Arcades

Luckyscouser45

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hi all, I like to go my local arcade a few times a week as it’s close to my home won two £500 jackpots within two days of each other and then a few £100 jackpots all relatively closely together, won these on reel king £500 machine and the £100 on the smaller stake reel king machine been in there a few times this week today I went onto reel king £500 as I enjoy the game not just the wins but its a fun game
manager who is a friendly guy in passing conversation said “you won’t win much on those reel kings for a while” :-0 I asked why and he said they have been rinsed too much. So is he basically telling me that head office or even himself have tighten them cos too many wins, makes a ball out of random I left pretty annoyed. Also does anyone play those community slots? Always have nice little wins of them but that manager sayIng that has put me off that and arcades :( stick to online from now
 

DreamRJ

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Slots in the Arcades have changed the last 10-15 years, when they made the move from mechanical to digital. And then the RNG is all code. So in the very old mechanical machines, when the hoppers was full. And you heard a dropping sign of the coins entering the machine and it dropped to the over fill, you know it is about to pay. And 9 out of 10 times it did. But on the newer machines. That doesn't work as the RNG's are different, I do not think it takes into account if the hoppers are full or not and base outputs on that aspect.

So I would say it is a old fashioned view nowadays :)
 

KasinoKing

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So is he basically telling me that head office or even himself have tighten them cos too many wins, makes a ball out of random I left pretty annoyed.
Sounds like bullshit to me!
That is totally illegal in the UK - and I'm not sure it's even possible (?)
The machines HAVE to display the RTP on them - check the "help" screens and see if they have indeed reduced the RTP.

I don't play in arcades very often these days - but I think the RPT's on £500 machine should always be in excess of 90%...
(Usually higher if you bet higher).

KK
 

PMKFRUITPRO

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Slots in the Arcades have changed the last 10-15 years, when they made the move from mechanical to digital. And then the RNG is all code. So in the very old mechanical machines, when the hoppers was full. And you heard a dropping sign of the coins entering the machine and it dropped to the over fill, you know it is about to pay. And 9 out of 10 times it did. But on the newer machines. That doesn't work as the RNG's are different, I do not think it takes into account if the hoppers are full or not and base outputs on that aspect.

So I would say it is a old fashioned view nowadays :)

Mmmmm......

10-15 years ago, land based fruit machines didn’t have RNG’s. Because they weren’t random. Many of them still arent.
 

snorky510238

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Mmmmm......

10-15 years ago, land based fruit machines didn’t have RNG’s. Because they weren’t random. Many of them still arent.
Even though they claim to be. Mmmmm I wonder where else that happens, Mmmmm let me think:rolleyes:.
 

dunover

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Arcade slots can be changed with a key and as long as they are on the legal minimum of 70%+ the operator is within the rules. And as KK said, they inform you of the payouts. Trouble is, you never know exactly and as far as I'm aware they only have to display the fact they are on 70%+ and not the specific setting?
 

KasinoKing

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Arcade slots can be changed with a key and as long as they are on the legal minimum of 70%+ the operator is within the rules. And as KK said, they inform you of the payouts. Trouble is, you never know exactly and as far as I'm aware they only have to display the fact they are on 70%+ and not the specific setting?
I have NEVER seen a fruit machine in the UK which doesn't display the minimum RTP - and I used to play them a LOT! :oops:
e.g. If one was set to 88%, it would display "Payout at least 88%" and not "Payout is greater than 70%"
Same for the modern £500 machines.

KK
 

JGslots

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The arcade industry is somewhat corrupt, it started off with just 1 manufacturer Barcrest, but now they’re all at it.

@trancemonkey may disagree, but what they do now is a bit naughty...

The most common gaming machines in arcades and bingos are compensated community based games from Barcrest and also Blueprint.

These games RTP are usually 86 - 92%, which is high right? Well don’t be fooled!

Compensated machines often used to be ‘happy’ from a factory reset, so the machines would play fair and be operating at higher % to start with and balance out the more they’re played and bedded in they get.

SG and Blueprint have realised they can install their games very dead for hundreds, even in some cases thousands of pounds from a factory reset. In essence, this basically means the first players on these games will be getting a very low RTP for the first few thousand pounds cycled through EACH game, and often there is 30+ games on these units.

So ok... the operator is happy as in the short term they’re making loads of money right? The manufacturers are happy to do this as they will sell more new games and kit, but now there’s a problem...

Customers (players) are not stupid, they’ve been using these machines for years and know when things change. Go back 5-6 years and you literally couldn’t get on these machines, but now you barely see anyone playing them as they know they won’t get a fair game.

Blueprint gaming have also followed suit, King Kong Cash Community, Peter Pan and all of the games on their terminals which are compensated are installed to play at a low RTP in the short term. All of this is legal as the machine will meet its true RTP over the 500,000+ spins, so they games will pay out good, way down the line, but will EACH game ever get played enough to meet their TRPT? Doubful.

So what are they doing to make even more money for themselves?
Each time blueprint release a new game across their networked terminals, ALL of their games have a factory reset, so all the games are put back to paying in their worst state and the low RTP for the player.

Its not all doom and gloom though, Barcrest used release their games that played happy and fair from their factory reset, but finding these old versions are hard and won’t be in the high street brands such as Cashino and Admiral.

So my advice, if you’re going to play in the UK arcades... stick to RANDOM games, don’t play the compensated games, they’re just not fair for the player anymore.

@trancemonkey and @ChopleyIOM will say it’s legal, and quite rightly it is, but morally it’s wrong and big FU to the players. The compensated community games will meet the TRPT, but not anytime soon in the short term.

Rob :)
 

Jono777

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"That's been rinsed" or "You won't win on that one" are lines I've been hearing since I was old enough to reach the coin slots.

Meaningless arcade banter, BS, hot air IMO and nothing more!
 

trancemonkey

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The arcade industry is somewhat corrupt, it started off with just 1 manufacturer Barcrest, but now they’re all at it.

@trancemonkey may disagree, but what they do now is a bit naughty...

The most common gaming machines in arcades and bingos are compensated community based games from Barcrest and also Blueprint.

These games RTP are usually 86 - 92%, which is high right? Well don’t be fooled!

Compensated machines often used to be ‘happy’ from a factory reset, so the machines would play fair and be operating at higher % to start with and balance out the more they’re played and bedded in they get.

SG and Blueprint have realised they can install their games very dead for hundreds, even in some cases thousands of pounds from a factory reset. In essence, this basically means the first players on these games will be getting a very low RTP for the first few thousand pounds cycled through EACH game, and often there is 30+ games on these units.

So ok... the operator is happy as in the short term they’re making loads of money right? The manufacturers are happy to do this as they will sell more new games and kit, but now there’s a problem...

Customers (players) are not stupid, they’ve been using these machines for years and know when things change. Go back 5-6 years and you literally couldn’t get on these machines, but now you barely see anyone playing them as they know they won’t get a fair game.

Blueprint gaming have also followed suit, King Kong Cash Community, Peter Pan and all of the games on their terminals which are compensated are installed to play at a low RTP in the short term. All of this is legal as the machine will meet its true RTP over the 500,000+ spins, so they games will pay out good, way down the line, but will EACH game ever get played enough to meet their TRPT? Doubful.

So what are they doing to make even more money for themselves?
Each time blueprint release a new game across their networked terminals, ALL of their games have a factory reset, so all the games are put back to paying in their worst state and the low RTP for the player.

Its not all doom and gloom though, Barcrest used release their games that played happy and fair from their factory reset, but finding these old versions are hard and won’t be in the high street brands such as Cashino and Admiral.

So my advice, if you’re going to play in the UK arcades... stick to RANDOM games, don’t play the compensated games, they’re just not fair for the player anymore.

@trancemonkey and @ChopleyIOM will say it’s legal, and quite rightly it is, but morally it’s wrong and big FU to the players. The compensated community games will meet the TRPT, but not anytime soon in the short term.

Rob :)

I never started a compensated game at zero... but you have to be careful about how high you start them, because players could just take the value off the comp and never play again.
If you have 1000 machines each starting 40 quid happy, that's £40,000 you're giving away for free. Operators don't like that...
 

JGslots

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I never started a compensated game at zero... but you have to be careful about how high you start them, because players could just take the value off the comp and never play again.
If you have 1000 machines each starting 40 quid happy, that's £40,000 you're giving away for free. Operators don't like that...


I think the manufacturers are exploiting the compensated games now, surely someone has to step in at some point to govern these games. Like you say if it’s too generous then the operator loses money, but it’s ok for it massively swing the other way? No doubt the UKGC won’t know or care, as it doesn’t involve problem gambling or issuing massive fines.

Every game has been a flop recently for SG on those terminals, serves them right for shafting the players, who quite rightly have lost trust in the brand.

Rob
 

JGslots

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I never started a compensated game at zero... but you have to be careful about how high you start them, because players could just take the value off the comp and never play again.
If you have 1000 machines each starting 40 quid happy, that's £40,000 you're giving away for free. Operators don't like that...

What compensated games have you developed in the past? Not Golden Balls? :D hehehe
 

trancemonkey

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What compensated games have you developed in the past? Not Golden Balls? :D hehehe

Well, I've worked for JPM, Mazooma, Maygay and Impulse in my time. Longest time was Impulse. And no, not golden balls. I only did compensated video Cat C games when I was at Games Warehouse. All previous companies were reel based.
 

JGslots

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Well, I've worked for JPM, Mazooma, Maygay and Impulse in my time. Longest time was Impulse. And no, not golden balls. I only did compensated video Cat C games when I was at Games Warehouse. All previous companies were reel based.

Oh wow, did you make that really cool video version of Roller Coaster on the games media cab? That was a fun game, there was a cops n robbers too that was fun.

My friend still owns a Flashback to this day, it’s a chipped one though lol.

Rob :)
 

geordiecolin

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Back in the day it was common for pub fruit machines to be installed by cowboy operators who would display the RTP as 89% but would key it as 60% or whatever they wished.There where local regulators but rarely would an operator be caught,or the operator themselves where in the providers pocket.
The same thing was common in arcades
 

DreamRJ

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Yeah I do remember the old mechanical machines had a key as well. But that key I think only had a few settings attached to it when you used it though. I also know that the mechanical machines didn't have a digital RNG. But they still had a type of RNG as far as I am aware anyway. Unless someone else who knows wants to say?

Just my guess and opinion mind :) I could do a search to find out some facts, and see if my assumptions are correct or not lol but I am too busy again today :)
 

JGslots

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Yeah I do remember the old mechanical machines had a key as well. But that key I think only had a few settings attached to it when you used it though. I also know that the mechanical machines didn't have a digital RNG. But they still had a type of RNG as far as I am aware anyway. Unless someone else who knows wants to say?

Just my guess and opinion mind :) I could do a search to find out some facts, and see if my assumptions are correct or not lol but I am too busy again today :)

I think you might be referring to a refill key? Possibly. This key, when the machine is closed tells you the hopper balance and things like last win/bank and volume control.

I know on older machines you could, well, on project machines use a refill key to dump single pound coins on their poker machines, which was a little silly.

I think the RNG was separate to the machine when it was Section 16:21 in the UK before going to B3, which is within the program of each game now right?

I think the percentages could be altered using a variable stake and prizes key, from 70% to 98% and also select available jackpot value and stake.

Rob :)
 

JGslots

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Yes, I remember the queue for a new slot whether Electrocoin or Project when it was new, as it would dump a few refills before balancing out. :thumbsup:

Project made some excellent games, simple lo tech style games which could stream for a large amount, back then AWP stood for amusement with prizes, what does it mean now? Nothing lol.

Rob :)
 

EkJR

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Mmmmm......

10-15 years ago, land based fruit machines didn’t have RNG’s. Because they weren’t random. Many of them still arent.

Of course they aren't random. The perfect example is the high low gambles. If you are on a 2 for instance and need to gamble higher to get a feature, say deal or no deal 3 phones, 9 times out of 10(or more) you will lose the high low. It's completely predetermined
 

JGslots

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Of course they aren't random. The perfect example is the high low gambles. If you are on a 2 for instance and need to gamble higher to get a feature, say deal or no deal 3 phones, 9 times out of 10(or more) you will lose the high low. It's completely predetermined

This machine may at times offer the player a chance where there is little or no chance of success :D
 

trancemonkey

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Oh wow, did you make that really cool video version of Roller Coaster on the games media cab? That was a fun game, there was a cops n robbers too that was fun.

My friend still owns a Flashback to this day, it’s a chipped one though lol.

Rob :)

Yup Rollercoaster was me... another guy did the Caesars Palace version.

I had a RC in my garage for years. That game got me in to fruit machines. So i had to do it...
 

JGslots

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Yup Rollercoaster was me... another guy did the Caesars Palace version.

I had a RC in my garage for years. That game got me in to fruit machines. So i had to do it...

Nice. It was a great game, possibly one of the most fun machines ever, I’m sure on your version the triple red bars paid something like £20, so the test your strength feature came around nicely. Not sure what the best approach was, but always enjoyed playing it.

They even had the cops game on the max terminals in Mecca, but installed dead so it would cost loads for the mega streak :p

Rob
 
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