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Arthurian Casino's policy -- If you lose, don't come back!

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by colincaster, Jun 26, 2003.

    Jun 26, 2003
  1. colincaster

    colincaster Dormant account

    A few weeks after getting creamed at Arthuriancasino (despite the generous Neteller bonuses), I decided to give them another try.

    So I deposit 1K, lose it all. Give it another try with 1K: lose it all. Give it another try with 1K -- third time's a charm right? Well, I get up to about 3500 and then I start losing again. Oh well.

    Determined not to have lost three straight times, I put the brakes on and cash out at $1500. It's a small victory, but some days you're grateful even for that. I make sure I've met their T&C before cashing out. Played through enough times? Definitely. Cash out amount acceptable? Yep.

    Regarding the cash out amount: They have a rule that if you're cashing out winnings, it has to be at least Deposit plus 2 X Bonus. This makes sense to me -- they want your winnings to include some actual winnings rather than just the effect of the bonus. My deposit was 1K; the bonus was 200. So my withdrawal of 1500 met this criterion. Or so I thought!!

    Usually -- at least from my limited experience cashing out here :) -- these guys are lightning quick with the cashins. This one drags out, and finally I get a note from CS saying that I haven't met T&C. They aren't confiscating money or anything, but they want me to meet T&C before cashing out. A little sheepish (I do make mistakes from time to time), I get them to clarify what it is I need to do.

    After about three days of e-mails, I finally understand what they are saying. Get this -- they want me to cash out no less than $4200!!

    See, they are including not just my last deposit, but my LAST THREE deposits in their calculations. So $3000 + 2 * ($600 bonus) = $4200! So I was either supposed to lose or to turn my final $1000 into at least $4200! How weird is that?? Obviously pretty weird, because it basically disincentivizes deposits once you lose! If you lose on your first deposit, you'd better be *awfully* lucky the next time around, otherwise you're not permitted a winning session.

    I really can't imagine that they mean to disincentivize deposits from losing patrons, but they certainly have that right. The right to be stupid is a cherished right in civilized society, and it's one I personally exercise regularly. Unfortunately, this weird policy is not spelled out anywhere in their T&C (although they directed me to reread the T&C). To the contrary, the language in their promo T&C is "For all subsequent purchases the terms and conditions will apply to each and every purchase bonus separately."

    Am I an idiot, or does that seem pretty clear that deposits are considered separately? (Okay, false dichotomy -- both may be true!)

    So, I have alerted their management to the weirdness of the policy and the fact that the T&C aren't, um, accurate. If anyone reads their T&C differently from me, please let me know. I don't want to break balls unnecessarily.

    Are they really going to force me either to lose or to turn my $1000 into $4200? I'll let y'all know.

    Peace out,

    Colin (Caster, not Creevey)
  2. Jun 26, 2003
  3. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I've had this happen to me before too Colin, though not there. Usually this happens when you haven't lost EVERY CENT of your previous deposit before you re-deposit and get another bonus. That's where it gets sticky. Be sure you lose every penny of your bankroll before you re-deposit with another bonus. Could this have been the case?

    The only casinos I know of that do cumulative wagering requirements, win or lose, are the cryptologic casinos (Intercasino, William Hill, etc). Even if you lose every cent the month before, you have to complete the wagering from last month's bonus, LOGOUT, and then start wagering for this month's requirements. If you don't logout, it doesn't count past the previous w/r. That's a weird rule!
  4. Jun 26, 2003
  5. colincaster

    colincaster Dormant account

    Excellent thought jpm, but yes, every penny was gone before I made additional deposits.

    I think FL has cumulative wagering requirements (which is also a form of punishing losers), but this is the first I've seen of accumulative cash out levels!

    If this is indeed Arthurian's intent (despite its absence from the T&C), then if I lose my remaining $1500, then next time I make a deposit I will need to run it up to $5600 in order to cash out!

  6. Jun 26, 2003
  7. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I'd start breaking balls if I were you since it isn't clear in the T&C that this would happen. If you get the cashin, then never go back.

    FL doesn't seem to do this. I've lost every penny after a bonus without meeting requirements and not had any issues for the next bonus/withdrawl. Like I said, the only one I've seen do this has been the cryptologic casinos. And they have pretty generous bonuses with decent w/r so I don't mind it there, but probably wouldn't put up with it elsewhere.
  8. Jun 26, 2003
  9. colincaster

    colincaster Dormant account

    Thanks for the support, jpm. I'm still hoping somebody at Arthurian is just a little confused, and will come around. They seem like a good operation overall.

    I didn't mean to knock FL, either. Sometimes their CS is totally clueless and frustrating, but I still play there and consider my experience positive on the balance.

    It was just this month that they made me go back and meet Fortune Room wagering requirements from a previous (totally lost) deposit bonus before cashing in a newer one. I can show you the e-mails if you're interested. They may not apply this policy consistently, but they did at least once.

  10. Jun 26, 2003
  11. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    You collected a 20% bonus every time? LOL...

    Obviously that is BS - they cannot require you to meet the terms of past bonuses if you already lost all your money! Once your deposit and the bonus is lost, the T&C should be considered to have been met for that particular occasion.

    Either the Meister or I can help - let him have first dibs, though... LOL... assuming he agrees with me (which I think is pretty safe).
  12. Jun 26, 2003
  13. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Intercasino and the other cryptologic casinos do the same thing though with their montly match spearmaster.
  14. Jun 26, 2003
  15. colincaster

    colincaster Dormant account

    Thanks, spearmaster!

    I'm going to give them a chance to self-correct first. You guys are a tremendous resource, but I hate to take up your time until I'm certain they're no longer listening to me. I've just requested managerial intervention, so maybe that will take care of the matter.


  16. Jun 26, 2003
  17. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    JPM -

    So I've heard, yes. But as they are not on my list (except for Intercasino) I generally don't do much with Cryptologic casinos.

    Frankly, it's silly because once this fact is known, players will simply migrate to another casino because they won't have to make up wagering requirements from the past.

    Imagine if there is a casino with, say, 20x playthrough - you take $500, get a $500 bonus, must playthrough 20x to collect. But you decide to bet it all on one hand - and lose.

    Who in their right mind is going to make another deposit and try to make up the shortfall of $19 K? Anyone that does is, in my mind, an idiot.

    The smarter thing would probably be to refuse all bonuses... or find a casino which doesn't apply ridiculous terms and conditions to your bonus.
  18. Jun 26, 2003
  19. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk


    Get away and stay very far away from these poeple. They havn't even got a clue as to what their T & C's are and believe me that's exactly how they like it.

    Take your lick but get the hell out of dodge.
  20. Jun 27, 2003
  21. eggroll

    eggroll Dormant account

    Dear Colincaster

    Thank you for your posting, its always good to get feedback.

    Initially we thought that you hadn't played your previous deposits before re-depositing and based our wagering calculations on all the deposits and bonuses made within the time frame.

    After you brought your dissatisfaction to our attention we investigated the matter and realized that you had in fact lost all previous deposits and bonuses before making the final deposit. You had in fact met our wagering requirements and understood them perfectly as we only include deposits and bonuses that have not been lost when determining wagering requirements.

    After the investigation we credited you for your full cashin and gave you a bonus for your inconvenience. We do appreciate it when matters such as these are brought to our attention and apologize for the inconvenience it has caused you. Its players like yourself that help us to bring our service quality to an even higher level.

    We hereby acknowledge our error and thank you once again for you time and patience on this matter. We also wish it to be known that we refunded you before we were made aware of your posting i.e. we responded directly to your email and not as a result of your posting.

    Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.


    Brian and Kaygee
    Cashin Department
    Vegas Partner Lounge
  22. Jun 27, 2003
  23. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber


    All in all & IMHO I think you'd have to be happy with this outcome. Not too many casino's will openly admit to an error, much less post in to an open forum.
  24. Jun 27, 2003
  25. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Devil's Advocate
    That's the way to do it :) Nice going Colin and VPL.
  26. Jun 27, 2003
  27. colincaster

    colincaster Dormant account

    As I had hoped, this was simply a misunderstanding; once alerted, management took care of it. The $100 bonus and the public apology on casinomeister was not necessary, but it shows quite clearly that this is a casino with class and excellent business skills.

    Note also that the time frame of their resolution of the problem was *hours* -- not days or weeks, which is what you often see with such customer complaints at other casinos.

    (And for the record -- I did not alert them to my posting. I believe them when they claim to have solved the problem without external pressure.)

    I think this thread (despite the ominous title) is excellent publicity for their casino and group, as it demonstrates that they welcome feedback and settle disputes promptly, fairly, and generously.

    Other casinos would do well to notice how effectively VPL has just turned a complaint into positive publicity and goodwill. Isn't it crazy that some casinos will behave in just the opposite manner when faced with a problem? Oh well, that's a post for another day.

    Cheers, Arthurian Casino!

  28. Jun 27, 2003
  29. jetset

    jetset RIP Brian CAG

    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Great to see positive and fair decisions from online casinos that have a sound business approach.

    And good for you CC for keeping your cool and stating your case clearly - I am pleased that your hassle has been resolved.
  30. Jun 27, 2003
  31. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I give credit to the casino for stepping up and doing the right thing, and admitting it publicly as well. WTG!

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