Anyone ever notice?? Online Blackjack

[toofast4u]

That while you are playing online, you can win about 50/50, but all of the sudden the casino gets really lucky and magically wins 10 times in a row?? Laughable , the thing that cracks me up, watch how many times in a real land based casino the dealer wins 10+ times in a row. I have seen it happen on EXTREMELY rare occasions, maybe once or twice.

Heres something to chew on next time that happens to one of you, bet the minimum, and watch how many hands in a row you lose. Then, take that number and multiply it by the bet size before the series of losses started, I have notice that 90% of the time, if I would have kept betting at that original level, my final balance would be you guessed it, a big fat '0'. This seems to happen at every casino, I have yet to find one thats not like that online. Best idea is to be the minimum until that losing streak is over and then resume normal play, seems to work sometimes.

Yet even more proof that online casinos are rigged Or maybe I am just paranoid, haha, probably not.

 

[nafanny29]

I hate to say it but I do agree with you. Online BJ, or any game IMO is not truely "random" at 90% of the casinos. Im of the belief that a lot of the time the software knows that you are gonna win/lose before the cards hit the green pixels!!

 

[toofast4u]

Yeah, IMO the cards are just a representation of what has already happened, I mean, how do you know that if you hadn't hit that 15 against the dealers up card that the dealer would have gotten the same bustcard as you?? I just think whenever its the dealers turn to win, they are going to get whatever cards necessary to make it happen. I think the software is programmed to take in a certain% of all wagers taken, rather than just being the natural house edge that most casinos have, its just one giant slot machine.

The thing is, notice how tight lipped everyone is when it comes to actually showing us how the software really works. I have always encouraged someone from the inside to step up and tell the true tale of whats going on inside, IMO if I am going to spend even $1 at any casino, I want proof that is not rigged.

 

[cipher]

Yeah, IMO the cards are just a representation of what has already happened, I mean, how do you know that if you hadn't hit that 15 against the dealers up card that the dealer would have gotten the same bustcard as you?? I just think whenever its the dealers turn to win, they are going to get whatever cards necessary to make it happen. I think the software is programmed to take in a certain% of all wagers taken, rather than just being the natural house edge that most casinos have, its just one giant slot machine.

The thing is, notice how tight lipped everyone is when it comes to actually showing us how the software really works. I have always encouraged someone from the inside to step up and tell the true tale of whats going on inside, IMO if I am going to spend even $1 at any casino, I want proof that is not rigged.

There's a lot of food for thought in both of your 2 posts Toofast4u and NaFanny. I've said it before that these quote "Random Number Generators" are anything but random. In my opinon all of the data that's coming of the software manufacturers feeds are nothing short of pre-determined wins and losses and I'm convinced that better than 95% of the casino owners out there are not even aware of that fact. Have a good one.

 

[mitch]

I think the software is programmed to take in a certain% of all wagers taken, rather than just being the natural house edge that most casinos have, its just one giant slot machine.
.

I can't understand why people spend money when they are convinced they are being cheated! Are they masochists or what or do they suffer from short term memory loss?

How many times do we have to read posts from players telling us about rigged casinos and then read further posts from the same players how they have deposited in the same casinos and been robbed again!

Give us a break. Casinos have the edge, you know that, you will lose unless you are an advantage player and use bonuses intelligently.

If casinos are rigged how come I win regularly? I have won well over $30,000
this year, winning every month. I have won over $7000 alone in December (my best month) due to the extra bonuses offered at this time of year.

In the last 2 months I have deposited at 9 casinos were they offer only sticky bonuses, my tactics at these casinos is to bet the whole amount on the first bet, (good advantage play) I have won 6 of these bets. (Lucky) Since this an obvious advantage play why would casinos not cheat you on this bet if the software is rigged?

Am I blessed with luck in some way or do players need to accept responsibilty for the way they play and not blame the casinos for their losses?

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to convert people, keep losing, blame the software, it's in my interest.

I am sure KK, Clayman and Vesuvio will be silently smiling at all this talk of rigged games. These are winners not losers, how come?

Any way, Merry Xmas to everyone at Casinomeister and hopefully a prosperous New Year.

Mitch

"win don't gamble"

 

[toofast4u]

No offense, but I have a hard time believing that you win every time, unless you are a casino yourself No one, I don't care what system you preach, is going to win in the long run with online games, period. If there was a system, that all of us could use, to win consistently as you say you do, then online casinos wouldn't be in business.

I was merely pointing out a pattern here, it is so stinking obvious with 90% of the online games that its not even funny. No house, I don't care if its the worst luck for the player possible, is going to win 15 hands in a row with the player playing perfect basic strategy, but somehow its commonplace here online, and the software providers just chuckle when they read stuff like this, because no one does anything about it.

I to have won on several occasions, but however its about 1 out of 10 times, and usually the win is between $500-$1000, if I win less than that, then I usually just spend it away, so I am saying it is possible to win, just so long as you are wary of when they go into this 'takedown mode',. there is nothing suttle about it, they will get multiple blackjacks in a row, seemingly impossible mutiple card 21s, and you will bust out on 12 each time and you will not be able to hit a double down to save your life, until you break out of the pattern.

 

[toofast4u]

In the last 2 months I have deposited at 9 casinos were they offer only sticky bonuses, my tactics at these casinos is to bet the whole amount on the first bet, (good advantage play) I have won 6 of these bets. (Lucky) Since this an obvious advantage play why would casinos not cheat you on this bet if the software is rigged?

I have noticed, that most of the time especially if you just signed up with a casino, your first bet is a winner, so that point is irrelevant. My point was the unlikelyhood of the dealer going on such a winning rampage as they do, which I have never seen in 8 years of land based blackjack.

 

[bethug]

The only software is random is offline playtec. I agree with the point of land, I play on land and online and not to often do I see even 7 hand losing streaks. That why when I got to Vegas its easy for me to make a few thousand.

Play the fun mode of playtec offline, you will see a true random game at its best, switch over to real money you will see a fixed game at its best.

But it can still be beat.

 

[bpb]

No offense, but I have a hard time believing that you win every time, unless you are a casino yourself No one, I don't care what system you preach, is going to win in the long run with online games, period. If there was a system, that all of us could use, to win consistently as you say you do, then online casinos wouldn't be in business.

He wins because he takes advantage of the bonuses offered. That's the only way to have an edge over the online games.

Unless of course, you are one of the chosen few on this board who are able to magically turn a negative expectation game into a positive expecation one. There are a few of them floating around.

I will say however, that if I had to pick one of the mainstream gaming companies to call rigged ... Playtech would get the nod. Whenever I double down in blackjack switch, I fully expect to be dealt a 2,3, or 4. I swear I've gotten nowhere near the expected number of tens doubling on an 11. Then again, I have no evidence to back this up ... and since I just took the Golden Palace group for a couple of grand on a sticky bonus carpet bombing run ... who am I to complain.

 

[Vesuvio]

I am sure KK, Clayman and Vesuvio will be silently smiling at all this talk of rigged games. These are winners not losers, how come?

Bah humbug! I do think on-line casinos are rigged in various ways (to increase variance, perhaps balance the books) but most of the software gives about the right percentage payout over time. If you play with decent bonuses you've got such a large edge the casinos would have to engage in some very blatant cheating to stop you winning in the long run.

 

[Black21Jack]

He wins because he takes advantage of the bonuses offered. That's the only way to have an edge over the online games.

No it's not. It's the only way to have to risk your money with being locked into wagering requirements. I do not understand this way of thinking at all, and it is repeated time and time again on this board. If I deposit $1000.00 and turn it into $1500.00 in a matter of minutes, or slowly over the course of two days using no bonus, playing $100.00 hands I can cash out the full amount immediately when my bankroll hits $1500.00. If I deposit $1000.00 at Virtual Casino and claim the 100% fully cashable deposit bonus for $20 - $150 I do not claim bonuses so I don't know how they work the percentages but on a $1000.00 deposit I would assume I would receive the $150.00 bonus. Now I have just locked my money into a 30X playthrough requirement, with a max cashout of 25X. Again as I said I don't know how bonuses work but I assume that is 30X my deposit plus bonus which would be $1150.00 x 30 am I right? That is absolutely ridiculous just to receive $150.00 with a max cashout of 25X the amount. That is way too much wagering, and way too risky. Not to mention the fact that even reputable casinos have been known to lock accounts and return deposits for suspicion of bonus abuse and the use of multiple accounts to receive them. I had an account locked recently at an MG casino that I just registered at because they said I had duplicate accounts. I did not remember that I had registered years ago. I called support and they immediately closed the old account and reopened my newly registered account. I am 100% certain that if I had used a bonus at the new account they would not have been so forgiving. It is too much hassles and risk. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I know bonuses to work (the percentages and wagering). I could turn $1000.00 into $1500.00 in 20 minutes, guaranteed everytime I play, and I can cashout immediately.

 

[gfkostas]

I made 9 deposits yesterday and today at Inter casino$ and lost all.I was never actually winning at any point.Never had the chance to enjoy,,,,Never had similar experience at live casinos which makes me beleive that something is up.......

 

[bpb]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I know bonuses to work (the percentages and wagering).

You are correct ... that is how they work. Most bonuses have
a) a deposit amount D
b) a bonus amount B
c) a wagering requirement multiplier WR (this sometimes varies based on the game you play. For example, many RTG sites require double the wagering requirement when playing BJ or Vid Poker. Most casinos bar roulette ... which is the stupidest thing on earth, given that every bet on an American table suffers a 5%+ house advantage.)

Then you have the house advantage of the game you are playing on ... HA

So if (D+B)*WR*HA < B ... then you have a positive expectation (assuming the bonus is fully cashable).

I could turn $1000.00 into $1500.00 in 20 minutes, guaranteed everytime I play, and I can cashout immediately.

You are one of those people who can magically turn a negative expectation game into a positive one. Congratulations on your $1,500 an hour win rate. The rest of us mere mortals need to rely on advantage playing to reliably book a win. Please don't hold this against us.

 

[virtualted]

Two things your explanation of bonuses is right on except the reason for no roulette and for that matter craps and baccarat, is the fact on those three games you can bet against yourself. Take roulette if you bet 25.00 on red abd black and 25.00 on odd an even and 25.00 on high and low, and another 10.00 on green. You would have wagered 160.00 in bets and most proabably have broken even . That is why we do not let even money cancellation bets. Same holds true on pass and don't pass at craps.
Second, Players need to realize that when playing on line how fast the game really is. In Vegas a typical black jack game deals around 20-30 hands per hour, with shuffling and cutting and dealing thrown in. On RTG software I have seen players playing 750 per hands per hour, most players average 500 hands per hour. This is why some of things that you never see in a live game but only on line is not true. If you play 1 hour on line 500 hands, and than go sit at a Vegas table non stop for 10-15 hours straight you will see the same occurances.It is just hard to remember what hand you got 6 hours ago at a table, but it is easy to remember what happened 10 minutes ago on the computer.
Blackjack21, what is the longest session you played at an online casino?

 

[toofast4u]

Merry Christmas Everyone

IMO the only thing bounuses are good for now days are keeping from losing as quick, the playthrough requirements are way too high, they set them by calculating a comfortable likelyhood that you will lose your money in X number of hands. Personally I could give a flying #$@% about the bounus anyways, I just look at it as another $50 or whatever to bounce back and get back into the positive. I think bonus hunting is dead, unless you are one of the people that makes max deposits to get your max bonus, even at that the percentages are working against you. I remember the days of 8x playthrough when bonus hunting was rampant.

I think another reason the dealer goes on such hot streaks, to stop those who double thier bet on every loss, table limits on some online casinos make that strategy possible, if you have a big bankroll. Even on a $1 minimum table, a 10+ hand win for the dealer spells disaster for those who use that strategy.

I still, would love to see some software providers excuse as to why the dealer regularly wins 10+ hands in a row and how they can say its a fair game

Bottom line, any casino, online or land based, wants your money, bad. And if you think its past any casino to rig their games more in their favor then you really need to take a second look at them.

 

[toofast4u]

Two things your explanation of bonuses is right on except the reason for no roulette and for that matter craps and baccarat, is the fact on those three games you can bet against yourself. Take roulette if you bet 25.00 on red abd black and 25.00 on odd an even and 25.00 on high and low, and another 10.00 on green. You would have wagered 160.00 in bets and most proabably have broken even . That is why we do not let even money cancellation bets. Same holds true on pass and don't pass at craps.
Second, Players need to realize that when playing on line how fast the game really is. In Vegas a typical black jack game deals around 20-30 hands per hour, with shuffling and cutting and dealing thrown in. On RTG software I have seen players playing 750 per hands per hour, most players average 500 hands per hour. This is why some of things that you never see in a live game but only on line is not true. If you play 1 hour on line 500 hands, and than go sit at a Vegas table non stop for 10-15 hours straight you will see the same occurances.It is just hard to remember what hand you got 6 hours ago at a table, but it is easy to remember what happened 10 minutes ago on the computer.
Blackjack21, what is the longest session you played at an online casino?

I once played through one incredible night a long time ago at Casino-On-Net for about 15 hours, I had a comp bonus of $682 at the end of it(do the math, I wagered $682,000 in total bets), starting at $25 and ending up at $13,000(wow) Couldn't win a dime to save my life there now I think it was a fluke, my internet connection was very sketchy at the time and for some reason I think it synched me up with the casino just right and I was winning for 15 straight hours.

Sorry, just thought I would add that as it brought that back to memory

 

[bpb]

Two things your explanation of bonuses is right on except the reason for no roulette and for that matter craps and baccarat, is the fact on those three games you can bet against yourself. Take roulette if you bet 25.00 on red abd black and 25.00 on odd an even and 25.00 on high and low, and another 10.00 on green. You would have wagered 160.00 in bets and most proabably have broken even . That is why we do not let even money cancellation bets.

It doesn't matter at all how you spread your bets on a roulette wheel. You have an expected loss of (2/38) * your bet amount. (5.26% HA) (There is one exception ... if you bet on the 0/00/1/2/3 5 way bet, your expected loss is higher)

Therefore, if I deposit $100 at your casino and claim a $100 bonus with 15x D+B wagering, then my expected loss over the wagering at roulette is ($200 * 20 * .0526) = $157.

On craps, opposing bets similarly are not risk free. There is an expected loss of (1/36)*)1/2 * your bet amount (1.39%) (Since the don't pass bet pushes on a craps 12)

If I do the same deposit $100 get $100 with 15x, then my expected loss placing opposing bets at craps is ($41.7). So I'd still be expected to win money on this proposition.


But here's the nutty thing. You let people fulfill the wagering requirement playing BJ, with a .58% house advantage. You deny people from playing craps, even though playing the don't pass/ laying full odds has a .57% house advantage, and betting the pass/don't pass simultaneously has a 1.39% HA. What's far more ludicrous, is preventing people from clearing their bonus on roulette ... which I would suspect is the game that you make your most money from (5.26% HA American ... 2.63% European)


Therefore Ted, I would recommend that you immediately remove the bonus clearing restriction on at least Roulette, and let all the people who think they know what they're doing place opposing bets to their hearts content. Please set aside a percentage of these newfound profits and send them to me as my consulting fee

 

[Vesuvio]

No it's not. It's the only way to have to risk your money with being locked into wagering requirements. I do not understand this way of thinking at all, and it is repeated time and time again on this board.

Perhaps it's just the Christmas drinks talking, but I really don't see what confuses you about bonus hunting. It's an extremely simple and mathematically proven 'system' - it's discussed openly on message boards and results are compared. Everyone using it wins. Even with the higher wagering requirements I rarely play non-sticky bonuses where the expected result's worse than keeping 70-80% of the bonus. Of course the casinos try to make individual bonuses risky, but in the long run you'll make the 70-80% profit. What don't you understand? Individual bonuses are quite small, but in a year you can make upwards of $30000 with no luck. Obviously you don't need to bother as you can make that amount, guaranteed, in 20 hours, but unless you want to give us your system and proof it works then what are we poor bonus whores to do?

 

[KasinoKing]

I am sure KK, Clayman and Vesuvio will be silently smiling at all this talk of rigged games. These are winners not losers, how come?

Hi Mitch. You're right again!
Christmas / New year greatings to all winners & losers, from Czech Republic!
Looking forward to some more advantage play in January!
KK

 

[mitch]

Christmas / New year greatings to all winners & losers, from Czech Republic!
Looking forward to some more advantage play in January!
KK

Cheers KK.

Wishing you and yours a happy and prosperous New Year, though that should be a certainty if you keep following your patented WAG system and stay away from the fruits.

Still chasing your record, up to 20 months consecutive winning now and December was my best ever month up $7500.

By the way have you noticed how you jinxed Nafanny when you threatened to become a Bolton fan, they have lost every game since!

Poor old Nafanny's even had to change his logo now.
Don't you think you should remove the curse of KK for the New Year.

Mitch

 

[nafanny29]

By the way have you noticed how you jinxed Nafanny when you threatened to become a Bolton fan, they have lost every game since!

Poor old Nafanny's even had to change his logo now.
Don't you think you should remove the curse of KK for the New Year.

Mitch

Please remove the KK curse!!! I have changed the logo also because ever since I uploaded it Bolton have gone belly up!!!

One minute possible Europe, next religation battle

 

[Clayman]

He wins because he takes advantage of the bonuses offered. That's the only way to have an edge over the online games.
Unless of course, you are one of the chosen few on this board who are able to magically turn a negative expectation game into a positive expecation one.

Hope all had a Merry Xmas.

I think I was smiling, maybe just a little anyway. I'd worry alot more about bet size to total bankroll than major softwares being rigged.

I just figured out my lifetime payback over all providers is 100.21% if I had flat-bet every hand. This I attribute to the sheer dumb luck of being about 1 standard deviation ahead. Eventually I expect the worm will turn.

My payback, based on actual profit without any bonuses divided by total dollars actually wagered is 100.94%. So I have made almost a penny on every dollar ever wagered without any bonuses. This I attribute to judicial use of a minor progressive system that yields a small win a high percentage of the time. And, like Bethug says, it probably helps to quit at a certain point if it's not working.
So it's not necessarily that hard to show a profit with your own money, even for a mostly flat-better like me. Have I turned a neg EV game into a positive one? Of course not. BJ, while sometimes cruel, is a forgiving mistress too.

Throw the bonuses in and the actual payback is now 106.41% (total profit over total dollars actually wagered). I think when I make 6.4 cents on every dollar I wager, I have turned a neg EV game into a positive one. Well, feels like it anyway

 

[mitch]

Hope all had a Merry Xmas.

I think I was smiling, maybe just a little anyway. I'd worry alot more about bet size to total bankroll than major softwares being rigged.

I just figured out my lifetime payback over all providers is 100.21% if I had flat-bet every hand. This I attribute to the sheer dumb luck of being about 1 standard deviation ahead. Eventually I expect the worm will turn.

My payback, based on actual profit without any bonuses divided by total dollars actually wagered is 100.94%. So I have made almost a penny on every dollar ever wagered without any bonuses. This I attribute to judicial use of a minor progressive system that yields a small win a high percentage of the time. And, like Bethug says, it probably helps to quit at a certain point if it's not working.
So it's not necessarily that hard to show a profit with your own money, even for a mostly flat-better like me. Have I turned a neg EV game into a positive one? Of course not. BJ, while sometimes cruel, is a forgiving mistress too.

Throw the bonuses in and the actual payback is now 106.41% (total profit over total dollars actually wagered). I think when I make 6.4 cents on every dollar I wager, I have turned a neg EV game into a positive one. Well, feels like it anyway

Hi Clayman

I also keep a record of every bet I make. I don't keep a running total though,
perhaps I should.

Looking back at my last 30042 bets I would have lost 194 units if I had flat-betted. This gives me a theoretical return of 99.35% very close to probability ( but a bit unlucky ) but from your figures it looks like you have stolen some of my luck.

However, my total actual percentage return over these bets is better than yours. Bonuses are a proportion of this of course but surprisingly only a minor portion.

I also play a non-aggressive progression system looking to recover units when the cards are 'against me' ( I know it's not logical but it keeps me from total boredom whilst playing )

It's hard to believe that it is the 'system' that is responsible for this variation from probability. ( perhaps I have found Black21jack's system by accident! )

I guess I must be lucky on my bigger bets ( certainly my session last night helps the return - see my post on the winning screenshots thread - even though I am a little embarassed by my stupid gambling )

Total theoretical return though confirms that online casino software (apart from the obvious scam operations ) is playing a fair game.

Best wishes for the New Year

Mitch

"win don't gamble"

 

[Clayman]

Looking back at my last 30042 bets I would have lost 194 units if I had flat-betted. This gives me a theoretical return of 99.35%

Hey it's good to know someone else suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and records everything.

And send me a case of whatever it is that gets you winning $2000 doubles! Heck, send me two.

Small point - I was just going to say I hope you meant 30042 dollars wagered in the above as opposed to 30042 dealer upcards. Sorry it's my OCD kicking in again.

Happy New Year to you - you're not going to and gamble are you? Nahhhh.

 

[mitch]

Small point - I was just going to say I hope you meant 30042 dollars wagered in the above as opposed to 30042 dealer upcards. Sorry it's my OCD kicking in again.

QUOTE]

No I do mean actual bets. My theoretical 194 unit loss is assuming I had flat betted the whole way. Of course if I had flat betted $1 a hand it would be $30042 bet and $194 lost.

In my simplistic recording system I record splits and doubles as 2 bets and I count a player blackjack as 1.5 wins.

All the best to you and yours for the New Year.

Mitch