Are YOU Money laundering? I know I am....LOL

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya. Here is part of the definition of wikiki.
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[edit] Laundered or not?
Money obtained by an illegal action is not, of itself, laundered money. The laundering offence comes from the attempt to conceal its source, not because the transaction was itself illegal (which is a separate offence).

The Supreme Court of the United States on June 2, 2008, rendered two judgments in favour of defendants, narrowing the application of the federal money-laundering statute.

In a unanimous opinion written by Justice Clarence Thomas, the Court reversed Acuna, Mexico's Humberto Cuellar's conviction and ruled that "hiding $81,000 in cash under the floorboard of a car and driving toward Mexico is not enough to prove the driver was guilty of money laundering; instead, prosecutors must also prove the driver was traveling to Mexico for the purpose of hiding the true source of the funds." That is, the prosecution had not made its prima facie case. The Court further ruled "that federal prosecutors have gone too far in their use of money laundering charges to combat drug traffickers and organized crime; that money laundering charges under the Money Laundering Control Act of 198, Sec. 18 U.S.C. 1956(a)(2)(B)(i) apply only to profits of an illegal gambling ring and cannot be used when the only evidence of a possible crime is when a courier headed to the Texas-Mexico border with $81,000 in cash proceeds of a marijuana transaction; it cannot be proven merely by showing that the funds were concealed in a secret compartment of a Volkswagen Beetle; instead, prosecutors must show that the purpose of transporting funds in a money laundering case was to conceal their ownership, source or control; the secrecy must be part of a larger design to disguise the source or nature of the money."

Later, in a divided decision, the Court reversed the convictions of Efrain Santos of Indiana and Benedicto Diaz for money laundering based on cash from an illegal lottery. In the plurality opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that the law referred to the "proceeds of some form of unlawful activity; paying off gambling winners and compensating employees who collect the bets don't qualify as money laundering; the word proceeds in the federal money-laundering statute, 18 U.S.C. 1956, and 1956(a)(1)(A)(i) and 1956(h), applies only to transactions involving criminal profits, not criminal receipts; those are expenses, and prosecutors must show that profits were used to promote the illegal activity." Congress clarified the meaning of the statute in the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act of 2009, defining proceeds explicitly to include both profits and gross receipts.

Congress enacted the 1986 statute after the President's Commission on Organized Crime stressed the problem of "washing" criminal proceeds through overseas bank accounts and legitimate businesses. It imposes a 20-year maximum prison term.
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According to Nashvegas, and maybe others, a lot of us are guilty of this. I am. There are Entire countrys, states, and so on where, "It is Illegal to gamble on the internet". However, a lot of Casino's will have this on their download page, "The customer is responsible to follow the laws of their jurisdiction". Being, you can download, and deposit, and play, and get paid, even though it is against the law where you live.

There are many Casino's that accept players from America, but NOT from certain states. A lot of the time, Nevada, is one of those states. That has never stopped me. Has it stopped you? The fact is, if i can download it, and open an account, and have ameans to deposit into it, and a withdraw means, I DO NOT CARE if i am Technically violating the law. Last night i downloaded a Song from Limewire. I admit it, so send me to jail.......:rolleyes:

So, we go get a prepaid debit card. We register with some sort of money processor, "not in our country", and have them take the money off the Card. Then we log into a Casino, and transfer the money from the money processor into the Casino. Then we Gamble on the internet. If we Win, we have the casino send the money back to the Money processor, or send us a check. We then deposit this back onto our card, or/and, then into our bank acct. Money Laundering process complete........:thumbsup:
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Here is what a check stub from Bodog Casino in Canada says:
".....To avoid any unnecessary inconvenience when depositing or cashing this check, if asked, simply explain that this is a payment from a large online service provider and that the funds were sent to you at you request.
sincerly, epf customer finacial services.........Germany.
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The point of this post is this. No matter where in the world you live at, it is possible you are at some point in time violating a Law. When i did my Tax return, i accidently forgot to clain the money i Won gambling on the internet. When i deposited my checks, i forgot to brag to the bank manager what a great internet gambler i am. When i wired money thru the e wallets and such, i forgot to demand that they put the Gambling code on the transaction............

SO WHAT? If a person has to jump thru some hoops once in a while, or use a roundabout way to get their money, WHO CARES? If, "YOU" care, then go join the FBI, international police, or whomever, instead of coming here and telling us we are Money Laundering. Because we are, and we don't care...
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
Hiya. Here is part of the definition of wikiki.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

According to Nashvegas, and maybe others, a lot of us are guilty of this. I am. There are Entire countrys, states, and so on where, "It is Illegal to gamble on the internet". However, a lot of Casino's will have this on their download page, "The customer is responsible to follow the laws of their jurisdiction". Being, you can download, and deposit, and play, and get paid, even though it is against the law where you live.

There are many Casino's that accept players from America, but NOT from certain states. A lot of the time, Nevada, is one of those states. That has never stopped me. Has it stopped you? The fact is, if i can download it, and open an account, and have ameans to deposit into it, and a withdraw means, I DO NOT CARE if i am Technically violating the law. Last night i downloaded a Song from Limewire. I admit it, so send me to jail.......:rolleyes:

So, we go get a prepaid debit card. We register with some sort of money processor, "not in our country", and have them take the money off the Card. Then we log into a Casino, and transfer the money from the money processor into the Casino. Then we Gamble on the internet. If we Win, we have the casino send the money back to the Money processor, or send us a check. We then deposit this back onto our card, or/and, then into our bank acct. Money Laundering process complete........:thumbsup:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what a check stub from Bodog Casino in Canada says:
".....To avoid any unnecessary inconvenience when depositing or cashing this check, if asked, simply explain that this is a payment from a large online service provider and that the funds were sent to you at you request.
sincerly, epf customer finacial services.........Germany.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The point of this post is this. No matter where in the world you live at, it is possible you are at some point in time violating a Law. When i did my Tax return, i accidently forgot to clain the money i Won gambling on the internet. When i deposited my checks, i forgot to brag to the bank manager what a great internet gambler i am. When i wired money thru the e wallets and such, i forgot to demand that they put the Gambling code on the transaction............

SO WHAT? If a person has to jump thru some hoops once in a while, or use a roundabout way to get their money, WHO CARES? If, "YOU" care, then go join the FBI, international police, or whomever, instead of coming here and telling us we are Money Laundering. Because we are, and we don't care...
Thanks for the education, news and entertainment:rolleyes::lolup::rolleyes:
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
If that's money laundering then so is ebay auctions, paypal, transferring money to and fro using western union and money gram as well online, even to a friend or family member. If you really stop and think about it according to their definition, most transactions online could to some degree be considered as money laundering...it's all a crock of shit really! ;)
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Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I live in a country where gambling online is not illegal. And not taxable. Since the US taxes gambling winnings, why they don't just allow people to claim on their tax returns, I don't know.

I'm a little surprised that Canada has not outlawed it. The government is not losing money on tax revenues, but they are losing money from the (largely) government run casinos.

Canada is now getting plastic money, just like Austrailia.
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.

Now if we launder it, it will not fall apart.:rolleyes:
 

bryand

Beach Bum
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Just Across the Hudson River
I live in a country where gambling online is not illegal. And not taxable. Since the US taxes gambling winnings, why they don't just allow people to claim on their tax returns, I don't know.

I'm a little surprised that Canada has not outlawed it. The government is not losing money on tax revenues, but they are losing money from the (largely) government run casinos.

Canada is now getting plastic money, just like Austrailia.
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.

Now if we launder it, it will not fall apart.:rolleyes:

When claiming gambling winnings (and losses) on US tax forms it is not necessary to state where the winnings originated.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: RobWin is right on. If your daugher was going to throw out her barbie Dolls, as she has outgrown them, and you tell her, "Just sell them on E-Bay", and make some money". So she does. She gets the money, and sends them to Lee, Mi Kim, in S. Korea. Done an Done.

Both of them just broke the Law. It is Illegal in S. Korea, "i know, i spent 8 years there in the Army", for Koreans to buy things not made in korea, unless it was imported, and taxes paid, to the government. And yes, if the Feds had their way, there would be no such thing as Western Union. They once said that a good part of Money sent from Nevada to Mexico thru Wstern Uniion was sent as funding for the drug cartels............

The whole point is that there is no difference between handing the On Line Casino money directly, or sending it through 5 different places to get it there, and back again. It is still money obtained from Internet Gambling........

There is a possible New method of getting money into your Casino acct., and that is the reason for this, and the last few post i made......:thumbsup:
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
WHO CARES? If, "YOU" care, then go join the FBI, international police, or whomever, instead of coming here and telling us we are Money Laundering. Because we are, and we don't care..........
HIYA,.......The creed of another internet "I'm bad as hell" keyboard.:thumbsup:.........I'll pretend to ignore your Jihad like demand until you own this forum,yes!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:...HEHEHEHEHEHE not WE!!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
In this case, there can be NO charges brought against the PLAYER for "money laundering", since it relates to PROFITS, rather than RECEIPTS. The "House always wins" principle can be PROVEN in court by expert witnesses (casino mathematicians). Only the CASINO can be prosecuted, since only THEY are guaranteed a profit over the long term. The transactions are RECEIPTS, rather than PROFITS, so if concealment of the source and purpose of RECEIPTS is not enough for a charge of "money laundering", then this CANNOT be made to stick. The act of gambling itself is NOT illegal in most states.

This might be why there is no prosecution of players, but the targets are the operators and processors. Operators have been charged after proof was obtained of them accepting bets from one of the states where the act of gambling itself is illegal, and further, they have used a sports bet to ensure the wire act can also be used in their argument.

The tax position for players is based on tax years, where they either claim losses or profits. It seems very odd that a tax is imposed on what is a GUARANTEED losing activity in the long term. The aim was probably to tax the really big wins where the player was unlikely to make a lifetime loss because of it's size.

Here in the UK, the OPERATORS have always been subject to the gambling taxes, and PLAYERS have never had to worry about declaring them for tax purposes. VAT is collected from "Fruit Machine" play through the operators, and annual duty is payable on the machines themselves. Horse Racing used to have a special levy applied that went to support the racing industry, without which, there would be no races to gamble on. This was collected through the bookmakers, and punters could pay on the bet, or pay a levy on any winnings.

This way, the UK does not suffer the same tax problems as the US as a result of more activity shifting offshore. Instead, the UK tried to bring operators ONshore, so that taxes could be collected on GLOBAL activity. Unfortunately, by setting the tax rate too high compared to other countries, the UK government "screwed up" the opportunity. They could not understand the concept that 2% of 1,000,000 is more than 15% of 1,000 - the US has a similar opportunity to collect a small tax on a HUGE revenue stream by going for regulation. Many of the operators will be driven to move because the kudos of being regulated by the US will bring them so many players. Many casinos moved into Malta (rather than the UK) BECAUSE it gave them full access to the EU at the CHEAPEST TAX RATES.

UK players have no need to conceal our gambling transactions or winnings because of the UK regime of regulation. This also means that concealment of gambling transactions is NOT blurring the trail of laundered/concealed proceeds of other criminal activities, such as drug and people trafficking.
 

Cant_Get_Right

Banned User
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Location
Atlanta
the US has a similar opportunity to collect a small tax on a HUGE revenue stream by going for regulation. Many of the operators will be driven to move because the kudos of being regulated by the US will bring them so many players. Many casinos moved into Malta (rather than the UK) BECAUSE it gave them full access to the EU at the CHEAPEST TAX RATES.

Vegas, Atlantic City, or Mississippi would have never went for this. Europe doesn't have anything remotely close to Las Vegas. Though RTG (which I worked for) was located in Atlanta.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Vegas, Atlantic City, or Mississippi would have never went for this. Europe doesn't have anything remotely close to Las Vegas. Though RTG (which I worked for) was located in Atlanta.

That's the problem with a powerful interest group. It would NOT be in the interests of the B & M casinos to have widespread legal ONLINE competition, however, the B & M operations could join in, and should be trusted more by US players BECAUSE they are a US brand that has been around for a long time.

Provided the B & M operators can be convinced it would work to their advantage, they would push for regulation with low taxes. They would still lose B & M customers, but could replace them by online customers from around the world, also drawn by the branding and perceived reliability.

There are interest groups even here that don't like the idea of the internet offering what they offer. Many have decided to join in, rather than try to turn the clock back.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
yline: Jeff Simpson

Oct. 2--MGM Mirage on Tuesday began taking wagers on its Isle of Man-based Internet casino, MGM Mirage Online President Bill Hornbuckle said.

Of course, you can't gamble on the site, not if you live in Las Vegas. Or Nevada. Or the United States, Canada and much of the Western Hemisphere.

Add in China, Japan, Australia, Germany and France and a number of other places with anti-gambling laws that the Las Vegas-based casino giant can't risk violating, and much of the world's Internet gambling market is closed to MGM Mirage's Web


This was several years ago, and it failed miserably. Part of the perspective is, "Well, if the MGM could not make it work, what makes you think any other company from America can?" To many regulations. To many restrictions. To many private interest wanting a piece of the pie. :mad:
 

Cant_Get_Right

Banned User
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Location
Atlanta
That's the problem with a powerful interest group. It would NOT be in the interests of the B & M casinos to have widespread legal ONLINE competition, however, the B & M operations could join in, and should be trusted more by US players BECAUSE they are a US brand that has been around for a long time.

Provided the B & M operators can be convinced it would work to their advantage, they would push for regulation with low taxes. They would still lose B & M customers, but could replace them by online customers from around the world, also drawn by the branding and perceived reliability.

There are interest groups even here that don't like the idea of the internet offering what they offer. Many have decided to join in, rather than try to turn the clock back.

I honestly believe beside Poker. Online Casino has ran their course.
 

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