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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by hobobiker, Aug 19, 2007.

    Aug 19, 2007
  1. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    and this is the reply you get ??? am i missing something here
    ...all i wanted was the return for the day at 32Red cos i could not be bothered to add it up on playcheck and it turned into a bloody saga.

    chat as follows :

    Chat Transcript
    Helen: Thank you for contacting us, mark. My name is Helen, how can I help?
    mark: could you tell me what my total wager and the return % was on todays play please? thanks
    Helen: payout percentages are not really a valid figure to quote after a short amount of play, mark. I can tell you but it will be out of context mark: ok tell me i know it was for only 100 spins on a 5 line slot
    Helen: the data does not give that figure so I cant tell you what the percentage was mark: ok can you tell me my total wager returns for today please?
    Helen: all I can see since yesterday is wagering of 30 on The High Life
    mark: ok is that the total wager then 30?
    Helen: you have wagered 30 since yesterday, yes
    mark: thanks and what are the return payouts on that wager?
    Helen: I cannot give you a return on only 30 wagering - it does not translate
    Helen: sorry to disappoint

    mark: what does not translate?
    Helen: you will not be able to get a result when you wager so little - our percentage payouts cover all the play by all the players, so you canot compare this to a few spins on the game
    mark: so if its a 15 deposit and a wager of 30 thats a -15 result which is a 50% return on high life after 100 spins ...is that correct?
    Helen: it roughly indicates that - which is similar to the odds of a coin head
    mark: im not comparing anything., all i asked was what my total wager and returns were for today
    Helen: you have only wagered 30 so that is not enough to give you a payout percentage
    mark: yes it is, if ive wagered 30 then you should be able to tell me the returns ... do you not have the figures?
    Helen: yes we have results of the play but they are not indicative of your results. There is not enough play to warrent an accurate figure for you to use
    mark: ok so the returns for todays play were 50%?
    Helen: you only wagered the 30 so roughly, yes, as you put in 15. It depends on what your bet was
    mark: the reason for the low wager is because the return was low is it not ....if the RTP% was 96% then my wager would have been 200 not 30 .....so the return is relevant to the wager .
    Helen: we cant give you results like this for each individual session - the figures dont work in that way so it would be an inaccurate result if we did tell you it
    Helen: its out of context when compared to our auditors fidning across the board

    mark: why does the % returns depend on the bet?
    Helen: it depends upon the vaLue of the wager
    Helen: 30 is not enough to show your true returns as the value is so small

    mark: im not comparing it to the auditors but i am asking you what my returns were for today thats all.
    Helen: theres not a value that I can give you Mark, I am sorry
    mark: why not?
    Helen: for the reasons I have written above
    mark: so you dont know what my returns were for today then ?
    Helen: no - the play you have done does not show your play accurately
    Helen: anything I quoted would not be correct in that regard

    mark: er. . .i dont understand what you are saying Helen . . .if you know what i have wagered then you should know the % return .. im not asking anything unusual am i?
    Helen: no but I want you to understand that the return means nothing in this small value. There is little point in me giving a value when it does not illustrate what the game return is equal to. Youre not asking anything unusual but I wonder why you wish to know? There is not enough gameplay to represent your returns
    Helen: for August it is a little more in context but you have changed the games you have played which alters the result. Since August 2st your payout percentage is about 96%
    Helen: this is close to what our auditors find across the total play, so its more of a representative figure
    Helen: the wagering is 26,963
    Helen: its far more than just the 30 you requested

    mark: ok so this months figures are 96% return .and todays is 50% .is that correct?
    Helen: the first figure is more accurate considering your play
    mark: but surely both figures are accurate .if i wager 30 and my returns are 15.00 then thats a return of 50% on my total plays today ...its a fact .its a true accurate figure for today only. is it not?
    Helen: yes but it is not something which represents your total play in context
    Helen: anyhow I have tried to explain this so I hope you understand what I have said

    mark: ok thanks Helen
    Helen: no probs
    Helen: bye for now
    mark: bye

    and if you could be bothered to read all that........
    err WTF ... was it an unusual question or am I missing something ????
     
  2. Aug 19, 2007
  3. Kaynos72

    Kaynos72 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    My job sucks
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    I hope you are joking comparing a full month of data vs 30 spins. Even if she would have told you, the percentage of return of your 30 spins that data would have absolutly no value.

    I can go 10 spins without any wins on a slot it doesnt mean that the slot have 0% payout. 30 spins is a ridiculous amount to draw any conclusion, hell 100 spins is too small too, even 1000. You need millions of spins to get a true idea.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 19, 2007
  5. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    so you did not bother to read the post then........i know its long and boring an all ......but the whole point was i was not comparing anything with anything ........32red were doing the comparing..........( why ??? i dunno .)

    that was the point of podsting the thread ...all i wanted were the days figures...... a simple question ... isnt it?

    any why everyone keeps saying 100 spins has no value ????? well the money had a value to me ......and to say "millions of spins to get a true idea" to draw a conclusion .......now thats a figure that has no real value .... ........
     
  6. Aug 19, 2007
  7. Matthew23

    Matthew23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    I think she has given you a good answer and there's not much to add to what she has already said. She has told you that you have wagered 30, you then worked out the percentage yourself and she agreed that it was 50%. She's just trying to explain to you that the percentage payout is not relevant on one short session.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Aug 19, 2007
  9. Kaynos72

    Kaynos72 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    My job sucks
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    I did read the whole thread and yes 100 spins has no value whatsoever. Everyone on this site will tell you the same thing. If you can't accept that having a 50% return in 30 spins is bad i think you should not gamble.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Aug 20, 2007
  11. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Get my Playcheck calculator and you get % on every wager on every game from you playcehck data, search for my threads. You can't get it better than that and you don't need to ask support for figures, :)

    Just remember to always take down you playcheck data so that you have complete historical data for your account.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Aug 20, 2007
  13. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    yes of course you read the whole thread..........which is why you will see it was 100 spins not 30 ......and at no point did i query or not accept or complain about my RTP% .......in fact if you read the thread you will see that i have wagered 27,000 at 32Red in This month alone ...an average of 1350 per day. I have had an average RTP of 96% ...no complaints there either. the reason for the thread was i just asked a simple question about some figures which i was too lazy to add up myself , and it turned into a very long saga.....and one in which assumptions were made about my reasons for asking the question, and another annoying thing was to be told by 32Red (and now you) that 100 spins "has no value whatsover" ????? what the F**k does that mean .......its nonsense ...100 spins has a value , whether its 100 per spin or 50p per spin , saying 100 spins does not have a value when there is a wager on each spin is simply not true.

    Kaynos72;If you can't accept that having a 50% return in 30 spins is bad i think you should not gamble

    err yes i can accept that a 50% return on 30 spins is bad .....no doubts there its well and truly accepted that its bad ...............so dont see your point on that one really????

    but i do agree with you that i should not gamble .........should have stopped bout 25 years ago .....
     
  14. Aug 20, 2007
  15. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    i wasnt moaning about 32red to start with but.....

    but i am now ........even got a bonus round of 10 spins twice and it paid .....nothing .... ...

    whats the f****king point of getting a bonus round thats pays nothing .....
    its just takin the piss .....big time.... i must be stupid if i deposit any more at 32 .........

    anyway 1007 spins today and counting .....apparantly i have to hit a couple of million spins a day to get anywhere near an accurate true representation of their payout percentages .... wot a load of bollocks .... i got 63% on a wager of 400 quid from deposits of over 140 .and about 1000+ spins .....thats a true fact and its complete shite .....no matter how you want to bullshit about number of spins , randomness , probabilities etc.........a complete piss take.... and then to be patronised about it as well .......... bollocks.
     
  16. Aug 20, 2007
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem seems to be that helen took a defensive attitude based on what she THOUGHT you might "do" with a figure, perhaps cut & paste and quote out of context.
    There is no need to be defensive though, any mathematician would point out what Helen did, and the figure of 50% on a 30 wager would not be anywhere near representative of the long term payout. If you had WON from one of the rare good bonus rounds, you might have wagered 30 and WON another 30 - this does not mean the slot pays 200%.
    Rogue casinos are all too keen to use figures in this way to make their games look better than they are, and will selectively quote for periods that show them in a good light.
    Zoozie has a simulation that can predict the payout of most 5 reel MG slots to several decimal places, however the simulation also shows that it can take millions of spins to reach this figure.
    There have been a few times when I have wagered 30 and achieved a 0% return.
     
  18. Aug 20, 2007
  19. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK

    yeah i know what she was trying to tell me , i was just in a pissed off mood , cos of shitty returns an all....rain.....more rain...... and 32red are probably still one of the best online ......cant really fault them , and keep going back to them ...... even after A CRAP weekend . ...

    oh well ....spins in the last 5 days 16,090 ......must carry on ...got to reach the million .....i vill reach zee million ...and then i will prove to the world i was right............16,091........16,092.........16,093 ...................................................................
     
  20. Aug 20, 2007
  21. Matthew23

    Matthew23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    This thread made me curious as to what my own payout % is at 32Red.

    _______________________

    Hi Matthew

    I hope you are well.

    Below are details of your wagering and payout ratio since you have joined the casino.

    Total Wagered 60,201.26

    Payouts 60,037.24

    So that will give you a payout percentage of 99.72%

    If you require any further information then do no hesitate to contact us.


    _________________________________________________________

    That is pretty good considering I always low roll on slots (except for a few crazy sessions :eek:)
     
  22. Aug 20, 2007
  23. kimss

    kimss Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    Norway
    Again people, please download your playcheck data! They have made them available for you, do not miss that chance! I have uploaded a PHP so you can calculate the % on every wager on every machine. I also included an online version in case you do not know PHP yourself. There is no need to have to ask the operator for something you can have true control over yourself, :)
     
  24. Aug 20, 2007
  25. Matthew23

    Matthew23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Hello Kimss,

    How do I download the data? I don't see any option in playcheck to do this :)
     
  26. Aug 20, 2007
  27. shaunm

    shaunm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Advertising Executive
    Location:
    Wigan
    i dont' have one bad word to say about 32red, in 2 weeks i've deposited around 300 and withdrawn ariund 2000 so i must have a decent payout. I don't know how some people lose a lot and some people win alot, i guess its just the way it goes. you hear alot about casino's letting you win a little then taking it all back which is a load of rubbish, i work for a big betting company in the uk that has a casino and i work closely with the casino manager, i am actually the person who creates the bonuses and credits you with them and there is no win/lose switch. i've seen people deposit 200,000 and only lose 1,000 of it and i've seen people deposit 200,000 and lose 130,000 its just the way it is. i agree that there is no point in checking your payout after 100 spins. Helen actually agreed that the pay out was 50% and all she was trying to do was remind you that although its a low percentage, in the next hundred spins it might have gone up to 75%. i personally think you gave her a hard time because basically she admitted that it was a crap payout but she was doing her job in reminding you that the normal payout is higher than that
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Aug 20, 2007
  29. thetic

    thetic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Scotland
    Had a quick look at your Myspace page and your loyalty to your company amazes me :D

    You fancy creating any special bonuses for Casinomeister members?? :thumbsup:
     
  30. Aug 20, 2007
  31. shaunm

    shaunm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Advertising Executive
    Location:
    Wigan
    i'm not actually sure whether your being sarcastic or serious lol i do not promote the company i work for on the site, and i think it's actually against company policy to promote the company i work for as i would basically be taking money back out of the company.

    well i can't create individual bonuses, but obviously if you was on our VIP programme you'd get the weekly & monthly bonus offers. We also took 5 or 6 of our players to Las Vegas last month, i wonder if any of them are on here ;)
     
  32. Aug 21, 2007
  33. thetic

    thetic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Scotland
    Sorry shaunm, yes was being a wee bit sarcastic. Was more alluding to the fact that you are affiliating for a no. of different casinos so no real company loyalty at all. Your company may rethink their policy if they realise that you are promoting competitors while not promoting your own!

    Anyhow, really none of my business anyway so leave it at that...
     
  34. Aug 21, 2007
  35. shaunm

    shaunm Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Advertising Executive
    Location:
    Wigan
    the company does know lol there's a few of us who are affiliates, but say if i advertised our company, sent through a big roller who lost 300,000 i don't think they'd be happy with me taking 30% of that he he
     
  36. Aug 21, 2007
  37. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    any time you have a winning spin on slots, it just buys you more spins, many of which will be losers or poor returns. and losing spins simply eat your chips.

    and hobo it seems you did know about your return on that session, as you knew you lost 15 over 100 spins of presumably a set value. that's crazy it took exactly 100 spins to bust your deposit. and she was right in telling you that any % figure is going to be out of context and statistically meaningless.

    :thumbsup:
     

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