Are you a Highroller? BEWARE of CASUMO

[colinsunderland]

To be honest, if it gets to the stage a casino are that suspicious about the source of funds, a SAR should be submitted. O cannot see how Casumo are not in breach of the GDPR if what has been said is true.

 

[Rita Elees]

Casumo is licensed in Malta, they also built nice "Unicorn House" office for themselves. Malta is a Mickey Mouse country in terms of enforcing any laws, yet alone licensing rules. So Casumo just f***ing you over and it does to everyone. I've been in your shoes, closed my account lately (over xx thousands lost). While you are losing all fine but once you slow down they will just lock you and requests tons of documents. AVOID AT ALL COSTS. We should pay them a personal visit, its just next to Greens Supermarket

 

[nikantw]

"We have to make sure that the money come from legal source" they say.
Ok, how? Lets say bank robber Joe agrees to send his ID and a signed letter to your customer for the iphone he bought from him last year.

How exactly will you find out that Joe is a bank robber? Are you going to do KYC and SOW on Joe who isn't your customer?
Are you going to ask from a PI to fully investigate Joe's life?

I don't think so. So you don't have to make sure. You don't have to know. You just decide what information is enough to "cover" you legaly.
In that case, since nobody can legaly be forced to provide 3rd party documents, nobody can legaly force you to request them.

 

[miksaxxx]

And 3rd party can write small letter to Casumo:

Under GDPR, he/she don't want Casumo to ask nothing about him.

That letter Casumo need's to just swallow.

 

[maxd]

... Malta is a Mickey Mouse country in terms of enforcing any laws, yet alone licensing rules. ...

No doubt Malta has its problems but the MGA has been working quite hard at firming up the licensing and compliance side of things. Perfect they are not but in a world full of __really__ dodgy and criminally negligent "licensing" jurisdictions the MGA is actually a rare and leading beacon of hope.

FWIW I speak from personal experience on this haven taken many cases to them in the course of my PAB work over recent years. They are good and getting better so I'd say a little credit where credit is due would not be out of order.

 

[trancemonkey]

The problem, as has been mentioned, is that casinos are forced to cover their own backs with ever more checks.

It's all been covered here, but this is not just a casino problem... this will be any casino I'm a highly regulated market within the EU.

They must be as certain as possible that the money you are playing with come from legitimate sources.

Now, you may know these poker nights and poker buddies and it may well all be above board and legit, but from an AML perspective, it raises many red flags, and they are (probably) well within their rights to ask for information on the people you got the money from.

Invasive - yes
Sadly necessary in today's climes... yes

 

[Lobo]

Just a quick update... I am 98,2% sure that the reason for Casumos actions are due to 'Problem Gambling' and not money laundering (or anything else related to money laundering). Just to put that to rest.

I have clearly shown signs of being a problem gambler the past months and I think they took a very good look at my account and the SOW I did back in early 2018, and they saw that the SOW should not have been passed. I took a look at it now, and it did not justify my play back then; A paycheck for a smaller amount + a printscreen of a medium win from an other casino. And it came after I had deposited around €400k.

My guess now is that they have somewhat realized that they have failed their obligations to "stop" and notice problem gambling, and the SOW from earlie 2018 should not have passed, and therefor they slapped me with an impossible SOW now to get rid of me (and make som quick extra bucks on the way).
I also got a new VIP manager in 2019. What happend to my old VIP manager (which I liked very well) Casumo would not say.

The past days I have been sent promotions and text messages from Casumo to have me to deposit. Knowing that my account is locked for withdrawals made me mad, so I sent my VIP manager a quick message last night:

"Dear XXXX, please stop sending me SMS's with bonuses and promotions... we both know I'll not deposit at Casumo again. You should not send stuff like that to a "problem gambler"..."

Today I woke up with an email from Casumo. Title: Your Account is now permanently closed.
The email had a huge waving hand in it at the top, lol. Further the email had a bunch of information where to contact if I have problems with gambling.

That my account is closed does not matter at all. I know I have settings in my account to control if I want to recieve promotions or not, so I had it coming after sending that email.

My VIP manager has stopped answering my emails.

Note: Casumo was fined £5.85m in late 2018 for not noticing problem gambling.

 

[colinsunderland]

Now, you may know these poker nights and poker buddies and it may well all be above board and legit, but from an AML perspective, it raises many red flags, and they are (probably) well within their rights to ask for information on the people you got the money from.

Invasive - yes
Sadly necessary in today's climes... yes

How do you think that to be the case? Ask what it is for, yes, ask for ID from the customer relating to third parties? How can they possibly have consent to process the data when they haven't actually spoken to, or contacted, the data subject?

 

[colinsunderland]

Just a quick update... I am 98,2% sure that the reason for Casumos actions are due to 'Problem Gambling' and not money laundering (or anything else related to money laundering). Just to put that to rest.

I have clearly shown signs of being a problem gambler the past months and I think they took a very good look at my account and the SOW I did back in early 2018, and they saw that the SOW should not have been passed. I took a look at it now, and it did not justify my play back then; A paycheck for a smaller amount + a printscreen of a medium win from an other casino. And it came after I had deposited around €400k.

My guess now is that they have somewhat realized that they have failed their obligations to "stop" and notice problem gambling, and the SOW from earlie 2018 should not have passed, and therefor they slapped me with an impossible SOW now to get rid of me (and make som quick extra bucks on the way).
I also got a new VIP manager in 2019. What happend to my old VIP manager (which I liked very well) Casumo would not say.

The past days I have been sent promotions and text messages from Casumo to have me to deposit. Knowing that my account is locked for withdrawals made me mad, so I sent my VIP manager a quick message last night:

"Dear XXXX, please stop sending me SMS's with bonuses and promotions... we both know I'll not deposit at Casumo again. You should not send stuff like that to a "problem gambler"..."

Today I woke up with an email from Casumo. Title: Your Account is now permanently closed.
The email had a huge waving hand in it at the top, lol. Further the email had a bunch of information where to contact if I have problems with gambling.

That my account is closed does not matter at all. I know I have settings in my account to control if I want to recieve promotions or not, so I had it coming after sending that email.

My VIP manager has stopped answering my emails.

Note: Casumo was fined £5.85m in late 2018 for not noticing problem gambling.

I would send them a subject access request, see what the notes on your accounts actually relate to.

 

[Lobo]

I would send them a subject access request, see what the notes on your accounts actually relate to.

I did that a few days ago:

"Dear Casumo, I wish to make an access request under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) for a copy of any information you keep about me, electronically or in manual form in relation to my account at Casumo.

Kind regards,
xxxx"

Support replied that I would recieve ut 9. october at the latest.
It is very easy for them to doctor and remove content, but we'll see what I get.

 

[trancemonkey]

How do you think that to be the case? Ask what it is for, yes, ask for ID from the customer relating to third parties? How can they possibly have consent to process the data when they haven't actually spoken to, or contacted, the data subject?

I'm no expert, but I would say they absolutely have the right to ask who the people are you got your money from. Just like i would expect that they would have every right to check to see if your employer actually existed.

Unless someone here actually knows AML rules and can comment though, we are pissing in the wind a bit ..

I agree its massively crap... but they would rather lose 1 customer than be fined millions I'm sure.

 

[colinsunderland]

I'm no expert, but I would say they absolutely have the right to ask who the people are you got your money from. Just like i would expect that they would have every right to check to see if your employer actually existed.

Unless someone here actually knows AML rules and can comment though, we are pissing in the wind a bit ..

I agree its massively crap... but they would rather lose 1 customer than be fined millions I'm sure.

Yes but not ask for copies of their ID. Thats quite different to 'what is this payment for'
If, for example, you bought a phone from someone on ebay, and paid by bank transfer, then a month later the seller emailed you asking could you email over a copy of your passport, what would you say?
If they are that suspicious about source of funds, that they want statements and ID from third parties, they should be submitting a SAR, not doing what they have in this case.

Lets not forget, they are that concerned about the source of funds, be it RG or AML, they still allowed him to deposit. So if he was a problem gambler - happy to take the money. If he was a criminal - happy to take the money. If he wins, can't get paid. Sorry but thats dodgy as f**k.

 

[Lobo]

Lets not forget, they are that concerned about the source of funds, be it RG or AML, they still allowed him to deposit. So if he was a problem gambler - happy to take the money. If he was a criminal - happy to take the money. If he wins, can't get paid. Sorry but thats dodgy as f**k.

And exactly this is (was) the primary issue with this whole shitty case...
Happy for me to deposit while a serious SOW are under build up, but locking withdrawals.... and then locking the account and take the money left in it - knowing very well it is impossible for me to complete the SOW.

IF this case turns out to be money laundering or problem gambling... Casumo has failed hard either way, and I think they see that. My VIP manager dont, but Payment guys higher up do.
Over €700.000 has already been deposited over a period of 3 years.

 

[colinsunderland]

And exactly this is (was) the primary issue with this whole shitty case...
Happy for me to deposit while a serious SOW are under build up, but locking withdrawals.... and then locking the account and take the money left in it - knowing very well it is impossible for me to complete the SOW.

IF this case turns out to be money laundering or problem gambling... Casumo has failed hard either way, and I think they know that.
Over €700.000 has already been deposited.

They should tell you why they are requesting SOW, if it's AML they aren't allowed to use that information for any other purpose, well at least under UKGC rules, not sure if its the same in other jurisdictions.

 

[Lobo]

I asked, and they replied "We suspect you of nothing wrong... but (insert som bullshit about regulation and licenses here)"

 

[Kroffe]

I suppose these things are more likely to happen to highrollers who put alot of money thru casinos.
But is there anything stopping casumo from asking the same from a lowroller like me?
Just seems weird they can ask for an more or less impossible source of wealth.
Like others have said, there is a good chance its not even possible to produce the id:s from the people who have made transactions to you.
Thumbs down.

 

[bowki]

After all they are an online casino and not a investigating authority. No chance in hell they have the right to demand private information about third parties.

 

[Lobo]

They are at least very confident that they are allowed to do so. They have confirmed it to me 5 times.
No doubt this is a special case, but according to themselves they have the right to do so regardless of the case and scope.

Be careful about sending them bank statements that contain transfers from other people. If they see a transfer to your account that is not your salary you might have a hard time.

 

[trancemonkey]

After all they are an online casino and not a investigating authority. No chance in hell they have the right to demand private information about third parties.

Actually, they do. My guess is the amount we are talking is in the many thousands, not a few hundred...

 

[bowki]

But if they think Luckylobo is laundering money and is part of a criminal network its not their job to investigate. They aren't the police or any other authority. They are just a company.


Im surely no expert, but I just can't imagine that sending third party information to a company in another country is legal under any circumstances.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Couple of things...

1) The timing is bad.....to ask for further information when a large withdrawal rocks up will get peoples backs up and start to question why.

Not directed specifically at you Casumo but too many Casinos are using these rulings to their advantage and not what they are intended for - again, not saying that is you Casumo but arguably, your timing is bad and raises questions - Credit to you for being proactive and sending that recent email regarding requests for information to your customers.

2) @trancemonkey is correct - the only question that needs answering is 'Are casinos entitled to ask for 3rd parties information under the anti money laundering rules and regulations?' - all data processes fall under those rules and guidelines. If so, Casumo cannot justify or validate their requests as its not their ruling. They also cannot be seen saying 'we know its not fair, but we gotta ask for it'.

 

[bamberfishcake]

But if they think Luckylobo is laundering money and is part of a criminal network its not their job to investigate. They aren't the police or any other authority. They are just a company.


Im surely no expert, but I just can't imagine that sending third party information to a company in another country is legal under any circumstances.

The anti money laundering policies in the UK are crazy. You get less for murder than fraud and money laundering.

 

[Lobo]

It might be irrelevant, but I'll be totally clear with you: I have not been laundering money at Casumo. Every single cent has been taxed.
I am positive this is due to signs of problem gambling and a somewhat failed SOW back in 2018.
I guess my VIP account has gone under the radar for some time.

If I was laundering money I would not have done it this way

I'll promise you we'll get the answers. Might take some time, but we'll get them.

 

[bamberfishcake]

It might be irrelevant, but I'll be totally clear with you: I have not been laundering money at Casumo. Every single cent has been taxed.
I am positive this is due to signs of problem gambling and a somewhat failed SOW back in 2018.
I guess my VIP account has gone under the radar for some time.

If I was laundering money I would not have done it this way

I'll promise you we'll get the answers. Might take some time, but we'll get them.

For the record and I dont think you personally meant me but i dont think you have been money laundering. If you had I dont think you would be dicsussing it in a forum. I like to think you would be on the run somewhere in a disguise like groucho marx

 

[Lobo]

For the record and I dont think you personally meant me but i dont think you have been money laundering. If you had I dont think you would be dicsussing it in a forum. I like to think you would be on the run somewhere in a disguise like groucho marx

I've always liked ghostbusters, so I definitely be dressed up as ghostbusters

No worries, mate - I just read so much about money laundering here, so I just had to reply.