Casino Complaint Another Every Matrix Self Exclusion scam with a twistHi

martydavies

Newbie member
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Jan 31, 2013
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Hi,

I am a newbie here so first of all Hello to you all :thumbsup:

Just from light searching on the forum I have soon realised that there is a million threads about Every Matrix Casinos Complaints, I have a typically self exclusion/blocked account from EM on Jetbull's casino, this one has a slight twist to it, here is my story:

I registered with Jetbull casino and deposited £100, I played with this and won £224 - I withdrew these funds and the withdrawal reached my bank account without a problem.

The account remained open and 7 days later I played some more slots and deposited a total of £1700 over 2 days, I soon racked up a healthy £3230 balance and decided to withdraw, this is where it gets interesting.

After submitting this withdrawal I was asked to verify my account, standard practice so I sent the docs across to the team, the next day I get an email from EM self exclusion team stating that I have excluded myself from another EM casino (did not give me the name of the casino and I cannot remember doing this at all) and that my account on Jetbull is currently blocked, HOWEVER, on the email it stated that the self exclusion period has ended and if I wish I can re-open the account again.

I have since replied to them and said I can never remember excluding myself from a EM casino and asked them to confirm which site this is. Also what is going to happen to my withdrawal, I am guessing after researching on this that they will get out of paying my winnings by simply just returning my total deposits during this time, but what I would like to know from you fellow Casinomeister users is that do I have any ammunition to claim my winnings as I was playing absolutely fine for over a week, more importantly, I managed to make a previous withdrawal and that was successful so surely even if what EM are saying about me excluding and blocking my account is even true, surely they would of done this on the first withdrawal? I am genuinely shocked and angry about what they have done as I cannot remember ever self excluding from a EM casino. I think this is a blatant way of getting out of paying me a nice profit and giving me £3200

Safe to say, from this experience I have had my eyes opened, I feel like I should of researched EM and their casinos before signing up as so many other users have experienced the same as me. Any advice or help you guys can give me would really be great and much appreciated.

Thanks for reading my story

Martin
 

Harry_BKK

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Answered to your post here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/buck-butler-everymatrix.75028/

Please try to avoid cross posting in the future.

SE has been a sore issue in the past 2 years and as you have found out there are plenty of threads on CM, not just EM but other groups as well.

The regulation is clear: If you are SE'ed at a sister site then only the deposits have to be returned. All bets/winnings have to be voided.

Good luck for finding an amicable resolution for your issue. :thumbsup:
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
Apologies, you can tell I am a newbie :)

Ok, thanks once again, also as you mentioned previously if the SE period had ended on the sister site prior to my win on Jetbull then they would have to pay the withdrawal?

I will try my best to fight this and get my withdrawal processed but to be honest I would be perfectly happy just to have my total deposits returned and move on
 

Harry_BKK

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Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Thank you for your reply, that's really helped me, do they have to abide by this rule? Or will their terms and conditions get them out of paying the total withdrawal?

EM holds a UK license and the UKGC regulation is very clear on this:

- if you were SE'd at a sister site then only deposits have to returned. All bets/winnings have to be voided.
- if your SE expired prior to the win then they have to pay.

Thank you and I will remember to hit ENTER

Just a quick question regarding your information, do all Casinos have to abide by this rule? My feeling is that EM will try and find a loop hole somehow?

Yes, all casinos with a UK license have to abide by the same UKGC regulations.
 

lnspin

Senior Member
webmeister
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Location
WorldWide
Hi,

I am a newbie here so first of all Hello to you all :thumbsup:

Just from light searching on the forum I have soon realised that there is a million threads about Every Matrix Casinos Complaints, I have a typically self exclusion/blocked account from EM on Jetbull's casino, this one has a slight twist to it, here is my story:

I registered with Jetbull casino and deposited £100, I played with this and won £224 - I withdrew these funds and the withdrawal reached my bank account without a problem.

The account remained open and 7 days later I played some more slots and deposited a total of £1700 over 2 days, I soon racked up a healthy £3230 balance and decided to withdraw, this is where it gets interesting.

After submitting this withdrawal I was asked to verify my account, standard practice so I sent the docs across to the team, the next day I get an email from EM self exclusion team stating that I have excluded myself from another EM casino (did not give me the name of the casino and I cannot remember doing this at all) and that my account on Jetbull is currently blocked, HOWEVER, on the email it stated that the self exclusion period has ended and if I wish I can re-open the account again.

I have since replied to them and said I can never remember excluding myself from a EM casino and asked them to confirm which site this is. Also what is going to happen to my withdrawal, I am guessing after researching on this that they will get out of paying my winnings by simply just returning my total deposits during this time, but what I would like to know from you fellow Casinomeister users is that do I have any ammunition to claim my winnings as I was playing absolutely fine for over a week, more importantly, I managed to make a previous withdrawal and that was successful so surely even if what EM are saying about me excluding and blocking my account is even true, surely they would of done this on the first withdrawal? I am genuinely shocked and angry about what they have done as I cannot remember ever self excluding from a EM casino. I think this is a blatant way of getting out of paying me a nice profit and giving me £3200

Safe to say, from this experience I have had my eyes opened, I feel like I should of researched EM and their casinos before signing up as so many other users have experienced the same as me. Any advice or help you guys can give me would really be great and much appreciated.

Thanks for reading my story

Martin

If you were self excluded, and they allowed you to deposit and play and then pay you, maybe you can file a complaint somewhere,
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
Thank you both for your replies, I really appreciate it.

Yes, Inspin, I am currently waiting for the reply from EM team, if the reply they give me is not satisfactory my next move will be to submit a complaint to UKGC, also maybe to eCOGRA and also Malta Gaming Authority to just for good measure :thumbsup:
 

RichyJ75

Has been a very naughty boy ...
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Joined
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Location
Kent
Surely if the SE had lapsed, then strictly speaking there is no current SE in place and your withdrawal should be honoured?

I had a similar issue with Cassava. I tried Wink Bingo, didn't like bingo so closed the account via SE a few years back. I then opened a casino site at another Cassava branch well beyond the SE period at Wink Bingo. I tried making a withdrawal - lo and behold my account was closed and withdrawal forfeited with them saying I had SE at another of their sites. I argued that the SE had lapsed and as I didn't want to play bingo, had no need to reopen that account.

They then accused me of having an ongoing gambling issue and as such, they have a requirement to extend the SE period indefinitely, therefore giving them grounds to forfeit my winnings as the SE was now current!! Cheeky little devils! ;o)

I did manage to get my winnings out of them, after a bit of a battle with their managers once I eventually got hold of their contact details!

Good luck.

However, there is also another scenario whereby if you had lost your deposits, would you have tried your luck in getting deposits back citing you were SE from another EM site? Unfortunately it is always a nasty area for casino operators and punters.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Thank you both for your replies, I really appreciate it.

Yes, Inspin, I am currently waiting for the reply from EM team, if the reply they give me is not satisfactory my next move will be to submit a complaint to UKGC, also maybe to eCOGRA and also Malta Gaming Authority to just for good measure :thumbsup:

A few pointers:

- The UKGC does not handle player complaints.
- The MGA will reject it because you are in the UK
- eCOGRA only if Jetbull has them as their designated ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution)
- I cannot see the UK version of the Jetbull site but in their T&C's they have to publish their ADR, hence you might want to check who it is.
- You can also submit your complaint here at CM via the PAB service. Jetbull has an active rep and CM is a certified arbitrator. If you decide to go this route then read the FAQ's and submit your complaint here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
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mm4
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Location
Wolverhampton
Surely if the SE had lapsed, then strictly speaking there is no current SE in place and your withdrawal should be honoured?

I had a similar issue with Cassava. I tried Wink Bingo, didn't like bingo so closed the account via SE a few years back. I then opened a casino site at another Cassava branch well beyond the SE period at Wink Bingo. I tried making a withdrawal - lo and behold my account was closed and withdrawal forfeited with them saying I had SE at another of their sites. I argued that the SE had lapsed and as I didn't want to play bingo, had no need to reopen that account.

They then accused me of having an ongoing gambling issue and as such, they have a requirement to extend the SE period indefinitely, therefore giving them grounds to forfeit my winnings as the SE was now current!! Cheeky little devils! ;o)

I did manage to get my winnings out of them, after a bit of a battle with their managers once I eventually got hold of their contact details!

Good luck.

However, there is also another scenario whereby if you had lost your deposits, would you have tried your luck in getting deposits back citing you were SE from another EM site? Unfortunately it is always a nasty area for casino operators and punters.

Typical Cassava BULL SHIT!
 

martydavies

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
A few pointers:

- The UKGC does not handle player complaints.
- The MGA will reject it because you are in the UK
- eCOGRA only if Jetbull has them as their designated ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution)
- I cannot see the UK version of the Jetbull site but in their T&C's they have to publish their ADR, hence you might want to check who it is.
- you can also submit your complaint here at CM via the PAB service. Jetbull has an active rep and CM is a certified arbitrator. If you decide to go this route then read the FAQ's and submit your complaint here: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/


I see, I believe Jetbull is using eCOGRA, so it might be worth a try, but I will wait for a response back from EM first and then I think I will try a PAB here at CM and hopefully have a bit of luck, obviously I am going to be biased but I believe I have a strong case
 

martydavies

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
Surely if the SE had lapsed, then strictly speaking there is no current SE in place and your withdrawal should be honoured?

I had a similar issue with Cassava. I tried Wink Bingo, didn't like bingo so closed the account via SE a few years back. I then opened a casino site at another Cassava branch well beyond the SE period at Wink Bingo. I tried making a withdrawal - lo and behold my account was closed and withdrawal forfeited with them saying I had SE at another of their sites. I argued that the SE had lapsed and as I didn't want to play bingo, had no need to reopen that account.

They then accused me of having an ongoing gambling issue and as such, they have a requirement to extend the SE period indefinitely, therefore giving them grounds to forfeit my winnings as the SE was now current!! Cheeky little devils! ;o)

I did manage to get my winnings out of them, after a bit of a battle with their managers once I eventually got hold of their contact details!

Good luck.

However, there is also another scenario whereby if you had lost your deposits, would you have tried your luck in getting deposits back citing you were SE from another EM site? Unfortunately it is always a nasty area for casino operators and punters.

Thanks Richy, I think I may have to do exactly the same thing and keep fighting this and hopefully I will get some good news
 

Harry_BKK

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Location
Balcony
I see, I believe Jetbull is using eCOGRA, so it might be worth a try, but I will wait for a response back from EM first and then I think I will try a PAB here at CM and hopefully have a bit of luck, obviously I am going to be biased but I believe I have a strong case

OK, one thing though if you are considering a PAB, one of the main requests is that you do not further discuss your case in the forum as that could jeopardize your PAB.

It all hangs on when exactly you SE'd, when it expired and if it was indeed at another EM property.
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
OK, one thing though if you are considering a PAB, one of the main requests is that you do not further discuss your case in the forum as that could jeopardize your PAB.

It all hangs on when exactly you SE'd, when it expired and if it was indeed at another EM property.

Thanks once again, I will not comment any further and hope to have a positive outcome, I appreciate all of your replies
 

Mouche12

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Good luck with the PAB! What worries me here is that the OP was able to withdraw a smaller amount just fine, but as his winnings now exceeded 3K it suddenly turns out that he has SEd and no name of the casino in question is given??
 

dunover

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ECOGRA or PAB.

If this fails County Court Summons, as their terms were incomplete and thus unfair, as a major condition pertaining to your use of the service, i.e. sister sites list was NOT in the terms. Even if it were, your SE had expired so their argument is void.

Don't accept deposits back only. If your story is 100%, you are entitled to your winnings.

Nice to see the EM SE scam is still alive and well.

I have just received a reply to an official UKGC complaint about this and other matters, and they have requested additional information from me i.e. proof the terms of EM sites are incomplete and are in breach of basic UK consumer law.
 

Harry_BKK

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Location
Balcony
Good luck with the PAB! What worries me here is that the OP was able to withdraw a smaller amount just fine, but as his winnings now exceeded 3K it suddenly turns out that he has SEd and no name of the casino in question is given??

Reason is the GBP/EUR/$ 2,300 threshold before KYC is mandatory. Up to that moment nobody really double checks registration details.

Jetbull support probably can't see at which casino exactly the SE was done as EM keeps all the KYC records. He should get those details though in the email from the EM SE team.
 

Harry_BKK

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Thanks once again, I will not comment any further and hope to have a positive outcome, I appreciate all of your replies

Good luck Marty.

You can post short updates but no details, like e.g. 'email from EM received but will submit PAB'. Once your PAB is accepted we will see a PAB logo below your username.

In my view this case will have 2 options:

- you were SE'd --> you will receive your deposits back
- your SE expired prior to the win --> you will receive your winnings

Either way, just note please that EM are not the quickest with email answers, takes them usually days.

Here is the list of casinos operating under the EM UK license:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Location
UK
Good luck Marty.

You can post short updates but no details, like e.g. 'email from EM received but will submit PAB'. Once your PAB is accepted we will see a PAB logo below your username.

In my view this case will have 2 options:

- you were SE'd --> you will receive your deposits back
- your SE expired prior to the win --> you will receive your winnings

Either way, just note please that EM are not the quickest with email answers, takes them usually days.

Here is the list of casinos operating under the EM UK license:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Thanks Harry, I will go by your instructions if I have to submit a PAB, however, I am hoping this matter will be resolved amicably between myself and EM, if not I will indeed a submit a PAB and let everybody know the outcome once this matter has been resolved.
 

martydavies

Newbie member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Location
UK
ECOGRA or PAB.

If this fails County Court Summons, as their terms were incomplete and thus unfair, as a major condition pertaining to your use of the service, i.e. sister sites list was NOT in the terms. Even if it were, your SE had expired so their argument is void.

Don't accept deposits back only. If your story is 100%, you are entitled to your winnings.

Nice to see the EM SE scam is still alive and well.

I have just received a reply to an official UKGC complaint about this and other matters, and they have requested additional information from me i.e. proof the terms of EM sites are incomplete and are in breach of basic UK consumer law.


Thanks for the information, interesting you have been liaising with UKGC, can I ask, did you submit a complaint direct to the UKGC?
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Location
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EM holds a UK license and the UKGC regulation is very clear on this:

- if you were SE'd at a sister site then only deposits have to returned. All bets/winnings have to be voided.
- if your SE expired prior to the win then they have to pay.



Yes, all casinos with a UK license have to abide by the same UKGC regulations.


Sorry Harry, one last question, I have been looking over the UKGC Regulations, do you know where I would find this listed in the regulations about:

- if you were SE'd at a sister site then only deposits have to returned. All bets/winnings have to be voided.
- if your SE expired prior to the win then they have to pay.
 

Harry_BKK

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Sorry Harry, one last question, I have been looking over the UKGC Regulations, do you know where I would find this listed in the regulations about:

- if you were SE'd at a sister site then only deposits have to returned. All bets/winnings have to be voided.
- if your SE expired prior to the win then they have to pay.

The SE issue is in one of their updated LCCP chapters. Would need to do some digging to find the exact chapters again.

EDIT: Got to go out for a while so it might take some time, but will look for it when i am back online. :)
 

martydavies

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Thank you :) I currently have my reading glasses on going through the regulations but I am failing to find it :rolleyes:
 

Harry_BKK

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Thank you :) I currently have my reading glasses on going through the regulations but I am failing to find it :rolleyes:

Out already waiting in the queue at the bank. :rolleyes:

They have countless consultations and updates to their code. Maybe searching here on CM will be easier as it was dicussed in a few threads. Search for Self-exclusion, Everymatrix or maybe Guts, different group but there was a huge discussion about SE just a few months ago.
 

martydavies

Newbie member
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Location
UK
Hey guys,

Just wanted to provide an update, EM team have just replied to me changing their originally story, here is the reply I got:

Please be advised than upon our attempt to remove your self-exclusion we have noticed that your self-exclusion is still active until 04/08/2019. Unfortunately, you were sent the wrong email template below which is used once the self-exclusion has ended. We have also confirmed this with CasinoLuck which has sent us a screenshot of your request to exclude for the longest period available. The email sent to CasinoLuck is dated August 4th 2014.

We have refunded you 1,575.10 GBP to your card which will arrive in a few days. This amount and the withdrawal of 224.90 GBP made on 20/08/2016 should cover all deposits made on Jetbull during the self-exclusion period. No winnings will be paid out as per T&C.

We appreciate your understanding in the matter.


Yours Sincerely,
Everymatrix self-exclusion team


I am still angry at the fact that they can get away with letting players register and deposit freely but as soon as you try and claim a withdrawal over 2300EUR they then decide oh no sorry you are only getting your deposits back and the SE is activated and detected!

It's an absolute joke, as many others have said, in this day and age it is not hard to stop a player registering and playing at a sister site if you are already SE! I hope this post helps other memebers of CM

Thanks again to everyone that has posted on my thread, your help and guidance was greatly appreciated
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
Hey guys,

Just wanted to provide an update, EM team have just replied to me changing their originally story, here is the reply I got:

Please be advised than upon our attempt to remove your self-exclusion we have noticed that your self-exclusion is still active until 04/08/2019. Unfortunately, you were sent the wrong email template below which is used once the self-exclusion has ended. We have also confirmed this with CasinoLuck which has sent us a screenshot of your request to exclude for the longest period available. The email sent to CasinoLuck is dated August 4th 2014.

We have refunded you 1,575.10 GBP to your card which will arrive in a few days. This amount and the withdrawal of 224.90 GBP made on 20/08/2016 should cover all deposits made on Jetbull during the self-exclusion period. No winnings will be paid out as per T&C.

We appreciate your understanding in the matter.


Yours Sincerely,
Everymatrix self-exclusion team


I am still angry at the fact that they can get away with letting players register and deposit freely but as soon as you try and claim a withdrawal over 2300EUR they then decide oh no sorry you are only getting your deposits back and the SE is activated and detected!

It's an absolute joke, as many others have said, in this day and age it is not hard to stop a player registering and playing at a sister site if you are already SE! I hope this post helps other memebers of CM

Thanks again to everyone that has posted on my thread, your help and guidance was greatly appreciated

Feel free to grab a seat in the exclusive pit of Everymatrix misery, where many others have suffered similar or worse fates.

This kind of casino practice has no place in 2016 and baffles me how they continue to get away with it! :mad:
 
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