Ask me anything (about slots)!

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trancemonkey,

Last week we held a private slots tournament in a local casino.
In the tournament we had a starting balance of 10,000 "credits" each, playing novomatics.
From the second round and onwards, no players ever went far below 10,000 and large wins were extremely frequent, I have never seen anything quite like the hit frequence even in online games.

So the question is, can land based casinos change the RTP massively in the players favor as long as it's not real money play?
Cause this is frowned upon online with play money, but in the tournament, even though play money was used during play, the winnings of the tournament were very real.

What games did they use?

 

[4048]

What games did they use?

We were playing Book of Ra which seemed normal. No wack wins or anything.

Semi finals was on Lucky Lady's Charm which started to go out of wack with wins that seemed unnatural to a B&M casino.

And chicago in the end had the same result of wins, wins, wins.

 

[trancemonkey]

I am not 100% sure here but I don't think there is a requirement in most of the rest of the world for Tournament play to run on true RTP's. I also don't know if Novo do special tournament or free play software. Some companies do do "show" software which runs very high and is used at trade shows but again I don't know if those are used for tournament play...

There is also a LOT of illegal Novo software around in certain parts of the world so I don't know where you are playing...

 

[4048]

I am not 100% sure here but I don't think there is a requirement in most of the rest of the world for Tournament play to run on true RTP's. I also don't know if Novo do special tournament or free play software. Some companies do do "show" software which runs very high and is used at trade shows but again I don't know if those are used for tournament play...

There is also a LOT of illegal Novo software around in certain parts of the world so I don't know where you are playing...

At Casino Malta in, you guessed it, Malta.

I have no reason to believe the software is fake I just think they were running tournament RTP and wasn't sure if that really was a thing.

 

[Zes123]

Hi TranceMonkey, great thread.

Perhaps this question was already asked long ago, but even if so, another clarification would certainly help please.

In most slots we have up to 3 parameters we the players can tune: coin value, number of coins and the number of lines. It's interesting and important IMHO to know how they influence RTP and variance. In my view, that's the normal, about 90% cases scenario:
1. The coin value simply changes the total stake, without influencing the RTP or variance, except for the obvious fact that playing GBP 100 per coin would yield MUCH larger variance than playing the same slot 0.01 per coin, but the variance would change linearly-proportionally with that change, in this case 10K times, which is natural and obvious, the same as changing bet size on roulette.
Exception: some games give higher RTP for BIG BETS, and they clearly state it in their help files - so far so good, this parameter is quite simple.
2. Number of coins (sometimes referred as "bet level", e.g. in Bloodsuckers): in my view, in most cases it acts similarly to the coin value, only changing proportionally the total bet size and variance (like in Bloodsuckers, IMHO), without changing the RTP whatsoever, unless specifically mentioned in the game payout/help file: e.g. Jackpot 6000 pays a much higher RTP if played with max coins, and there are plenty of other such slots and even videopokers like Jacks or better. Generally speaking, it's usually preferable to play with max coins, since it never lowers the RTP and sometimes increases it, drastically in cases like Jackpot 6000.
3. Number of lines/bet ways. In my view, it too shouldn't usually alter the RTP, but the more lines the lower the variance (relative to the same overall bet size), e.g. a bet of 1 coin valued 0.01 with 20 lines (overall 0.2) would have a lower (perhaps even much lower) variance, than a bet with 10 coins valued 0.02 with 1 line (given usually the same RTP with the changed number of coins), or a bet with 2 coins valued 0.1 with 1 line. Right?
Unless in some specific slots again we have exceptions (which should be documented in the game's help/payout file), and so I've seen a few slots described as:
93.8% to 96.7%. The more lines are played, the higher the RTP.
95.3% to 96.9%. The more bet ways are played, the higher the RTP.

If you could, please give your insights on this and correct me where I'm wrong. And if you could, please explain it using for example the fun Rival game of Cosmic Quest Ep. 2, IMHO it goes the standard way: RTP never changes when changing the 3 parameters and only the lines amount influences inversely the variance - more lines = less variance.

Thanks anyway and please continue this great thread!

 

[trancemonkey]

Normally neither coin size, line bet or line count makes any difference to the RTP. Games that state ranges (without explaining why) normally do that because there is a range of RTPs the operators can select.

You're right about variance though. Reducing lines makes the game more volatile.

 

[Scott1baird]

Here's one, what is the slot that has a the highest possible payout for minimum stake by the top ten providers?

 

[dionysus]

what does he look like..Google?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yeah lets quest to one's personal goldmine.

 

[robby811]

what does he look like..Google?

I googled canadian Elk and the first result was your Profil Picture

 

[trancemonkey]

Check out the 5000x+ thread. Any game on there

 

[Bloatgoat]

I just dont understand, how i can go from 100 euro up to 2500, and have a negative trend on ANY slot in the same casino. Wether that's 10 euro down to 1 euro a spin, it's all the same. If slots where random, how is this possible? I think i just watched over 750 spins before i blew out of the 2500. This makes me think that there's one big central thing who decides (randomly, lol) who wins and who wins not. Am i right? How could one make 750 spins and not get a decent win out of that?

Online slots are bullshit.

 

[dionysus]

Am i right?

Nope.
But there's about 87 pages of rants and explantations

 

[TheresNoDInBonanza]

How can I lose?! How is this possible!?

 

[Bloatgoat]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Good article. Makes sense. Scumbags.

 

[trancemonkey]

I just dont understand, how i can go from 100 euro up to 2500, and have a negative trend on ANY slot in the same casino. Wether that's 10 euro down to 1 euro a spin, it's all the same. If slots where random, how is this possible? I think i just watched over 750 spins before i blew out of the 2500. This makes me think that there's one big central thing who decides (randomly, lol) who wins and who wins not. Am i right? How could one make 750 spins and not get a decent win out of that?

Online slots are bullshit.

As I've said repeatedly... if slots were rigged, do you honestly think they would be rigged to feel that bad for that long?

 

[trancemonkey]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Good article. Makes sense. Scumbags.

Hahaha... That's the biggest pile of ranty bullshit I've ever read. But at least it amused me

Come on matey... dont do the whole "I read it on the internet so it must be true" (but only if it backs up my belief)

Why is it a good article? It doesn't contain any facts. It contains no proof. It's just a rant. A rant made of lies and untruths.

 

[goatwack]

I'm showing solidarity for the goat that is bloated

#goatstogether

 

[trancemonkey]

I'm showing solidarity for the goat that is bloated

#goatstogether

I feel a new member called Bloatwack may appear soon

#goatbaby

 

[Bloatgoat]

I'm showing solidarity for the goat that is bloated

#goatstogether

Bweeeeeeehh.

Hahaha... That's the biggest pile of ranty bullshit I've ever read. But at least it amused me

Come on matey... dont do the whole "I read it on the internet so it must be true" (but only if it backs up my belief)

Why is it a good article? It doesn't contain any facts. It contains no proof. It's just a rant. A rant made of lies and untruths.

Not to insult your profession of making slots and attaching algorthems, but is'nt that exactly what every casino wants? Hook and keep players playing just enough ? They have such a huge big-data pool of millions of players. They could change the way players win / lose and toss this on a big pile and still have all the "RTP" numbers correct. I'm not sure how to say this. But personally i dislike, the whole server sided idea of gaming. Why cant we just play a slot as it was designed with a slot having it's own RTP or 'game' in that matter?

- Because all these numbers make accountants feel rich and it looks good on yearly presentations obviously. The gambling has evolved from single slot machines to server sided gaming where one could say oh yeah the winnings must be bigger then since your playing world wide... Well i dont believe it. I've tossed over 2500 into a casino and still get a bad outcome or still stick at exactly what i depositted. I mean if i go into landbased, things are completely different. Online calculate's their RTP over a 1.5 billion spins. Landbased over just a 100.000 or so. Online can take weeks before it even starts to spit out winnings, landbased perhaps 3 days.

You might say it's nonsense the article, but i think it's pretty solid, that i am not the only one on the net feeling like this. How many players depositted so much money into slots and eventually lose it all? Man. I've seen people goto jail for stealing money from the company they work. This one particular case was a guy who booked 4x 300.000 euro, and lost it all on slots. Well if i would have a bankroll over over 1.2 million i think i would see a return at some point right? well the guy did'nt.

 

[Guntis]

Personally, I know very well that the gambling business is one of the darkest businesses in the world and I feel amazed by those people who think that the gambling business is crystal clear!

 

[Bloatgoat]

Duh; but the question is if it's even fair or no. Yes they all hide behind their magical, (T)RTP numbers, but they could twist, manipulate and turn it around so that it on paper LOOKS OK but our playing experience is extremely worse.

 

[JGslots]

I have a question relating to compensated cat C or B3 games.

I had a situation on an SG community game this week, I got a jackpot on the base game for £100 jackpot, the other unit triggered the community bonus at exactly the same time.

So I got a jackpot and it repeated and then it said press start to enter community, which paid £60.

Is it compliant that a machine can pay the maximum prize, whilst on the same screen after that win and the repeat to press start for the bonus.

I have also had this happen on a £500 jackpot. I gambled to £500 and the very next spin HAD to award a pot.

It’s kind of like when they had to update Party Time Double Decker as if it spun JP in on the bottom section you knew it had to give at least another win on the top deck on 50p.

How strict are these situations regulated?

Rob

 

[slotmaster]

Ok finally saw walking dead 3 slot video from G2E, So you guys don't have to worry about picking up the rights. I am still for hire by the way.

Actually got the go-ahead from current work for days off as still planning a Vegas trip so can really see what the live slot vibe is like.

 

[trancemonkey]

I have a question relating to compensated cat C or B3 games.

I had a situation on an SG community game this week, I got a jackpot on the base game for £100 jackpot, the other unit triggered the community bonus at exactly the same time.

So I got a jackpot and it repeated and then it said press start to enter community, which paid £60.

Is it compliant that a machine can pay the maximum prize, whilst on the same screen after that win and the repeat to press start for the bonus.

I have also had this happen on a £500 jackpot. I gambled to £500 and the very next spin HAD to award a pot.

It’s kind of like when they had to update Party Time Double Decker as if it spun JP in on the bottom section you knew it had to give at least another win on the top deck on 50p.

How strict are these situations regulated?

Rob

I'm not sure what situation you think is wrong... all the prizes are paid out on separate credits so there is nothing non-compliant going on. In fact, what you describe is exactly what needs to happen.