Question Are features of slots pre-determined before the feature has played out?

mrshyguy

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Location
london
Hi all
just wondering about features on slots being pre-determined on the total payout, Example being if you played say one pound per spin, then get free spins feature which totals to 20 pounds. but if your stake was 2 pounds per spin then get the same feature but the payout was exactly the same ie: 20 pounds. we have all been there when we increase our stake when the wins keep dropping in, but for me as soon as you increase your stake and get lucky to get say for example free spins feature, the larger wins just disappear, so overall regardless of stake size has the grand total payout of a feature already been predetermined.
I hope this makes sense on what I'm asking

cheers
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
On most providers, the total payout for the feature is known before you start the bonus, and what you are watching is just eyecandy.
But its not known before making the spin that lands you the bonus.

In your scenario, if the €2 feature was predetermined to pay the same as if you were betting €1
Wouldnt players be able to get an advantage by dropping the bet to €0.10 and still get bonuses that paid equal to €1/spin bonuses?
How/when would the slot decide what betsize to base your features on?
 

JGslots

Ueber Meister
webmeister
PABinit
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
Wales
I get what you’re saying, but I think stake is irrelevant.

Adding further confusion...
Take for example East Coast Vs West Coast

you are awarded the bonus and you can choose which set of spins to gun for.

One could pay X5 stake the other could pay X1000 stake.

Which is the best strategy? Does continuously taking the lower variance spins lead to you never seeing the expected RTP?

I know on some slots it tells you in the help file what the best strategy is and it’s reflective RTP’s.
 

JGslots

Ueber Meister
webmeister
PABinit
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Location
Wales
We are playing the brand new exciting release...

Kroffe Megaways at Videoslots, on the lower maths model of 74.8% RTP.

We’ve just triggered the bonus by getting 7 scatters and we have a choice...

Do we take 5 free spins with nudging, exploding wilds with insane X99 multipliers, which can pay up 111,111 x stake (which usually pays 5x)

or do we take the Honey Pot 15 spins which is capped at x200 (Which usually pays 30x)
 

mrshyguy

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Location
london
On most providers, the total payout for the feature is known before you start the bonus, and what you are watching is just eyecandy.
But its not known before making the spin that lands you the bonus.

In your scenario, if the €2 feature was predetermined to pay the same as if you were betting €1
Wouldnt players be able to get an advantage by dropping the bet to €0.10 and still get bonuses that paid equal to €1/spin bonuses?
How/when would the slot decide what betsize to base your features on?
hmmm hadn't thought about that being the opposite of a lower stake but getting the same grand total of a feature finish but not wishing to open up a can of worms here, if there was a grade scale of say 0.10 0.20 upwards to £1 then a jump in scale to say £1-£2 so on and so forth, could that also be possible on some game mechanics?
 

mrshyguy

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2014
Location
london
We are playing the brand new exciting release...

Kroffe Megaways at Videoslots, on the lower maths model of 74.8% RTP.

We’ve just triggered the bonus by getting 7 scatters and we have a choice...

Do we take 5 free spins with nudging, exploding wilds with insane X99 multipliers, which can pay up 111,111 x stake (which usually pays 5x)

or do we take the Honey Pot 15 spins which is capped at x200 (Which usually pays 30x)
what a choice to make....for me i would go with the honey pot especially if ive up the stake to get a more solid reliable higher win.....but i do get your answer on this and thank you.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
hmmm hadn't thought about that being the opposite of a lower stake but getting the same grand total of a feature finish but not wishing to open up a can of worms here, if there was a grade scale of say 0.10 0.20 upwards to £1 then a jump in scale to say £1-£2 so on and so forth, could that also be possible on some game mechanics?
Regardless of what stake you play at, what the next bonus is going to pay is decided when you land the next bonus, not before that.
Atleast thats how its supposed to work, but who knows for sure what is really going on in the background.

However, i can say that i personally have not experienced the thing you mentioned about bonuses being predetermined to pay bad, no matter what stake you are on.
 

cncas2123

Meister Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Location
Belfast
Regardless of what stake you play at, what the next bonus is going to pay is decided when you land the next bonus, not before that.
Atleast thats how its supposed to work, but who knows for sure what is really going on in the background.

However, i can say that i personally have not experienced the thing you mentioned about bonuses being predetermined to pay bad, no matter what stake you are on.
Doesnt it all depend on who you are? Arent the slots picking on some people more than others and the people that are getting picked on are always going to get the low win no matter what option they pick???
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Doesnt it all depend on who you are? Arent the slots picking on some people more than others and the people that are getting picked on are always going to get the low win no matter what option they pick???
Yes fat Pooh, that is correct.
Its a fact that Casinos&Providers have been trying to cover up ever since the first slot was invented back in 1722.

Industry shills like @trancemonkey and @Halvor are trying to sell the Casino-version of how it works, but unlike us they are biased and have something to gain by lying.
You and me on the other hand would gain nothing by lying about this, which means we are probably telling the truth.


ggg.gif
 

Halvor

Experienced Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Location
Malta
Yes fat Pooh, that is correct.
Its a fact that Casinos&Providers have been trying to cover up ever since the first slot was invented back in 1722.

Industry shills like @trancemonkey and @Halvor are trying to sell the Casino-version of how it works, but unlike us they are biased and have something to gain by lying.
You and me on the other hand would gain nothing by lying about this, which means we are probably telling the truth.


View attachment 151132
That's Mr industry shill to you :p

Depending on the provider a feature is either all simulated at once or spin by spin.

As for increasing the bet and the wins stop, well that might as well have happened if you did not increase it, there's no such thing as the game having decided beforehand to pay or not.
 

DreamRJ

Out of this world!
MM
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Location
RJVille UK
From what I understand, some providers and slots are determined the X bet win from that feature as soon as you trigger that feature. So in most cases yes the outcome has already been calculated. But on new slots and for example megaway slots etc etc And some others they are now independent spins during the feature. So each free spin in a feature goes through the RNG again and the result plays out.

The usual model was X amount will be won from the feature as soon as you land the 3 or 4 or 5 or in some cases 6 scatters to trigger a feature, then the free spins play out and just spew out the wins that will add upto that X bet amount the RNG gave upon the trigger spin itself. Hence why sometimes you can see the balance update on some slots the amount you win before the feature has even been played and added to your balance already. Spoiling the feature itself. This has happened to me many times over the years.

I think they fixed that so that does not happen anymore but it used to happen anyway. But now most slots use independent spins in features. So the outcome has not been decided on initial trigger. So it means each spin is indeed random and it is not predetermined. It is only predetermined in terms of as soon as that spin animation starts and then it just shows the animations and reels stop etc etc and result displayed for that 1 free spin etc etc.

This might not be fully accurate. I do not make slots it is just what I read from others and trancemonkey over the years on CM and my time gambling and experience over the years :)
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
That's Mr industry shill to you :p

Depending on the provider a feature is either all simulated at once or spin by spin.

As for increasing the bet and the wins stop, well that might as well have happened if you did not increase it, there's no such thing as the game having decided beforehand to pay or not.
aaa.gif
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
just wondering about features on slots being pre-determined on the total payout, Example being if you played say one pound per spin, then get free spins feature which totals to 20 pounds. but if your stake was 2 pounds per spin then get the same feature but the payout was exactly the same ie: 20 pounds.
No, as I understand it the "x" is predetermined. i.e. Whatever you are betting, you will win X times that amount.
Pretty sure it would be highly illegal for slots to adjust their payout based on the bet size! :eek:

Funnily enough, I have recently been playing some "old school" MG slots (e.g. Thunderstuck) which are what I call "Reely Random". By that I mean the outcome is a genuine random stop on any position on a fixed strip of symbols, and each free-spin is generated in the same way.
Unfortunately most modern slots are just glorified scratch-cards with very fancy graphics to show you the result, with gimped reels and pre-determined feature outcomes.
At the end of the day the result is the same - same chance of wins, same RTP - but somehow it feels better to me knowing that I'm getting a reely random result.

KK
 

CasinoNinja

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
UK
No, as I understand it the "x" is predetermined. i.e. Whatever you are betting, you will win X times that amount.
Pretty sure it would be highly illegal for slots to adjust their payout based on the bet size! :eek:

Funnily enough, I have recently been playing some "old school" MG slots (e.g. Thunderstuck) which are what I call "Reely Random". By that I mean the outcome is a genuine random stop on any position on a fixed strip of symbols, and each free-spin is generated in the same way.
Unfortunately most modern slots are just glorified scratch-cards with very fancy graphics to show you the result, with gimped reels and pre-determined feature outcomes.
At the end of the day the result is the same - same chance of wins, same RTP - but somehow it feels better to me knowing that I'm getting a reely random result.

KK

Actually some old wms slots had an incentive where the RTP would be lower on a stake less than £2, a bit like the FOBTS in the UK
 

flyerskyangle

Experienced Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Location
japan
Absolutely pre-determined!
And you 99% of the bonus buy features pays like under 10x. Recent some days , I lost 3000 usd at bonus buy.
No limit games all fucking 10x even 0 (frequently)
PP games 4-250x 80% is around 20x
If they said random, I can’t believe, and you?
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Alternatively, they're not pre-determined.

I got this on Forgotten Island Megaways the other day - you'll note that my balance updates after every winning spin (or reaction), not before or at the end of the bonus, which definitely suggests every spin (and reaction) is uniquely selected.

 
Top