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Any RTP news/surprises revealed by UK disclosure requirements?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Richas, Nov 2, 2014.

    Nov 2, 2014
  1. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Has there been any interesting disclosures of the RTPs of games now that UK licenced firms are required to publish the RTP?

    Any higher/lower than previously thought? Any where the same brand of game has different RTPs at different sites or has this requirement either not been implemented yet or just not led to new information for players that was not available before?
     
  2. Nov 4, 2014
  3. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    I just checked a couple of download casinos.

    Neither were disclosing the RTP of the slot games anywhere that I could see. Sigh.
     
  4. Nov 4, 2014
  5. dusky

    dusky Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    England
    Not showing at 32Red when I've just checked.
     
  6. Nov 4, 2014
  7. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Well they should be telling us the RTP.

     
  8. Nov 4, 2014
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Here are the RTPs of quite a few games at Videoslots - which include a number of MGS games if anyone is interested.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I've never understood the obsession with RTPs - the house is going to win in the long run. And you're going to have to play quite a few hands before you're going to get an accurate RTP anyway :D
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Nov 4, 2014
  11. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    .
    Yep, but they are not, and imo this is one of the best things about the new UK laws for the players.

    However frankly every casino that didn't do this before getting a UK licence seems to be blatantly ignoring this rule now.

    I have checked a download MG and a download Playtech both at highly reputable accredited casinos, both are ignoring this new rule.
     
  12. Nov 4, 2014
  13. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    I half agree. RTP is less important than knowing if and when the RTP changes or what the optimal play is (or at least principles to work it out) and if that optimal play changes.

    It is a principle thing in terms of openness for me.
     
  14. Nov 4, 2014
  15. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    I'm thinking of writing in to the UKGC about this.

    What are the biggest games from each of the main software suppliers that are failing to meet the standard? Say 4 big games across4 big sites from diferent software suppliers. I'd want the complaint to be specific but cover each of the big newly licenced B2Bs with a specific examle that we are sure is non compliant. I'm more a poker and BJ guy so less familiar with the slot world and how to pick the biggest games that cover the major providers best.
     
  16. Nov 4, 2014
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It's about transparency, rather than knowing the RTP itself. When it was revealed that RTG slots could have one of three settings, it dented trust in the industry's fairness that a game was "set in stone" once released. Much like price comparison websites here in the UK, competition is enhanced by forcing full disclosure of prices. The TRTP of a game is a measure of the cost per spin at a given stake. Whilst the house wins in the end, the cost per spin is a measure of how much entertainment one gets per unit price.

    A further benefit is that the requirement to list TRTP is a strong deterrent to the practice of lowering RTP in order to mislead players into thinking that a promotion at Casino A is better value than one at casino B. Whilst many players don't really care, a few will dig deep and look for variations. If there is nothing to hide, nothing untoward will be found no matter how much digging is done. If it turns out that the games from one specific supplier list the same RTP across the board, it will increase trust in that brand. MGS games are of particular interest as the RTP is supposed to be set in stone, and whenever someone claims that a particular MGS casino has lowered it's RTP, they are told that it's impossible for any operator to access the server to effect such a change.

    Some casinos have already begun listing TRTP of their games, including MGS, and so far it seems that MGS are delivering on what was promised, a fair game at 95% or more RTP, and no variation between operators. Of more interest would be Playtech, supposedly also set in stone like MGS, but with one hell of a lot of shady operators with Playtech turning a blind eye to scams far worse than tweaking the RTP of some games.

    Given that some MGS and Playtech casinos are staying in the UK, it can only be a matter of time before authoritative TRTP data emerges about all their games. Hopefully, nothing unsavoury will be found, and players will have a greater understanding of how variance, rather than RTP, is the key driver of good and bad sessions.
     
  18. Nov 4, 2014
  19. JackTenOff

    JackTenOff Webmaster webmeister

    Occupation:
    nananananana
    Location:
    uk
    Ladbrokes publish the RTP here You must register/login in order to see the link.
    "Deal Or No Deal Instant Win" 66% :what:
     
  20. Nov 4, 2014
  21. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

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    Location:
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    They don't publish figures for their playtech download games (as far as I can see)
     
  22. Nov 5, 2014
  23. jasonuk

    jasonuk Experienced Member

    Location:
    UK
    If you think that's bad... best not to play the trivia-based games then as they're all 45% RTP!

    Battleships 45.00%
    Football Quiz 45.00%
    Hangman 45.00%
    News Time 45.00%
    World Cup Quiz 45.00%
     
  24. Nov 5, 2014
  25. fun4all

    fun4all Senior Member

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    Yep but hangman is epic
     
  26. Nov 5, 2014
  27. sscrabble

    sscrabble Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    accountancy
    Location:
    UK
    It seeks no one has figures of RTP for MGS slots?

    I was just surfing google to see if there was any new info on RTP's, and this came up from Nedplay

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I tried to find how to get to this link from the Nedplay and 32red websites but could find nothing. I assume it might be 'historical' as it does not have a figure for Jurassic Park.

    What it does show is an RTP for all games. As the figures for casino and video poker games are 'actual' long term RTP figures, I assume the slot figures must be as well ?
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 6, 2014
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    I had a tip off from on high. It's available as per regulations, but it's not published where you think it would be.;)

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    It may well be published in a similar manner at other casinos, so try looking under it's "responsible gaming" pages.

    These 32Red figures would of course apply to Microgaming in general, and are probably sourced from Microgaming as these figures would need to be accurate so as to not fall foul of the UK rules.

    They are NOT what you will necessarily experience though, as this is TRTP. Much of what the player experiences in good and bad sessions is the variance, which on some games can be very high. A high variance game could still give a player an actual RTP well below the TRTP, even through prolonged play over several sessions. It's the rare big wins that contain the "missing" RTP, and if you don't hit any your actual RTP will be lower.

    Next step is to look for the figures for Playtech, as if Microgaming have caved and published the figures now that they have been forced to, it's the turn of Playtech to publish on it's UK facing sites. William Hill is an obvious candidate.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Nov 6, 2014
  31. Googobucs

    Googobucs Meister Member

    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    I'm curious to know how they came up with 99.89 % for BlackJack. BlackJack has a .28% house edge if played perfectly and black jacks paying 3-2. That's about the best I've ever seen anyway.
     
  32. Nov 6, 2014
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Good point. Unlike the slots, the Microgaming Blackjack RTP can be calculated from the set of rules and number of decks. This was done years ago and is published on the Wizard of Odds website. Either Microgaming got it wrong, or Michael Shackleford did.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I would tend to believe the figures from Microgaming are adrift, or that the rules for the game are not as stated and used by Michael Shackleford.

    99.89% is actually BETTER than the TRTP calculated by Michael Shackleford, and if true, it's no wonder so many Microgaming casinos fell victim in the past from offering bonuses with Blackjack allowed.

    Maybe this is the first of our surprises upon seeing the "official figures" from Microgaming.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Nov 6, 2014
  35. Wild Reels

    Wild Reels Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    the one that caught my attention the most from that list was the The Dark Knight 88.06%,

    I was expecting the rtp to be fairly bad since you are funding the jackpot through the missing rtp (i.e similar slots but with no jackpot would be at 95-96%), but was a little surprised its that bad,

    thankfully i tend to avoid all jackpot slots anyway because of the above reasons, but seeing the figures ouch,
     
  36. Nov 6, 2014
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This could be misleading as TRTP really SHOULD include the progressive payouts as well. The 88.06% looks like the figure for the base game only. Given that these figures are a regulatory matter, rather than mere "marketing", they need to be calculated to a given set of rules set by the UKGC. It's possible that the UKGC have decided that the base game TRTP should be given, rather than the full TRTP to include the deductions for the progressive. It makes sense if you think of it as a responsible gambling measure as most players will only ever see the RTP from the base game, only the lucky few will see one of the top two progressives that will boost their own personal RTP much higher.

    Having made the ruling, it's a chance to see whether the figures presented are properly understood by players, and presented in a consistent manner across the whole UK facing industry.
     
  38. Nov 6, 2014
  39. dusky

    dusky Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    England
    There is no game actually just titled "Blackjack" at an MG casino is there?

    Classic Blackjack which is what I play is listed correctly...

    Classic Blackjack 99.91%
     

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