't just say they're imagining it.
Everything may well balance out over 100,000 spins. But when those 'coincidences' happen time and time again.....

 

[trancemonkey]

Sorry if this has been answered already.
But the thread is longer than war and peace.
But are the ‘pub fruit’ series by blueprint compensated in anyway?.
Certainly feels that way.
‘But yes I know, feelings..and all that’ lol

As I know one of the producers at Blueprint, and I've asked him outright, I can safely say no.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

One person's play is significant to the person who sees the sudden change in play every time the stakes are changed.
You can't just say they're imagining it.
Everything may well balance out over 100,000 spins. But when those 'coincidences' happen time and time again.....

The amount of times I've played slightly higher bets on Novo than I would normally due to a win on another game etc, gone 300 spins without bonus, take the bet down and immediately hit the bonus on the lower bet...(and when I say immediately I mean within 5 spins or so).

Another thing I notice often is when I have a decent session, hit very good bonuses on one stake, when I up the bet if I do get a bonus on the higher stake it's equivalent or worse in cash terms to the good bonuses I was getting on the lower stakes. I often feel there's a 'ceiling' to what I can win.

Of course, just like @The Reel Story says, it could just be in the mind.

 

[The Reel Story]

One person's play is significant to the person who sees the sudden change in play every time the stakes are changed.
You can't just say they're imagining it.
Everything may well balance out over 100,000 spins. But when those 'coincidences' happen time and time again.....

I don't mean personally significant. I mean statistically significant. I.e,there is enough data to prove something one way or another. Statistical significance requires large volumes of data, otherwise, by definition, the result and the conclusion are only anecdotal.

Its impossible for me to stop you feeling the way you feel though. I can only assure you that, as long as you are playing on a reputable regulated Casino, that the behaviour you are seeing is not happening intentionally. It is luck (bad in this case).

 

[The Reel Story]

The amount of times I've played slightly higher bets on Novo than I would normally due to a win on another game etc, gone 300 spins without bonus, take the bet down and immediately hit the bonus on the lower bet...(and when I say immediately I mean within 5 spins or so).

Another thing I notice often is when I have a decent session, hit very good bonuses on one stake, when I up the bet if I do get a bonus on the higher stake it's equivalent or worse in cash terms to the good bonuses I was getting on the lower stakes. I often feel there's a 'ceiling' to what I can win.

Of course, just like @The Reel Story says, it could just be in the mind.

It happens to everyone sadly. I've only ever had one £1 bonus on who wants to be a millionaire (I'm a low roller normally. Did a couple of 'big' spins and hit a bonus) . 80% on the first gamble and i failed it. Rage does not even come close to describing my feelings but it's memorable for so many reasons (the higher stake, the high gamble chance, my rection etc) so I'll never forget it.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

It happens to everyone sadly. I've only ever had one £1 bonus on who wants to be a millionaire (I'm a low roller normally. Did a couple of 'big' spins and hit a bonus) . 80% on the first gamble and i failed it. Rage does not even come close to describing my feelings but it's memorable for so many reasons (the higher stake, the high gamble chance, my rection etc) so I'll never forget it.

Funnily enough that happened to me on Bonanza. Was low rolling on 20p spins and decided to do a few £1 spins. 2 spins in I hit the GOLD. Bonus paid about 60x I think.

 

[trancemonkey]

There is no forced change in play... as I've repeated many times, casinos make MOST of their money from the high stakes players, so why do you think games would suddenly play worse if you staked up?! If we were to do be allowed to do stuff like that, surely we would make it better to stake up!

 

[dionysus]

There is no forced change in play... as I've repeated many times, casinos make MOST of their money from the high stakes players, so why do you think games would suddenly play worse if you staked up?! If we were to do be allowed to do stuff like that, surely we would make it better to stake up!

A Q
income, sure, makes sense, high rollers source/fund casinos
but id gather low rollers are still bread and butter, yes?
I'd suspect high rollers also often jump ship and take that bankroll with them, possibly moreso than low rolllers (aside from bonus hunters)?

 

[trancemonkey]

Casinos need both.

 

[brianmon]

There is no forced change in play... as I've repeated many times, casinos make MOST of their money from the high stakes players, so why do you think games would suddenly play worse if you staked up?! If we were to do be allowed to do stuff like that, surely we would make it better to stake up!

Maybe it also happens to the high stake players too.
It's not a case of what stake you're playing at. It's a case of changing the stake during play.

Another thing which very often happens, especially with MGS games, is, almost immediately after a decent, not huge, win (50x-100x). The game will have either a long lagging spin or give a disconnection error, meaning it has to be reloaded.

After that reload/lagging spin, the game becomes completely dead. Obviously you can't expect another decent win. But suddenly, 8 out of 10 spins are dead spins with the odd 3OAK win. where as earlier the hit rate was around 3:1 with the odd 4OAK/5OAK
It's like you're being transferred to a different server.

So it's not like the game itself is changing anything, more like you're playing a different game, on a different server

I'm not saying that's what's actually happening. But that's what it feels like
But obviously just a huge coincidence.

 

[mack341]

Maybe it also happens to the high stake players too.
It's not a case of what stake you're playing at. It's a case of changing the stake during play.

Another thing which very often happens, especially with MGS games, is, almost immediately after a decent, not huge, win (50x-100x). The game will have either a long lagging spin or give a disconnection error, meaning it has to be reloaded.

After that reload/lagging spin, the game becomes completely dead. Obviously you can't expect another decent win. But suddenly, 8 out of 10 spins are dead spins with the odd 3OAK win. where as earlier the hit rate was around 3:1 with the odd 4OAK/5OAK
It's like you're being transferred to a different server.

So it's not like the game itself is changing anything, more like you're playing a different game, on a different server

I'm not saying that's what's actually happening. But that's what it feels like
But obviously just a huge coincidence.

could it be the game's reel set has changed from giving frequent small wins to one where bigger wins become possible [50-100x] but then to balance the rtp the small win frequency is halved? I experience the same thing on rhino, after say a 40-50x win [40p cheetahs@£20] it often goes dead and takes back the £20 plus more...

 

[goatwack]

Seems to be a lot of recurring negative coincidental gameplay patterns knocking about with slots

Almost as though.........

 

[The Reel Story]

Maybe it also happens to the high stake players too.
It's not a case of what stake you're playing at. It's a case of changing the stake during play.

Another thing which very often happens, especially with MGS games, is, almost immediately after a decent, not huge, win (50x-100x). The game will have either a long lagging spin or give a disconnection error, meaning it has to be reloaded.

After that reload/lagging spin, the game becomes completely dead. Obviously you can't expect another decent win. But suddenly, 8 out of 10 spins are dead spins with the odd 3OAK win. where as earlier the hit rate was around 3:1 with the odd 4OAK/5OAK
It's like you're being transferred to a different server.

So it's not like the game itself is changing anything, more like you're playing a different game, on a different server

I'm not saying that's what's actually happening. But that's what it feels like
But obviously just a huge coincidence.

If the game wanted to transfer you to a different server, it wouldn't need to disconnect and reload. Each request/response is sent independently, so if it wanted to do that, it would just reroute your request at the server side somewhere else. Additionally, it would even need to be a separate server, just a different version of the game logic with worse/rigged results.

This is, of course, NOT what is happening, but the point is, if it were, it wouldn't be done in such an obvious way that you could tell

 

[The Reel Story]

could it be the game's reel set has changed from giving frequent small wins to one where bigger wins become possible [50-100x] but then to balance the rtp the small win frequency is halved? I experience the same thing on rhino, after say a 40-50x win [40p cheetahs@£20] it often goes dead and takes back the £20 plus more...

Not how the games work. While different reel sets can (and are) used, it would be random as to which one was in effect (or based on features of the game). Games don't 'choose' to give you the 'small win' reel set and then 'choose' to give you the big win one. They could, randomly each spin, select one of the two though (if that was a feature of that game). Not really a lot of point though as a well balanced reel set will give you small and big wins in just the right proportion anyway, without the need to change.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

A Q
income, sure, makes sense, high rollers source/fund casinos
but id gather low rollers are still bread and butter, yes?
I'd suspect high rollers also often jump ship and take that bankroll with them, possibly moreso than low rolllers (aside from bonus hunters)?

Also, say a low roller has an average bet size of 40p but then decides to try their luck at £2 spins. If that low roller hits something massive on the higher stake, casinos must surely realise there's less chance of the low roller playing that money back than if the same xstake was hit on the lower bet.

That's just one example of where it'd be in the casino's interest to have some control over stuff like that.

 

[The Reel Story]

Also, say a low roller has an average bet size of 40p but then decides to try their luck at £2 spins. If that low roller hits something massive on the higher stake, casinos must surely realise there's less chance of the low roller playing that money back than if the same xstake was hit on the lower bet.

That's just one example of where it'd be in the casino's interest to have some control over stuff like that.

On the contrary, while they may cash out that initial win, the fact that they got that big win will, for most people, make them come back again (to try and repeat it) and possibly play at higher stakes because a) they have some winnings to play with so feel less bad about losing it and b) to try and replicate what happened last time.

Casino's make money because, in the majority of cases, gamblers put it all back. Maybe not straight away, but eventually.