Q&A Ask Me Anything about Slots (AMA) 2020 with Trancemonkey

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
I can cover this one.

So in general there are 3 parties involved.

Casino - The ones fronting the whole thing that have the end users who sign up, put in money etc
Platform Provider - The ones who provide the accounting and reporting integration to the Casino, and the back end logic for the games. So when you place a bet with the Casino, the Casino sends a message to the Platform saying 'Player X just placed this bet on Game Y, please generate a result and tell me how much I need to pay them back'.
Game Provider - The ones who produce the games, the graphics, the front end, the mathamatical model etc. Sometimes they also produce the back end themselves and integrate it to the Platform, sometimes they will even build it on the Platform directly (although I believe that is rarer now days).

In some instances the Game Provider and the Platform Provider are the same company.

In terms of the contractual relationships, they go like this

View attachment 155468
Where each line is a many to many relationship.

A Casino will have contracts with 1 or many Game Providers and 1 or many Platform Providers.
A Platform Provider will have contracts with 1 or many Casino's and 1 or many Game Providers.
A Game Provider will have contracts with 1 or many Casino's and 1 or many Platform Providers.

Most deals work on a profit share per month, so whatever profit the game makes in a month is shared between the three parties. If the game makes no profit, noone gets any money. Sometimes losses are rolled over to the next month and offset against profits. It depends on the contract.

In general, the numbers are around the following:

Casino - Takes about 70-80%
Platform Provider - Takes about 10-15%
Game Provider - Takes about 5-10%

The better content the Game Provider has, the better the deal they can strike. The more high quality content a Platform has, the better deal they can strike.

Then you have things like exclusives, where the Casino will offer a higher percentage, or a one time fee, for a limited exclusivity period with a game.

This is the most common setup :)
Need to change the thread title to ASK US ANYTHING ;)
 

johnnybagel

Full Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Location
Manchester
I can cover this one.

So in general there are 3 parties involved.

Casino - The ones fronting the whole thing that have the end users who sign up, put in money etc
Platform Provider - The ones who provide the accounting and reporting integration to the Casino, and the back end logic for the games. So when you place a bet with the Casino, the Casino sends a message to the Platform saying 'Player X just placed this bet on Game Y, please generate a result and tell me how much I need to pay them back'.
Game Provider - The ones who produce the games, the graphics, the front end, the mathamatical model etc. Sometimes they also produce the back end themselves and integrate it to the Platform, sometimes they will even build it on the Platform directly (although I believe that is rarer now days).

In some instances the Game Provider and the Platform Provider are the same company.

In terms of the contractual relationships, they go like this

View attachment 155468
Where each line is a many to many relationship.

A Casino will have contracts with 1 or many Game Providers and 1 or many Platform Providers.
A Platform Provider will have contracts with 1 or many Casino's and 1 or many Game Providers.
A Game Provider will have contracts with 1 or many Casino's and 1 or many Platform Providers.

Most deals work on a profit share per month, so whatever profit the game makes in a month is shared between the three parties. If the game makes no profit, noone gets any money. Sometimes losses are rolled over to the next month and offset against profits. It depends on the contract.

In general, the numbers are around the following:

Casino - Takes about 70-80%
Platform Provider - Takes about 10-15%
Game Provider - Takes about 5-10%

The better content the Game Provider has, the better the deal they can strike. The more high quality content a Platform has, the better deal they can strike.

Then you have things like exclusives, where the Casino will offer a higher percentage, or a one time fee, for a limited exclusivity period with a game.

This is the most common setup :)
Thanks for explaining that so well... and with pictures too!

Do you have any stats on what kind of money a regular under the radar game will earn each month compared to say something ever popular and marketed like Starburst? I guess new games might do well initially then tail off and find a regular level apart from the few that become famous.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks for explaining that so well... and with pictures too!

Do you have any stats on what kind of money a regular under the radar game will earn each month compared to say something ever popular and marketed like Starburst? I guess new games might do well initially then tail off and find a regular level apart from the few that become famous.
That's pretty hard to answer because the main factor is the size of the Casino and how many players (and specifically, high rollers) they have.

But (and this is 10 odd years ago) on the average Casino's a new game would do 30k odd profit in its first month, then tail off pretty rapidly from there. By month 3, it'd be doing 1 or 2k profit. Games that have drifted into obscurity would be lucky to get a few hundred profit.

Majority of games did the most of their profit in the first 2 to 3 weeks, that's why game providers churn out content so fast, cause they need to keep the new content coming to keep the profits up. Games that gain popularity or a cult following (like DOA2 or DHV) are the dream, as they will do consistent numbers all the time.

On the bigger Casino's we supplied (888.com within their Casino download client, which was their big thing back then) a game would do 100k odd in the first month.

But as I say, there are many factors (and it was quite a long time ago) so it's really hard for me to give you decent estimates :)
 

neon claws

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Location
Australia
That's pretty hard to answer because the main factor is the size of the Casino and how many players (and specifically, high rollers) they have.

But (and this is 10 odd years ago) on the average Casino's a new game would do 30k odd profit in its first month, then tail off pretty rapidly from there. By month 3, it'd be doing 1 or 2k profit. Games that have drifted into obscurity would be lucky to get a few hundred profit.

Majority of games did the most of their profit in the first 2 to 3 weeks, that's why game providers churn out content so fast, cause they need to keep the new content coming to keep the profits up. Games that gain popularity or a cult following (like DOA2 or DHV) are the dream, as they will do consistent numbers all the time.

On the bigger Casino's we supplied (888.com within their Casino download client, which was their big thing back then) a game would do 100k odd in the first month.

But as I say, there are many factors (and it was quite a long time ago) so it's really hard for me to give you decent estimates :)
those numbers seem really low... you're talking about the total profit brought in per month from a game at all casinos? or are those numbers for a single casino?
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
those numbers seem really low... you're talking about the total profit brought in per month from a game at all casinos? or are those numbers for a single casino?
Single casino. A reasonably sized one (for the time). It really would vary from anywhere from 5k to 50k though, depending on the game, the provider, the theme (branded content always did better), whether it was promoted, if it had jackpots or the casino attached a bonus or free spins.

As I say, this is 10 odd years ago. When I first joined the industry, online slots weren't even a thing, by the time I left, complex bonus rounds were only just becoming a regular feature of slots (most were still basic free spins, or picking bonuses). Also there were many markets that weren't fully opened up yet. So there has been a lot of growth and change since then.
 
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snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Don’t forget they are only supposed to keep 4 or 5% so it just shows how much dough is being whacked through each slot.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Don’t forget they are only supposed to keep 4 or 5% so it just shows how much dough is being whacked through each slot.
You're not wrong. The total amount of money that went through all of my companies systems every year was equivalent to the GDP of a small country.

A small percentage of a lot is still a lot haha.

That said, it wasn't uncommon to have a slot wind up at 70% rtp some months. That's because it only takes a few unlucky high rollers to massively offset the wins of the lucky low rollers.

Likewise slots often made a loss for the opposite reason.
 

Slotplayer83

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Location
World
Can i check in a alternative way the RTP for a provided game other then the help file?

Ive F12'd my way through it (console) but i coud'nt find anything in particular. You have a game version and a server sided version, which proberly holds the magic does'nt it?

It's about Nextgen / Star Clusters.
 

trancemonkey

Ueber Meister
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Location
United Kingdom
Can i check in a alternative way the RTP for a provided game other then the help file?

Ive F12'd my way through it (console) but i coud'nt find anything in particular. You have a game version and a server sided version, which proberly holds the magic does'nt it?

It's about Nextgen / Star Clusters.
I doubt that - unless the RTP setting for the game is sent to the client as part of the game load
 
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