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Anyone able to restore my faith in online blackjack?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Savatage79, Aug 19, 2016.

    Aug 19, 2016
  1. Savatage79

    Savatage79 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I don't want to believe it's rigged as I've won nicely with slots, but I can't seem to for the life of me do anything in blackjack as the dealers are spot on perfect almost every single time. I went into practice and racked up 6k like nothing, but real time play the dealer will get BJ almost 9 times out of 10 it seems.

    Thing is, I get if that's a few sessions. But I'd think there'd be times when I could make a small gain, but just doesn't seem to ever be possible.

    Any tips or casinos that you can actually get somewhere with their online blackjack?
     
  2. Aug 19, 2016
  3. lnspin

    lnspin Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster - Mygamblinglife.com
    Location:
    WorldWide
    To be totally honest with you i have had the same exact results.
     
  4. Aug 20, 2016
  5. tinybettor

    tinybettor Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Retail Store Manager
    Location:
    Australia
    I would avoid any of the online table games like the plague if I were you. The consistent nature of the dealer's 'lucky' streaks are just too astonishing for me to trust it.
     
  6. Aug 20, 2016
  7. Savatage79

    Savatage79 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    But that's what confuses me a little. Slots do seem to be decent and In my experience pretty lucrative when they're hitting, and but why do table games seem to be totally opposite and feel completely rigged?
     
  8. Aug 21, 2016
  9. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Let me preface this by saying I rarely play BJ online, or in B&Ms.

    But you play so fast online compared to B&Ms. 6 people at a table at land based casino, you might play 50 hands in an hour, and maybe less if there is a shuffle, or a newbie or chatty player.

    You can play 50 hands in a couple of minutes if you have perfect strategy memorized online.

    So an hour playing online vs one in a B&M will result in about 30x higher losses overall at the same stakes.

    Unlike slots, you'll never hit a those 25x, 50x, 200x, 1000x bet wins.

    Pretty rare to find a one deck game in a B&M, which you can still do online. Virtual decks are "shuffled" after every hand, ie a new deck. I thought this made your odds worse, but a lot of years ago I was informed I was wrong by a math head or two here, and I'm willing to believe that's true if you are not counting cards. You don't have to tip the dealer.

    I think the RNGs are fair. It's just that you are playing 25 or 30 or more times as many hands.

    If BJ is your game, I think the community and comps are better at your local land based.
     
  10. Aug 21, 2016
  11. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    Got to agree with JB here.

    I've seen some large datasets collected on a selection of the major software's Blackjack games and those results I've seen have fallen within expectation.

    I think the OP is also falling into the trap of using their own limited result set to judge fairness. It's great to hear that they've had some nice results when playing slots. Always happy to hear about a player winning. However, the simple truth about gambling is that the player is expected to lose. This is a basic mathematical fact. The longer you play the more likely you are to have lost money. Trying to determine which games are fair based on the mathematically small sample sizes any individual player experiences isn't possible as the sample sizes are almost always too small to draw a valid conclusion. The human brain is programmed to look for patterns and doesn't cope well with the realities of the volume of play it takes to actually conclude that even a low variance game like Blackjack is fair/unfair so people are inclined to jump to conclusions that aren't based on solid information. Slots games in general have a far higher House Edge than Blackjack. So if you've won while playing slots that's, in general, less likely than winning while playing Blackjack, though in both cases this is less likely than losing.

    Alongside this, as JB pointed out, the rate of play online vastly exceed the rate of play at an offline of live game. More play = greater likelihood of loss. That said, online slots are just as fast if not faster.

    And then there's bet sizing to consider. A lot of player will be higher on Blackjack than they will on slots. There's more of a tendency to select a bet size and remain relatively consistent when playing a slots game while there's more of a tendency to change up the bet sizes at Blackjack, moving up and down and sometime risking significantly more than you would on a single spin on a slots game. This creates higher variance.

    My recommendations would be the following:

    1) Try to slow your rate of play. This can be done in a variety of ways: take more breaks, take more time to consider what play you want to make, switch tables regularly, switch to live dealer games instead of RNG.

    2) Choose games with more favourable rules. A bit of self advertisement here (apologies to all) but you can get a good idea of how favourable a game's rule set is here - You must register/login in order to see the link.. Generally you want to avoid any game that doesn't have a 3:2 payout on Blackjack. That's a good starting point.

    3) Learn Basic Strategy for the game you're playing. This will slow your rate of play down while you're learning and ensure you're playing against the lowest House Edge possible. It's important to realise (many players don't) that there isn't just one 'Basic Strategy'. BS is dependent on the rules you're playing against and often the number of decks in play, so there will be some different plays when you switch between games. Again the rules for any specific game can be found at the above link.

    The bottom line is that the best way to lose less playing any online game is to bet less.

    TP
     
  12. Aug 21, 2016
  13. Savatage79

    Savatage79 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    That's fine if that's the overall opinion. I can get behind all of that.. But for whatever reason I simply walk away from blackjack feeling like I just been played and slots I feel I at least have had success. So it'd probably a thing where online bj just isn't for me, if I could sit down once and make a gain in bj I probably wouldn't be posting this.. I found that unlike slots, when I put money in bj it's gone without even a fluctuation. But if others have different experiences then I say that's awesome to hear because it at least doesn't make me feel online bj is a complete waste
     
  14. Aug 22, 2016
  15. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I will repeat yet again, I'm sure the online BJ progs are straight but seem to be extremely streaky with noticeable dealer runs that defy logic and stretch ones mathematical forgiveness to the edge. The games seem to play the same as slots and do you see one that states the game is being dealt from say a virtual shoe of 4 or 8 decks? Nope - because being online the programme has to deal remotely with card-counters and does so by using an infinite pick algorithm which in turn produces the stupid results you wouldn't see in a B&M game.

    If you think about it the online game HAS to be different from the B&M game.
     
  16. Aug 22, 2016
  17. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    Mathematically a 4 deck game is more similar to an infinite deck game than it is a single deck game. I understand why you feel that the use of an infinite number of decks has to be different to a game with a shuffle point, but the streaks your talking about simply aren't explainable by this variation. In fact, with a game that is shuffled after every round you keep the game in the closest format to the mathematical model that has been established for the game. Basic strategy has been devised specifically for the first hand off a freshly shuffled shoe. With every card that's removed from the deck the distribution changes and Basic Strategy becomes less optimal. That's actually part of what card counting does, allow the player to know when to deviate from Basic Strategy due to the change in distribution of the cards.

    Further to this, you're actually more likely to see streaks in a standard game than an online game. In those situations where either a lot of low value or a lot of high value cards come out of the shoe you are more likely to have seen a losing/winning streak having already occurred and now the odds are reversed so you're more likely to see a winning/losing streak over the remainder of the shoe. This can only happens where the deck isn't shuffled after every round.

    I've played a LOT both on and offline and I've felt the same about the online game at points but gut feelings simply aren't a good starting position to draw conclusions about the function of casino games. What you're more likely experiencing here is a side effect of the increased rate of play - if you win 20 out of 30 hand over a period of 20-30 minutes it doesn't seem such a significant change in balance compared to the same 20 out of 30 in 5-10 minutes. Online makes the streaks feel far more significant because they happen comparatively very quickly.
     
  18. Aug 23, 2016
  19. Savatage79

    Savatage79 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I'm baffled tho by the recent winners I see hitting for 26k 34k etc... Anyone ever build up a bankroll like that off bj?
     
  20. Aug 23, 2016
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes - the dealer.:)
     
  22. Aug 23, 2016
  23. Savatage79

    Savatage79 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Contractor
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Ha

    Check out bovada recent winners tho, you'll see dudes making big bucks on blackjack.
     
  24. Aug 23, 2016
  25. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    I've seen a few £10k-£15k wins while playing Blackjack at £25/hand with starting balances of £100-£200. But then I've seen a lot of periods where I lost everything doing that as well.....
     

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