Resolved aodat2 VS MrGreen.com

[aodat2]

This is actually my experience with Mr.Green Casino(Accredited)...

I actually registered an account with MrGreen quite a few days back and deposited to play. After that, I lost about EUR50,00. So a few days later, I decided to make another deposit of EUR150,00 and played on. I finally made some money and thought it would be best to Withdraw my winnings and come back some other time. But when I wanted to make a withdrawal, it seems that there's only 1 option for me which is Bank Transfer so I looked all around for places to enter my bank details and all since I'm from Malaysia but there's no option for that.

After a few hours, I went on to Live Chat and asked how I could make a withdrawal and why there's no space for me to enter my bank details. I was told on Live Chat that you guys can't do Wire Transfers. Further I asked what other ways could I withdraw my money? I am told then to maybe create a MoneyBookers account but I told the person on Live Chat that MoneyBookers does not allow "Casino" transactions in Malaysia. So the person on Live Chat further asked me to create a Neteller Account but unfortunately since there was a problem with me and Neteller a long time ago, they do not allow me to open any accounts with them after that.

So I was asking them what I could do to Withdraw my money. There was a pause and after that the person said he'd need to check with their Payment Department and about 2 minutes later he came back and told me that he'd need to check with the Payments Team and that he'll get back to me via email. I said OK and left the chat after that.

About 5 minutes after that, while I was playing some slot game, I noticed that it stopped working and my account was locked after that. I don't even know what happened and why it got locked. After the account got locked, I was shocked and went to Live Chat to ask but they gave me totally no information on what happened and they just requested my ID + Proof of Address. Immediately I provided this to them via email as told to do via Live Chat. They said that they will get back to me after everything is verified.

Until today, it has been more than 48 hours since I sent in everything and there's still no news. I've went on Live Chat quite a few times to check and yet till now the reply is always the same which is that there's still no updates and that I will just need to wait. There will be no time-frame and there will be no other communications until there's an update.

Just FYI, I have not even used a Credit Card to deposit, but rather a PaySafeCard which is bought by my friend to me. Right now it just seems that MrGreen.com an Accredited Casino over here is doing something really shady and is locking my account for no reason whatsoever.

Did anyone have any experience with them?

Any feedback or etc would be very much appreciated.

 

[Sovietsky]

I registered at another casino (also accredited) a while ago and made a deposit and played some did lose. So I decided to give it a new try a few days later and when I tried to log in my account was locked. Got a mail that I need to send in documents (ID and bill) send in all documents same day. It's been now 5 days and im still locked.

 

[aodat2]

I registered at another casino (also accredited) a while ago and made a deposit and played some did lose. So I decided to give it a new try a few days later and when I tried to log in my account was locked. Got a mail that I need to send in documents (ID and bill) send in all documents same day. It's been now 5 days and im still locked.

Care to share which casino is this so that I don't stupidly go register there?

 

[Sovietsky]

Hi again, I want to give that casino a chance so I don't want to write it here I can however PM you.

About MrGreen, they have a rep here. You can PM him, might help.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[LaHutti]

Wrong threat ..duh!

 

[maxd]

Any feedback or etc would be very much appreciated.

As mentioned, there is the rep you could contact. And the PAB option is always there too, no reason not to.

 

[chayton]

Just FYI, I have not even used a Credit Card to deposit, but rather a PaySafeCard which is bought by my friend to me.

I'm not familiar with how PaySafeCard works - if your friend bought it, is their name associated with it or on the account?

 

[Nifty29]

I'm not familiar with how PaySafeCard works - if your friend bought it, is their name associated with it or on the account?

Good point.

@OP....what "problem" did you have with Neteller? I can think of very few reasons they would ban you for life, and it might be relevant.

 

[aodat2]

Just to clarify a few things...

1. PaySafeCard is something like Ukash, it's just a cash voucher that you use. No names or anything associated. Just CASH.

2. Neteller and me had a fight over a charge on my account and they wanted me to pay but I refused to pay because the charge wasn't mine. Somehow or rather it was just there. We had a huge fight and told them to "take a hike" and they told me to pay that or they will not allow me to open another account anymore. So I just left Neteller with that bitter taste. It's not a decision I regret coz it's a charge which I totally do not know about. This all happened when Neteller just started so it's been quite a long time.

So that's the story of me and Neteller. Doubt it has any impact on the situation as they could not have known about it as no information was exchanged between me/them and Neteller.

 

[Nifty29]

Just to clarify a few things...

1. PaySafeCard is something like Ukash, it's just a cash voucher that you use. No names or anything associated. Just CASH.

2. Neteller and me had a fight over a charge on my account and they wanted me to pay but I refused to pay because the charge wasn't mine. Somehow or rather it was just there. We had a huge fight and told them to "take a hike" and they told me to pay that or they will not allow me to open another account anymore. So I just left Neteller with that bitter taste. It's not a decision I regret coz it's a charge which I totally do not know about. This all happened when Neteller just started so it's been quite a long time.

So that's the story of me and Neteller. Doubt it has any impact on the situation as they could not have known about it as no information was exchanged between me/them and Neteller.

So, in other words, you initiated a credit card chargeback against Neteller.

I don't see any other way you could "refuse to pay".

Chargebacks are reported to fraud databases and it is very possible that you are having issues as a result.

Out of interest, did the three failed PAB's you have involve similar issues?

 

[aodat2]

Nifty29:

Nope... Don't ASSUME things! No chargeback was initiated. It was just a charge was on my account with a DEAD Credit Card. So my account was left in the negative. There's no chargeback so please stop insinuating this. You're being either pathetic or stupid.

As for the PAB, it has nothing to do with Chargebacks or etc at all.

In case you DO NOT know the meaning of ASSUME... it is because it will always make an ASS out of U and ME!!!


Just FYI... This case has nothing to do with chargebacks or whatsoever. I basically deposited with CASH. Even if I did a chargeback before, it still has no impact on the casino or etc because this time, everything is in CASH and nothing else other than CASH!

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty29:

Nope... Don't ASSUME things! No chargeback was initiated. It was just a charge was on my account with a DEAD Credit Card. So my account was left in the negative. There's no chargeback so please stop insinuating this. You're being either pathetic or stupid.

As for the PAB, it has nothing to do with Chargebacks or etc at all.

In case you DO NOT know the meaning of ASSUME... it is because it will always make an ASS out of U and ME!!!


Just FYI... This case has nothing to do with chargebacks or whatsoever. I basically deposited with CASH. Even if I did a chargeback before, it still has no impact on the casino or etc because this time, everything is in CASH and nothing else other than CASH!

It makes no difference if you deposit in cash from that point on or in banana peels. Once there is a fraud report (and I'm not saying there is one against you), any casino relying on that database will refuse to pay your winnings and refund your deposit.

Methinks thou dost protesteth too much.

 

[Balthazar]

It makes no difference if you deposit in cash from that point on or in banana peels. Once there is a fraud report (and I'm not saying there is one against you), any casino relying on that database will refuse to pay your winnings and refund your deposit.

Are you implying that there's a big fat full of personal informations "fraud database" shared between two parties that have nothing in common like Neteller and Mr. Green? Kind of like the central Rival thing?

To me it sounds like the CSR guy got scared when the OP told him that he got banned from Neteller. They locked his account and requested his ID's.

 

[aodat2]

Now I'm beginning to think that their people are totally incompetent.

I'm staying in Malaysia and they are asking me for my IBAN.

It's exactly like you're staying in USA and they're asking you for your IBAN. After some chat, they now want a statement of account from my bank with details on my account and also the SWIFT information on the same statement.

Does any of the banks in the world cater to the whims and fancy of the customer? When do you ever see a statement of account that has SWIFT instructions on it and etc? Oh my goodness!!!

 

[chuchu59]

Nifty29:

Nope... Don't ASSUME things! No chargeback was initiated. It was just a charge was on my account with a DEAD Credit Card. So my account was left in the negative. There's no chargeback so please stop insinuating this. You're being either pathetic or stupid.

As for the PAB, it has nothing to do with Chargebacks or etc at all.

In case you DO NOT know the meaning of ASSUME... it is because it will always make an ASS out of U and ME!!!


Just FYI... This case has nothing to do with chargebacks or whatsoever. I basically deposited with CASH. Even if I did a chargeback before, it still has no impact on the casino or etc because this time, everything is in CASH and nothing else other than CASH!

Frankly, Nifty's concerns are valid though as usual he could have conveyed his thoughts to you in a nicer way. Several failed PABs together with the fact that you had a row with Neteller will naturally arouse suspicions. Actually, Neteller is one of the most convenient ewallets but this option is no longer available for you please exercise some patience for the casino to work out the proble of sending you the winnings.

If the players' experiences are true ie account locked midway through play Monsieur Green needs to have a rethink on how they handle accounts that require verification. Either do it before commencement of play and use methods eg pop-ups or email to notify the player indicating that no further play is allowed until verification is complete.

 

[dunover]

Now I'm beginning to think that their people are totally incompetent.

I'm staying in Malaysia and they are asking me for my IBAN.

It's exactly like you're staying in USA and they're asking you for your IBAN. After some chat, they now want a statement of account from my bank with details on my account and also the SWIFT information on the same statement.

Does any of the banks in the world cater to the whims and fancy of the customer? When do you ever see a statement of account that has SWIFT instructions on it and etc? Oh my goodness!!!

Every single bank statement should have a SWIFT and IBAN code at the bottom if you look - I haven't seen one that hasn't. This is entirely normal and has no relevance to where you are staying. Whichever country you reside in and your bank account is based, give that IBAN number, and they'll send the funds there. No big deal, is it?

 

[GrandMaster]

Now I'm beginning to think that their people are totally incompetent.

I'm staying in Malaysia and they are asking me for my IBAN.

It's exactly like you're staying in USA and they're asking you for your IBAN. After some chat, they now want a statement of account from my bank with details on my account and also the SWIFT information on the same statement.

Does any of the banks in the world cater to the whims and fancy of the customer? When do you ever see a statement of account that has SWIFT instructions on it and etc? Oh my goodness!!!

My bank statements show the IBAN and SWIFT codes as well.

 

[dunover]

Nifty29:

Nope... Don't ASSUME things! No chargeback was initiated. It was just a charge was on my account with a DEAD Credit Card. So my account was left in the negative. There's no chargeback so please stop insinuating this. You're being either pathetic or stupid.

As for the PAB, it has nothing to do with Chargebacks or etc at all.

In case you DO NOT know the meaning of ASSUME... it is because it will always make an ASS out of U and ME!!!


Just FYI... This case has nothing to do with chargebacks or whatsoever. I basically deposited with CASH. Even if I did a chargeback before, it still has no impact on the casino or etc because this time, everything is in CASH and nothing else other than CASH!

Well the card must have 'died' between Neteller receiving your card payment and your card issuer honouring it - in other words your bank reversed the payment at your behest after Neteller had already let you use the funds, and issued you with a new card as security after you reported fraud. Therefore you old card was 'dead' and Neteller left out of pocket. Sorry buddy, this is the only way a card problem could result in a negative Neteller balance.

Also any card on Neteller is immediately spotted by their system if the bank stops it or the date expires, so the chances of Neteller letting you use a 'dead' card accidentally is zero. You would have had an instant e-mail from them.

On the second point, YES a chargeback would likely flag on a list many casinos use, therefore you are a marked man when you deposit whether cash only or not and will often get problems. This is because even if you are depositing cash and the payment to the casino is irreversible, you are still considered a risk for other things, like false disputes on sites like CM, bonus abuse and collusion/cheating.

So, I think there have been some pretty good 'assumptions' in this thread my friend.

 

[Nifty29]

Well the card must have 'died' between Neteller receiving your card payment and your card issuer honouring it - in other words your bank reversed the payment at your behest after Neteller had already let you use the funds, and issued you with a new card as security after you reported fraud. Therefore you old card was 'dead' and Neteller left out of pocket. Sorry buddy, this is the only way a card problem could result in a negative Neteller balance.

Also any card on Neteller is immediately spotted by their system if the bank stops it or the date expires, so the chances of Neteller letting you use a 'dead' card accidentally is zero. You would have had an instant e-mail from them.

On the second point, YES a chargeback would likely flag on a list many casinos use, therefore you are a marked man when you deposit whether cash only or not and will often get problems. This is because even if you are depositing cash and the payment to the casino is irreversible, you are still considered a risk for other things, like false disputes on sites like CM, bonus abuse and collusion/cheating.

So, I think there have been some pretty good 'assumptions' in this thread my friend.

Exactly.

Whilst not technically a chargeback, it is the same idea for the same reason for the same effect. Its pretty much fraud actually....deliberately cancelling a card to stop a merchant getting their money. If it really WAS an unauthorized transaction, why not just dispute it?

Not only that, how is it even possible to have an unauthorized transaction on your credit card from neteller? I mean, you have to log in AND register the card!. Someone can't do a transaction via neteller from your card without you knowing about it.

Also, neteller has a transaction history, so obviously that transaction WAS made. If it was an erroneous I.e. double charge then neteller would be able to see it....PLUS the resultant funds must have sent somewhere (hmmm a casino maybe) so the player MUST have known about the "extra" funds.

IMO the OP is being economical with the truth. I also think it would be a coincidence if the 3 failed pabs were totally unrelated....but I guess not impossible.

I also think the extreme defensiveness and childish name calling by the OP is a big red flag.

Finally, I find the OPs admonishment of me for "daring" to question his actions and making "assumptions" extremely hypocritical, given that the OP has publicly accused Mr Green of "shady practices" without a shred of evidence

 

[stokes]

With all due respect Nifty (and Dunover) you are doing the same what you normally accuse Vinylweatherman: making up a story without knowing the facts. You might be right, but there could be other reasons to have dispute with Neteller.

May be a bit off topic but let me give you examples with Moneybookers which could have resulted that they ban me.

The first happened around 2004.
I have deposited at BetRoyal using Moneybookers with credit card, but it never appeared on my account at BetRoyal even though it was charged to my credit card. I complained to both sides, but each of them were blaming the other party. After many mails I gave up and lost my 50 USD. I could have done chargeback, but I didn't. What would you have done?

The second case was in 2006.
I have made 5500 USD withdrawal from my Moneybookers account to my bank account. When it arrived to my account it was like 5300 USD in local currency (I used the worst conversion rate available in any local bank).
First they gave me some bullshit about that they don't charge anything just the 1.8 USD flatfee.
After I mentioned that I would contact the Financial Ombudsman they came up with the following explanation (copied from their original mail):

Here is the break down of your withdrawal transaction with the corresponding FX Rates used at the time the funds were wired from our Commerzbank Bank account:

1. Requested withdrawal of USD 5495.00 divided by the EUR = USD FX rate which was 1.311123 at the time your funds were wired > USD 5495.00 / 1.311123 = EUR 4191.063691
2. Then the EUR 4191.063691 amount is divided by our FX rate fee of 1.75 %, thus EUR 4191.063691 / 1.0175 = EUR 4118.981514
3. Finally, EUR 4118.981514 was multiplied by the EUR = HUF FX rate which was 256.925 at the time your funds were wired > EUR 4118.981514 * 256.925 = HUF 1058269.320000 (a rounded off amount).

They thought it is normal to lose 200 USD on a bank transfer.

Since that I use Moneybookers as last resort for withdrawal.

Sorry for the derail.

 

[chuchu59]

With all due respect Nifty (and Dunover) you are doing the same what you normally accuse Vinylweatherman: making up a story without knowing the facts. You might be right, but there could be other reasons to have dispute with Neteller.

May be a bit off topic but let me give you examples with Moneybookers which could have resulted that they ban me.

The first happened around 2004.
I have deposited at BetRoyal using Moneybookers with credit card, but it never appeared on my account at BetRoyal even though it was charged to my credit card. I complained to both sides, but each of them were blaming the other party. After many mails I gave up and lost my 50 USD. I could have done chargeback, but I didn't. What would you have done?

The second case was in 2006.
I have made 5500 USD withdrawal from my Moneybookers account to my bank account. When it arrived to my account it was like 5300 USD in local currency (I used the worst conversion rate available in any local bank).
First they gave me some bullshit about that they don't charge anything just the 1.8 USD flatfee.
After I mentioned that I would contact the Financial Ombudsman they came up with the following explanation (copied from their original mail):

Here is the break down of your withdrawal transaction with the corresponding FX Rates used at the time the funds were wired from our Commerzbank Bank account:

1. Requested withdrawal of USD 5495.00 divided by the EUR = USD FX rate which was 1.311123 at the time your funds were wired > USD 5495.00 / 1.311123 = EUR 4191.063691
2. Then the EUR 4191.063691 amount is divided by our FX rate fee of 1.75 %, thus EUR 4191.063691 / 1.0175 = EUR 4118.981514
3. Finally, EUR 4118.981514 was multiplied by the EUR = HUF FX rate which was 256.925 at the time your funds were wired > EUR 4118.981514 * 256.925 = HUF 1058269.320000 (a rounded off amount).

They thought it is normal to lose 200 USD on a bank transfer.

Since that I use Moneybookers as last resort for withdrawal.

Sorry for the derail.

While assumptions were made I believe they were more educated guesses based on experiences from veteran players. Several failed PABs do arouse suspicions as Max had more likely than not ruled in favour of the casino and sometimes its just that the player wasn't in the right. As for the row with Neteller a negative balance does seem to indicate something is wrong and a chargeback by the OP is a distinct possibility. Of course these are all assumptions but we just cannot side with the player and accept his explanations at face value.

 

[mrmark21]

I'm generally pro-player but have to agree with Dunover/Nifty on this one. I actually wanted to point out hat Nifty said in particular:

I also think the extreme defensiveness and childish name calling by the OP is a big red flag.

People are only defensive when they have something to hide.

 

[dunover]

With all due respect Nifty (and Dunover) you are doing the same what you normally accuse Vinylweatherman: making up a story without knowing the facts. You might be right, but there could be other reasons to have dispute with Neteller.

May be a bit off topic but let me give you examples with Moneybookers which could have resulted that they ban me.

The first happened around 2004.
I have deposited at BetRoyal using Moneybookers with credit card, but it never appeared on my account at BetRoyal even though it was charged to my credit card. I complained to both sides, but each of them were blaming the other party. After many mails I gave up and lost my 50 USD. I could have done chargeback, but I didn't. What would you have done?

The second case was in 2006.
I have made 5500 USD withdrawal from my Moneybookers account to my bank account. When it arrived to my account it was like 5300 USD in local currency (I used the worst conversion rate available in any local bank).
First they gave me some bullshit about that they don't charge anything just the 1.8 USD flatfee.
After I mentioned that I would contact the Financial Ombudsman they came up with the following explanation (copied from their original mail):

Here is the break down of your withdrawal transaction with the corresponding FX Rates used at the time the funds were wired from our Commerzbank Bank account:

1. Requested withdrawal of USD 5495.00 divided by the EUR = USD FX rate which was 1.311123 at the time your funds were wired > USD 5495.00 / 1.311123 = EUR 4191.063691
2. Then the EUR 4191.063691 amount is divided by our FX rate fee of 1.75 %, thus EUR 4191.063691 / 1.0175 = EUR 4118.981514
3. Finally, EUR 4118.981514 was multiplied by the EUR = HUF FX rate which was 256.925 at the time your funds were wired > EUR 4118.981514 * 256.925 = HUF 1058269.320000 (a rounded off amount).

They thought it is normal to lose 200 USD on a bank transfer.

Since that I use Moneybookers as last resort for withdrawal.

Sorry for the derail.

As regards your 'case 1' :
Totally irrelevant, as if the money had left your credit card and never hit the casino, it had to be with Moneybookers so even if you did charge it back Moneybookers would be quits and not negative. This case I have actually seen for myself when I used MB - the system going wrong and the card being debited but not hitting the casino. The casino was then credited about a day later. I see your point; had you chargedback then IF MB had sent it to the casino and you weren't aware yes MB could go negative, but that proves my case - you will only have negative webwallet balances via chargebacks. In your case I would have asked MB for the card transaction reference number, and then an ARN (which they would have to have if they had sent the money on to the casino). This is one problem of 3rd. party webwallets - you lose most layers of protection your credit card gives you when something goes wrong. MB only have to prove the transaction was satisfied to them (which means you had 50$ for a few seconds in your MB account before they transacted it to the casino) and then you purchase of virtual funds will be defended by them to your card provider, regardless of what happened later.

case 2 - This is quite normal I'm afraid, when bank transfers cross borders. You have the sending bank based in one country, usually an intermediary bank and then the destination bank account. IF the currency isn't converted by the first bank, the fees will hammer you when your receiving destination account gets the payment. If your bank never charged you any fee to receive the payment, then the exchange and fees will have been taken at source by MB's bank. The way to get around this is to have (say if you live in the UK) a dollar or euro account which will have a monthly fee but will receive and convert different currency payments fee free - BUT they will always give a mediocre exchange rate which will cost you AND if not a direct bank-bank transfer (i.e. the casino's bank via wire straight to yours) MB will still rape you for fees, and MB probably wouldn't send it in a different currency to your home one anyway even if you told them you had a euro a/c. They make a tidy profit on the fees, as you said.

Neteller and MB are slightly different anyway. Neteller is like a cash account you load up from a card or bank account, SEPARATELY from paying a casino via themselves. All Neteller do is charge you 1.75% to load cash in from any source, and forward it free to casinos. They then charge you to w/d this cash (if you win) either into a registered bank account or via an ATM card. Your deposit to a casino is an entirely separate transaction to loading cash in.
MB, however, if you register a credit card will pay the casino directly from this, i.e. you can't deposit via neteller UNLESS you have existing cash in the account whereas you can have nothing in a MB account and they can credit the casino directly by immediately debiting your credit card and taking a commission.

This is why Neteller IMO is far safer and more convenient than MB.

 

[stokes]

As regards your 'case 1' :
Totally irrelevant, as if the money had left your credit card and never hit the casino, it had to be with Moneybookers so even if you did charge it back Moneybookers would be quits and not negative. This case I have actually seen for myself when I used MB - the system going wrong and the card being debited but not hitting the casino. The casino was then credited about a day later. I see your point; had you chargedback then IF MB had sent it to the casino and you weren't aware yes MB could go negative, but that proves my case - you will only have negative webwallet balances via chargebacks. In your case I would have asked MB for the card transaction reference number, and then an ARN (which they would have to have if they had sent the money on to the casino). This is one problem of 3rd. party webwallets - you lose most layers of protection your credit card gives you when something goes wrong. MB only have to prove the transaction was satisfied to them (which means you had 50$ for a few seconds in your MB account before they transacted it to the casino) and then you purchase of virtual funds will be defended by them to your card provider, regardless of what happened later.

case 2 - This is quite normal I'm afraid, when bank transfers cross borders. You have the sending bank based in one country, usually an intermediary bank and then the destination bank account. IF the currency isn't converted by the first bank, the fees will hammer you when your receiving destination account gets the payment. If your bank never charged you any fee to receive the payment, then the exchange and fees will have been taken at source by MB's bank. The way to get around this is to have (say if you live in the UK) a dollar or euro account which will have a monthly fee but will receive and convert different currency payments fee free - BUT they will always give a mediocre exchange rate which will cost you AND if not a direct bank-bank transfer (i.e. the casino's bank via wire straight to yours) MB will still rape you for fees, and MB probably wouldn't send it in a different currency to your home one anyway even if you told them you had a euro a/c. They make a tidy profit on the fees, as you said.

Neteller and MB are slightly different anyway. Neteller is like a cash account you load up from a card or bank account, SEPARATELY from paying a casino via themselves. All Neteller do is charge you 1.75% to load cash in from any source, and forward it free to casinos. They then charge you to w/d this cash (if you win) either into a registered bank account or via an ATM card. Your deposit to a casino is an entirely separate transaction to loading cash in.
MB, however, if you register a credit card will pay the casino directly from this, i.e. you can't deposit via neteller UNLESS you have existing cash in the account whereas you can have nothing in a MB account and they can credit the casino directly by immediately debiting your credit card and taking a commission.

This is why Neteller IMO is far safer and more convenient than MB.

For case 1. I was not very familiar with the processes back then, so I did not know who should I have contacted (and MB was not keen to help me).

Case 2. My problem was the double conversion plus the transaction fee. There was no reason to convert from USD to EUR and send to local bank and then to convert there from EUR to local currency.

Sorry for being offtopic. I hope the OP will return and shed some lights about his case with Neteller.

 

[chuchu59]

Stokes,

You aren't being entirely off-topic. Your MB issue bears some relevance to the Neteller issue and lets us know more on how the former works. Given the various concerns on the OP's issue with Neteller I hope he/she returns with some more info lest his/her integrity be damaged.