archive--problems/successes--November 1999


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
The great thing about the Casinomeister forum is that there are regular posters like Steve and LVHM who can be trusted as to thier opinion. Plus unlike so many other sites, the admin here, Bryan,
can be trusted to speak the truth, rather than protect his advertisers. A forum like this, however, only allows a player to make an educated GUESS as to which casinos are honest.

You cannot deny the involvment of organized crime in the internet gaming industry. The cheating that goes on is rampant. The mob is more involved with the internet casinos of today, then it was with the land based casinos of Las Vegas in the 1930's. All a turnkey provider needs to do is
BUY a gaming license from a banana republic.
The gaming license gives the provider the right to lie, cheat, and steal. There is no regulation. No one tests the source code. Providers can very easily manufature audit trails and manipulate the results. They can even post a phony list of winners on thier website with extraordinary amounts of $$ won. Since a player cannot PROVE anything, the turnkey provider and licencee stays in business ripping off customers.

At least with First Live Casino, players had PROOF the casino was a fraud. Noone was being paid. That kind of proof cannot be disputed. And it still took several months before the First Live website went offline. (I wonder if those cheats will be back online again soon under a different name???)

When a turnkey provider manipulates the games to cheat the player, A PLAYER CAN NEVER PROVE HE WAS CHEATED. All he can do is go onto forums like this and post messages like the one Snake-Eyes just posted. A player than has to speculate.
The smartest cheats are the turnkey providers who successfully rig the games, but also
have a solid record of paying customers and having good service. They want to steal your $$
while patting you on the back, and giving you a smile.


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
Steve, as a professional video poker player, you of all people know how easily a casino can cheat. All it needs to do is eliminate the royal.
As soon as the RNG hits the royal, the player never sees it on his screen. The server's back office CHEAT mode kicks in, and the RNG is accessed once again, creating a completely different card or cards. That's what appears on the players screen. By eliminating the royal,
a casino can bring in enormous profits. A player cannot PROVE the software is rigged. Even though theoreticly the odds of a royal are 1 in 40,000,
even if a gambler played 600,000 hands and still didn't get a royal, he'd be hard pressed to PROVE the casino was cheating. Therefore the casino can easily rip off customers and get away with it.


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
So are there any honest turnkey providers around?
There are a handfull that I believe are honest,
but VERY, VERY few.

The ones I recommend are:

Bossmedia, Starnet, and Lasseters

After hours and hours of playing at the above casinos, I am still ahead of the game.

As for Microgaming, I'm still speculating.
I agree with Snakeyes about thier BJ game. The dealer almost always gets a higher ratio of BJ's.
I've noticed this for quite some time now, and its good to finally hear from somone that feels the way I do. I track the results of my gameplay,
and have lost lots of $$ to Microgaming's BJ.
However, unlike Atlantic Interbet, Microgaming's
game was within one standard deviation of the theoretical results, which means its very possible the game is completely honest, and I just had bad luck. Its definately within the realm of randomness. I have read many forums and newgroups all over the net, and have heard from people who constantly play at Microgaming casinos, and most people believe they are legit.
SO I will reserve judgement on Microgaming.

As for Cryptologic, I love thier software, and I think they have the best multi-player BJ game on the net. However, I've heard from way too many people that have been playing there for quite some time, and have consistantly lost $$ while playing the correct strategies in video poker and blackjack. The multi-player games give me the option to watch other players without being forced into playing myself. I have RARELY seen a player have a winning streak at BJ, but I've seen lots of losing streaks. I've sat and watched the games at Cryptologic for hours and hours and I've seen too many players lose waaay too much $$. I go to land based casinos all the time in Atlantic City, and see winning streaks all the time. But this hasn't happened on Cryptologic casinos.
Playing proper BJ strategy, my personal results were within one standard deviation of the norm.
Since this result is within the realm of randomness, its very possible I was just unlucky.
Since the multi-player games go so fast, I haven't been able to track other people's results.
Overall,I am slightly down. I must give credit where credit is due, and Cryptologic should be credited with having the fastest payouts on the internet. It takes 1 business day for your card to get credited.

As far as ECASH withdrawals, the best are by far Cryptologic and Bossmedia. Both use the pin code
sytstem. You cannot make any withdrawals till you receive a pin code in the mail. Once you enter the pin its proof positive that its you. They require no further ID. Starnet casinos send out the pin codes by email. Once again, to the best of my knowledge, no further ID is required.
Certain Microgaming casinos use a company called Proc-Cyber Services, which in my opinion is the most paranoid ecash company on Earth. You can't withdraw any major win (over and above your deposit) till you fax them a copy of your license and the front and back of all credit cards used.
This is a ridiculous policy, and I will NOT play
at these casinos. The real reason is that if you deny charges on any future purchase,
or have any type of dispute with the casino,
they will use those faxes along with proof of the bankdraft they previously issued to you to make sure they get paid. This company is widely known for using every possible method available to them including international bill collectors.
I do not want any ecash company to have such confidential info about me. Certain other Microgaming casinos use Sunny Leisure, which only requires you fax them 1 credit card statement
This policy makes a lot more sense, and I will use Sunny Leisure, but thier method still pales in comparison to the pin code system which is the best around. Lasseter's requires you fax them ANY ID which shows proof of age.


Dormant account
Oct 29, 2002
I am pleased to proclaim my new casino is now reopened and just so you know ALL the games are fair and fall within Las Vegas win odds but you wont get paid if you win as your are paying for the service of the dealers
only your cash as I say is a service charge


Dave... Thanks for your input. I think the points you raised are valid, with an exeption for the mafia. I have read nothing about a connection between the mob and cyber casinos. As far as royals in poker, I feel many casinos may put a limit on how many they will pay off per month.
It seems as if it would be very easy for the casinos to "tweek" the software in order for the game to have slightly higher odds. Still possible to win, but not as much. They get away with this because, as you said, there is no regulation. A license is only for revenue collection for the host country. It really kills me when online casinos advertise that they "are fully licensed and in complience with all laws".
It gives the impression of government regulation where there is non.
I believe Rags to Riches ads say fullly licensed in big letters. What real difference does it make to the player if a casino is licensed or not?


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
Sheeeeeeeeesh. What does it take to put
First Live out of business once and for all.
In my previous message I had posted that this site was out of business. Well I just checked thier site again today, and they are back up ripping people off again. These guys just don't give up, do they. Does anyone know how to finally
get the authorities to bust these guys and put 'em out of business once and for all???


Dormant account
Nov 24, 2003
I guess that a crooked casino could still be licensed to operate. But I think that when a person spends tens of thousands of dollars on a license they are less likely to cheat the players.

I feel better knowing that a casino is licensed, if they were to rip you off you would have some recourse with the government agency that issued it.

You could not buy a starnet or microgaming casino and change the payoffs or take out the royal flush. That is why you are better off with the name brand of software. I would beware of the non known software.

On the brighter side of things my $20,000 wore has been sent to my bank. Good for the Torpedo casino and pro cyber services. no hassle cashout.



I would like to share my humble opinion.
The point sraised by Dave R :
These are very strong valid points .
It is impossible for the industry to be SELF-REGULATED . No company would do so. Business Logic ( go for money and profits ) , Player's Protection ( get paid and not cheated ) and Government Policy ( protection of local industry and taxes ) are all conflciting issues.

My only views is on Player's choice.

Players MUST be mature to choose the RIGHT casino .By right casino , I mean those casinos which at least have been validated by a 3rd party ( independent ) .

My view is trust only those casinos which are members of Interactive Gaming Council
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Those belongs to Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) are O.K. too.

The point is :
1.) there's always a 3rd party watchdog to protect players .
2.) members must adhered to a Code of Conduct for responsible and fair play.
3.) Honest members will not want to associated with dishonest members .
4.) A reputable association (like IGC or EOGA ) will not want their reputation goes down the drain just bcause of one or two dishonest casinos.


Dormant account
Oct 29, 2002
Deep and meaningful discussion going on here so I will raise my head

Microgaming get PCW to verify their payout percentage so we should ask PCW how they come to a set figure is it total paid out divded by total stakes in as any other figure is misleading also why does this figure never rise above 100% I'm convinced the program is fitted with a percentage payout control like a slot machine these slots have a random number generator but the percentage payout can override this

By the way just turned $88 comp points into $2100 with English Harbour funny game Blackjack, someone was quering the number of Blackjacks the dealer gets but to be honest I seem to get more BJ's than the dealer especially when playing $200 a hand, I dont play basic stratergy (experts will I know disagree) I play a strange game sometimes it pays off big style and sometimes it doesnt when it doesnt I tend to think rigged game but when it does like today my doubts are silenced (maybe thats how it goes)

someone contact PCW

$88 into $2100 remarkable


Thank you Dave R. for the
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

By the way do you own this site?? I have entered it and downloaded AVATAR and played there. I won $702. I hope they will pay me.


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
Please note I did not post the message dated Nov 2 1:04 AM, and I will ask Bryan to locate the true poster of that message and make sure he is bannned from this forum - FOREVER!

I did post the 3 previous messages.


Dormant account
Oct 29, 2002
who the bloody hell is Sara

and Dave R when did you mention ??



Dormant account
Nov 24, 2003
Hitmob here is the system that they are talking about.Subj: Re: [System that beats online casino]
Date: 11/2/99 3:57:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: (Nemo Nicholas)

Sure thing, Steve.

First, a bit of an overview. This system will win you a few $1000. It won't
make you independently wealthy, but it will pad out your bottom line and let
you gamble with the assurance that you can't lose.

So, anyway, there's tons of legitimate online casinos, right? And many of
them offer you an initial deposit bonus, like 10-50% of your initial deposit.
We can use this deposit bonus to create a no fail strategy to win at online

Let's take a typical example, a casino that gives you a $25.00 bonus when you
deposit $25.00 the first time. So, after you sign up, you have $50.00 in your
account for a $25.00 risk.

But you can't just deposit money, get your bonus, and take it out. You have
to bet the bonus and (usually) the deposit too on table games. But with free
money to work with it's easy to make a roulette strategy that can't fail.

For example -- Single zero roulette, $25 deposit plus $25 bonus (typical)
Bet $2.00 on zero, $24 on red, and $24 on black.

You either wind up with $72 or (more likely) $48. Either way, you're up at
least $23 from your initial deposit and you've bet $50. CASH OUT.

Your $25 will be credited to your credit card in (typically) 5 days (two for
the casino to process it and three for the credit card company to process it).
Your $23 bonus will be mailed to you in about two weeks.

Often, the no-fail roulette isn't the best system available. Some online
casinos allow you to bet on both the dealer and the player in baccarat, others
have sicbo, etc. For each casino I refer to you, I will tell you my preferred
no-fail system.

The entire system is a bit more complicated than this, however. Since doing
the no-fail system isn't very fun for you or the casino, I recommend that you
use some money management and the no-fail roulette (or baccarat or craps, I'll
let you know which is the best for each casino) as a backup. You'd be
surprised how often you win extra money.

Let's go back to our example. First, take your $25.00 bonus and set a limit,
$10.00, that you won't drop below. Play any game you like, but lose no more
than the $10.00 limit.

Let's say you chose to play blackjack. If you keep winning, keep playing.
Keep track of how much you have bet. When you've bet $50.00, CASH OUT, and
enjoy your winnings.

If you start losing, don't worry. But don't lose more than $10.00. Say you
lost $10.00 and bet $20.00. Now, switch to the no-fail system. You only need
to bet another $30.00, so put $1 on 0, $14 on red, and $15 on black. In the
worst case (a red), you won $28.00 plus the $10.00 you still have in the
account. You are up $13.00, and it's time to cash out.

I've been doing this basic thing for quite some time and have made over $4000.
I've compiled a list of casinos that pay out, what you have to do, how much
you have to bet, whether to do baccarat or roulette, etc. And I only give you
info on those that have credited me back on my credit cards and sent my
winnings in a timely manner, so you don't get ripped off. And I _HAVE_ been
ripped off by a couple of casinos (reducing the profit line quite a bit, not
to mention the emails and phone calls to try and get my money back), so this
info is worth it.

For my part, you just write an email to the casino after you've deposited your
money and tell them I recommended you. I typically get 5% of your initial
deposit as a referral bonus. As an added bonus, simply forward me the email
the casino sends you confirming the referral bonus and I'll mail you a check
for $5.00 (after I cash the bonus out).

Sound fair? If you like the idea, I can get you started whenever you'd like.
I have two types of no-fail casinos: a high deposit list with casinos
averaging $500 deposits, and a list of casinos with $200 or less



canAan onze leden,

Casino World N.V., eigenaar van Casino Nederland, gaat verhuizen. In ieder
geval kun je nog spelen t/m 31 november. Mogelijk zijn we na 1 december
een korte tijd niet te bereiken.
Wij adviseren je daarom om voor deze datum je geld op te spelen, of uit te
laten betalen.

Voor het zover is nemen we nog contact met je op.


De Casino manager

Can anyone translate this? Thanks


Dormant account
Oct 29, 2002




The system is a no brainer that I figured out soon after I went online. The hard part is compiling the list of casinos. Not only are there casinos that will not pay you, there are others who use funny math in determining how much you must bet in order to keep the bonus. I'd really like to see his list of casinos that did not pay him.


Dormant account
Oct 6, 1999
I'am sorry again. My son has posted the message with the site
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
and he has used my name.
Sorry for any inconveiniences that I could have made, and sorry to BRYAN and all.
As for Sara, I do not know who she is.


Starnet is upgrading the servers this weekend. Which makes for a very sucky place to play.
5 hands and out you go. sign in again play another couple of hands and out you go again.

Get it together starnet or I will sue you for impersonating a casino.

STeve where the hell are you? you do not even hang out on your own site anymore. Did hitmob dig you a big english hole?

Rege Seaman

Does anyone out there know of a company called
International Commercial Financial L.L.C. (ICF)
I am thinking of buying a casino site from them
so any words of wisdom would be appriciated.
Please contact me at my e-mail address.