Another Top Game screw up

bb28

Meister Member
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Nov 18, 2006
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US
Well top game has done it again! Planet 23 had more than one set of terms on their website and they refused to pay a player who won on VP. I was over at GPWA doing a little reading and saw
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thread. :eek: Apparently they can't even get someone to do the math conversion correctly on their bonus - web page either. Unreal!
 

Rusty

Banned User - repetitive flaming
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Jul 23, 2006
Location
Manchester UK
Well top game has done it again! Planet 23 had more than one set of terms on their website and they refused to pay a player who won on VP. I was over at GPWA doing a little reading and saw
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thread. :eek: Apparently they can't even get someone to do the math conversion correctly on their bonus - web page either. Unreal!
Incredible.
Some good points made in that thread too not least that they should have paid the money and got themselves some positive advertising for doing the right thing.
How can these operations be so lacking in business sense never mind ethics?

One thing that was not mentioned is why did the Casino confiscate the winnings?
Even in their "revised" T&C's there is no mention that playing VP will result in confiscation of winnings- only that it counts Zero toward WR.

So absolutely they should pay out but even if they were playing hard-ball and sticking to their idiotic judgement the cashout should of been merely refused and the full amount returned to the players account so they could complete WR.

I know there is a General warning out for Topgame and its Casinos but IMO they belong firmly in the rogue pit by now.
 

me_and_ed

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I got a call last night from C/S at Gold Vegas, he asked why I have not played in a while, I explained to him my concerns with TG, poor guy trying to defend his casino with the software provider constantly staying in the shadows. This is shithole software, with shithole ownership (not the casino itself but TG) in the end he directed me to his RTG casino that I guess Gold Vegas owns too.
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
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I only read this forum, and after reading similar bull on another forum, I could only wonder how many negative issues are really out there with this outfit.
 

bb28

Meister Member
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Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
You would think that they would have been going over EVERYTHING with a fine tooth comb, weeding out anything that could have possibly hurt their credibility even more. Very sloppy and unprofessional as it has been from the start. I don't see how they can ever penetrate the market that has knowledgeable and educated gamblers after all the scandals and big screw ups. Probably the only hope they have for a player base are the ones who don't read the forums and are complete newbies.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Well top game has done it again! Planet 23 had more than one set of terms on their website and they refused to pay a player who won on VP. I was over at GPWA doing a little reading and saw
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
thread. :eek: Apparently they can't even get someone to do the math conversion correctly on their bonus - web page either. Unreal!
Thanks for digging that up Bonita. Why am I not surprised?

I know there is a General warning out for Topgame and its Casinos but IMO they belong firmly in the rogue pit by now.
I couldn't agree more Rusty. This issue, coupled with the fact that the Rome Casino rep is here almost every day, and avoids that "Top Game - Rogue Software" thread like the plague, makes it pretty clear that ethics and players needs/questions aren't too high on their priority list.

I got a call last night from C/S at Gold Vegas, he asked why I have not played in a while, I explained to him my concerns with TG, poor guy trying to defend his casino with the software provider constantly staying in the shadows. This is shithole software, with shithole ownership (not the casino itself but TG) in the end he directed me to his RTG casino that I guess Gold Vegas owns too.
Hey Me_and_ed, any chance that casino was Grande Vegas (or Vegas Grande)? When Grande Vegas first opened, someone here posted an email they had received from them.....but it was signed by a rep with Gold Vegas under their name. The CM rep for Grande was asked about it, but emphatically denied any connection. Or maybe it was Winpalace.com....another RTG that popped up in another thread yesterday, which is apparently associated with Mayflower Casino (another TG outfit).

I only read this forum, and after reading similar bull on another forum, I could only wonder how many negative issues are really out there with this outfit.
Scary thought isn't it? We only know what we're lucky enough to read on message boards. What about all the players who've never posted on a forum in their life?

Probably the only hope they have for a player base are the ones who don't read the forums and are complete newbies.
Good point BB...and like so many online casinos nowadays...they are probably relying on player acquisition (and affiliates bringing in newbies) as opposed to any type of player retention. I've never understood that mindset.
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Hey Me_and_ed, any chance that casino was Grande Vegas (or Vegas Grande)? When Grande Vegas first opened, someone here posted an email they had received from them.....but it was signed by a rep with Gold Vegas under their name. The CM rep for Grande was asked about it, but emphatically denied any connection. Or maybe it was Winpalace.com....another RTG that popped up in another thread yesterday, which is apparently associated with Mayflower Casino (another TG outfit).

Ding Ding Ding.....Big Winner, Grande Vegas.....Dont know what you've won but I will think of something.:D
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
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Rusty said:
I know there is a General warning out for Topgame and its Casinos but IMO they belong firmly in the rogue pit by now.
I couldn't agree more Rusty. This issue, coupled with the fact that the Rome Casino rep is here almost every day, and avoids that "Top Game - Rogue Software" thread like the plague, makes it pretty clear that ethics and players needs/questions aren't too high on their priority list.
Yep. I could not agree more. If I was on the jury, (in a courtroom where juries decided sentencing as opposed to magistrates) I would order them to serve a Life Sentence in Rogue not so much for their incompetence and unethical / shocking behaviour (although rogue-worthy in itself obviously), but for their blatant lies and personal slandering of my good name in their desperate attempts to wave the red flag when caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

I'm still waiting on my challenge for them to produce this "evidence" that I made 6 chargebacks at online casinos. Oh, then later it was changed to 1 chargeback. Is it 6 or 1, you lying Top Game / Rome scoundrels?

I'll tell you the answer - it was a trick question. The answer is 0. You know it. You know that I know it. You know you suck. It's always hard to produce "evidence" when it never existed in the first place, isn't it.

ROGUE with no possibility for parole - and may God have mercy on your (collective) souls.



(Edit: Bryan, I notice the Top Game Support Disaster Rogue page still states that 1 chargeback is claimed - can I please respectfully request this note be edited to reflect the more truthful situation that they have simply just been lying outright the entire time?)
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Hey Me_and_ed, any chance that casino was Grande Vegas (or Vegas Grande)? When Grande Vegas first opened, someone here posted an email they had received from them.....but it was signed by a rep with Gold Vegas under their name. The CM rep for Grande was asked about it, but emphatically denied any connection.
Ding Ding Ding.....Big Winner, Grande Vegas.....Dont know what you've won but I will think of something.:D
Oh goody, I love prizes. :laugh:

Well, if that's the case....it would "seem" that the rep for Grande Vegas lied here on the forum. I say seem because she did admit that it was possible they shared support, and nothing more.

Why the subterfuge and attempt to cover up the connection? I'd sort of like to know exactly what type of connection it is....anyone else? Do they simply share a support/call centre? Or is the affiliation more complex? We have an RTG (winpalace.com) that shares the same affiliate program as a TG outfit (Mayflower Casino). What is the connection between these two? Seeing as Grande Vegas is on the accredited list here.....and Top Game has a warning issued against them....I would think it's a question that deserves an honest answer.
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Oh goody, I love prizes. :laugh:

Well, if that's the case....it would "seem" that the rep for Grande Vegas lied here on the forum. I say seem because she did admit that it was possible they shared support, and nothing more.

Why the subterfuge and attempt to cover up the connection? I'd sort of like to know exactly what type of connection it is....anyone else? Do they simply share a support/call centre? Or is the affiliation more complex? We have an RTG (winpalace.com) that shares the same affiliate program as a TG outfit (Mayflower Casino). What is the connection between these two? Seeing as Grande Vegas is on the accredited list here.....and Top Game has a warning issued against them....I would think it's a question that deserves an honest answer.
I see where your going here however I do not think that some of the casino's should be held accountable for TG's terrible performance, I am sure that the owners of Gold Vegas and Grande Vegas have a lot of money invested in their TG casino, saying this I doubt they saw the shitstorm coming and are probably trying to salvage their investment here, thats no reason to lie about association though and this is just my thought. I do know that Gold Vegas does use their own C/S and not TG's.
 

BLUEWATER

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Location
NoWhere
It wrong to change the T&C without notify the players. This guy should able withdraw his money. If someone made a deposit before the T&C change they should make exception for withdrawal. Far as I'm concern I read their new T&C it only show that playing video poker will not count as wager requirement. Maybe if he start playing slot with the money he won on VP and fullfill his wager requirement then he might able to cash out.
 

RomeCasino

Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami
Joined
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Location
Costa Rica
response from Noah

Thanks for digging that up Bonita. Why am I not surprised?



I couldn't agree more Rusty. This issue, coupled with the fact that the Rome Casino rep is here almost every day, and avoids that "Top Game - Rogue Software" thread like the plague, makes it pretty clear that ethics and players needs/questions aren't too high on their priority list.



Hey Me_and_ed, any chance that casino was Grande Vegas (or Vegas Grande)? When Grande Vegas first opened, someone here posted an email they had received from them.....but it was signed by a rep with Gold Vegas under their name. The CM rep for Grande was asked about it, but emphatically denied any connection. Or maybe it was Winpalace.com....another RTG that popped up in another thread yesterday, which is apparently associated with Mayflower Casino (another TG outfit).



Scary thought isn't it? We only know what we're lucky enough to read on message boards. What about all the players who've never posted on a forum in their life?



Good point BB...and like so many online casinos nowadays...they are probably relying on player acquisition (and affiliates bringing in newbies) as opposed to any type of player retention. I've never understood that mindset.
Hi Guys,

This seems to be an issue between a player and an individual casino, as it concers a misunderstanding of the T&C and not some payout or technical issue, the casino may belong to TopGame, but it does not mean that every issue between a casino and a player immediately means the software provider is at fault and so all other casinos. It should be the operator answering these T&C issues.

Rusty, I was not aware of these questions you posted, can you please repeat them here and I will do my best to answer them (I may need to ask the technical department some stuff so give me a bit of time to reply in full, I'll answer the questions I know first).

Kind Regards,

Noah
Rome Casino
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I see where your going here however I do not think that some of the casino's should be held accountable for TG's terrible performance, I am sure that the owners of Gold Vegas and Grande Vegas have a lot of money invested in their TG casino, saying this I doubt they saw the shitstorm coming and are probably trying to salvage their investment here, thats no reason to lie about association though and this is just my thought. I do know that Gold Vegas does use their own C/S and not TG's.
I totally get your point Me_and_ed....and I think it would be a fair assumption to say that for the most part, players don't really care what associations casinos have with other casinos. Their main concern is if the place they are playing is above board, and pays them on time.

The point I was trying to make is that for me, personally....I would like to know if a casino I play at (or may play at), is associated with any other casinos. In this instance, even if I thought Grande Vegas was the greatest casino on earth....if there's a chance that my playing there helps to put a penny in the pocket of TopGame...then I don't want to play there, regardless of how good Grande Vegas itself is. That's just me.

And I think that as an accredited casino, when a direct question is asked regarding affiliations with other establishments.....an honest answer should be forthcoming. I don't think that's being unreasonable. It shouldn't be some big, hidden secret. What happened to transparency and honesty?

It seems there are more than just this affiliation of casinos lately...Intertops/Jackpot Capital (again, never answered, even though asked directly), GoWild/Casino Titan (hinted at in a thread here, but no solid proof), Winpalace.com/Mayflower Casino (same affiliate program with two different softwares) and now this Gold Vegas/Grande Vegas. I just don't see what the problem is in allowing players to have ALL the info, and allowing them to make informed decisions where to spend their money. Chances are that most wouldn't care if Grande Vegas is affiliated with Gold Vegas.....they'd play at the RTG anyway, if they liked that particular casino. But when direct questions are avoided and sidestepped, it makes me think there's something to hide.

Just an honest answer is all I'm looking for. Hope that clarifies a bit.

Hi Guys,

This seems to be an issue between a player and an individual casino, as it concers a misunderstanding of the T&C and not some payout or technical issue, the casino may belong to TopGame, but it does not mean that every issue between a casino and a player immediately means the software provider is at fault and so all other casinos. It should be the operator answering these T&C issues.

Rusty, I was not aware of these questions you posted, can you please repeat them here and I will do my best to answer them (I may need to ask the technical department some stuff so give me a bit of time to reply in full, I'll answer the questions I know first).

Kind Regards,

Noah
Rome Casino
Hi Noah....there's a whole thread re: TopGame software, and the recent problems with missing symbols, Jackpots being pulled from games with no explanation, etc. It would be worth a read if you haven't read it already. The post in question (with Rusty's questions) can be found here, post #85:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...ues/31796-topgame-slots-rogue-software-9.html

Some of it is technical, and you may have to (as you said) liaise with the techie department.

A couple of the questions I'd most like to see answered are:

Why was the Jackpot amount of $192,000 removed from the game Dougie's Delights, prior to there even being any knowledge of game malfunction (according to the timeline in that thread)?

You have two jackpot games that require a $45 bet (9 liner) and a $65 bet (13 liner) to be able to win the progressive. How is this at all reasonable?

And to go with the above question....there was another thread brought up re: a screenshot that was supposed to be provided to the forum here...a player had gotten the five wilds, but received an almost non existent payout for five wilds...I "think" maybe a few times his original bet. Of course, he was under the assumption he had won the jackpot I guess...but wasn't betting the actual MAX (as above). But still....almost zero payout for five wilds? Is this correct? I may have to find the link to the thread itself so you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

I agree with you that the operator in question should be here answering questions regarding the T&C's screwup. But the point of all this is....how are players supposed to be able to trust ANY Topgame casino with all these issues ongoing...and no definitive answers forthcoming?

Thanks in advance for any info Noah.
 

Rusty

Banned User - repetitive flaming
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Location
Manchester UK
Thanks for the link Pina and here is the link to the 5 Wilds thread.

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-non-bonus-issues/31809-bb28s-thebes-casino-thread.html

Hi Noah, I am sorely tempted to make a weak joke about the flood of complaints Topgame casinos have been receiving here but...Oh sorry.:oops:

Yes you are right to point out that each Casino should be judged on its own merit - in an ideal World anyway.
Unfortunately so many things have gone wrong with Topgame and some of their Casinos recently it is guilt by association I'm afraid.
Anyway if the software can not be trusted then the individual Casinos integrity is a moot point but yes on this particular case it is down to the operator just as the horrible episode with Rome was.

I think there have been 4 or 5 different threads relating to different Topgame software/operator issues, all of them very serious in the last couple of Months.
One would shake players confidence.
Two would hurt your reputation.
Three you have no reputation left to hurt.
I will leave Four and five for others.

It is a real shame because deep down I have a feeling there are some good people involved at some of these Casinos but it has been a horrible catalogue of incidents and despite promises things never seem to get addressed properly or improve.
It gets to the stage where I start to believe that players need more than just a general warning, hence my rogue pit evaluation.
I guess that would be harsh on the likes of Thebes though - but If I receive a 50 note as change and find it is counterfeit but still decide to spend it is that wrong?

Fortunately for everyone, probably, it is not the forum that decides these things though.
 

RomeCasino

Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami
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From Noah - response

Hi,

OK these are all legitimate questions, I'd like to answer everything - including Rusty's questions from the other thread, please give me a day to check up on everything and to verify all facts and I will post a long reply here for all of it tomorrow or today if possible. I apologize for the delay, its not a tactic, I'd just like my answer to be comprehensive.

Kind Regards

Noah
Rome Casino
 

RomeCasino

Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami
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Location
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upodate on VP issue

Just to UPDATE

Planet23 has informed me that the player WILL be paid for the VP win. They acknowledge the problem and will re-write the terms so they are clearer.

Cheers

Noah
 
W

wikidpanda

Guest
Trezz ??

I'm waiting for Trezz' input on this - he usually knows what's going on.
Are these guys legit? I play at 50States mostly and its a TG brand - so far they have been good to me - But I have to admit Im a sucker when it comes to the fine print.:confused:
 

Boris303

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Location
London
Just to UPDATE

Planet23 has informed me that the player WILL be paid for the VP win. They acknowledge the problem and will re-write the terms so they are clearer.

Cheers

Noah
Sounds like a good result, you may want to ask them to update the GPWA thread where the problem stemmed from, you can find it
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Its a shame it has to be made as public as it has done to get the right result, but the main thing is, its ok now. Hopefully lessons have been learnt.
 

RomeCasino

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From Noah - response

Sounds like a good result, you may want to ask them to update the GPWA thread where the problem stemmed from, you can find it
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Its a shame it has to be made as public as it has done to get the right result, but the main thing is, its ok now. Hopefully lessons have been learnt.

Well it isn't official yet, but I was given to understand that is the decision. So lets wait for the player to be informed first.

Cheers

Noah
 

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