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Another capital casino thread (this is hilarious)

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by Matekh, Aug 29, 2007.

    Aug 29, 2007
  1. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Hello

    I really wish I would have read the threads about capital casino before signing up there and claiming a bonus... This is by far the worst I have witnessed in the casino business.

    To make a long story short, I signed up, deposited, and claimed their 200% welcome bonus. I then began to play some games. I played Baccarat, Blackjack, French roulette and Casino war.

    Before I knew it the wagering had been met and the entire balance was cashable (I only played with 5 bets and more so it went really quickly).

    I then cashed out the entire balance (450). The cashout however was returned to my account within 2 days or so. I then of course contacted the live chat.

    Here are their answers:

    "Cyril : Mats I have reviewed your account and can see taht you have not as yet met the required wagering requirements in order to cash out on the bonus credited"


    Of course I had, I had no bonus balance!

    "Cyril : There are certain guilines for betting on bonuses and should a player player not bet in the required manner this is not cashable".


    Oh sh*t...

    "Cyril: The easiest way to meet the wagering requirements are by wagering games that count 100% towards your wagering requirement such as Slots and american roulette."

    I am sure it is...

    "Cyril : I have reviewed your account and can see that you played French roulette and used the exact same patern of play and made the exact same bets and used the same amounts and same collours consecutively and then altering the colour and continuing the same patern"

    Yes I played French roulette but It is allowed for wagering AND I wagered on other games too! I even changed the color of which I placed my bets in mid game!

    When I asked what I had to in order to cash out he told me:

    "Cyril : The bonus is automatically removed from the account once a withdrawal is made what I can suggest is that you wager on a dofferent game that you will not be able to play and a patern be detected, I would say wager a little more and make a second attempt at a wiothdrawal, I cannot give you a fixed amount as you even be able to cashin after wagering the bonus amount on a different game I would suggest games like slots which will avaoid any suspician and contributes more towards wagering at the same time."

    Oh yeah, slots! It's a great way of giving away money to the casino...

    I then asked how is playing on slots any different than playing on roulette (this is the best part).

    "Cyril : Slots count 100% and bets are entirely 50 /50 and no paterns can be formed even if you bet on the same amount continously. "

    OMG, 50/50?! I couldn't believe my eyes :eek2:

    But then he drops the bomb:

    "Cyril : Whether you win on slots and double the credits in your account it will not be considered to be against the bonus policy 50/50 chance of winning or losing no guarantees can be made on slots you have a 50% chance of winnng or losing but this is just a suggestion you are welcome to play on other games as well."

    I didn't know what to say so I ended the chat session...

    I just wanted you to read this, I found it very amusing...

    Anyway, the funds are in my account and have not been confiscated. But I can't cash out and wagering towards a bonus I don't even have seems a little weird.

    Any suggestions?

    And a little side note, his spelling actually was that bad, I haven't made any alterations to his comments!
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Aug 29, 2007
  3. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    you definitely did the "big bets then grind" strategy. casinos hate this, but given the gigantic wagering when one plays lower-edge games, how can you be in the wrong? you managed to make wagering, the money should be yours. patterns of play happen all the time. are all flatbettors in roulette and bj abusing the game? course not. they might also be taking offence because you used "autoplay" to grind out a bonus at low-ish bets, but again, the risky big bets off the start, and the exhaustive amounts of wagering make it difficult enough to win without arbitrarily voiding play based on a standard pattern of play that non-bonus players can and do also use. but if they're a rogue or quasi-rogue, you're beat. good luck anyway.

    matekh, what are you, a klingon? :thumbsup:
     
  4. Aug 29, 2007
  5. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes of course I doubled up my balance on the first bet, I always do this because otherwise it's impossible to complete wagering with any clearplay bonus. It also makes things so much more interesting since you have twice the roll now and can cause alot more damage to the casino :cool:

    However I wouldn't call my wagering "grinding" since I played 10 hands on blackjack, 5 spins on red and then switching over to 5 spins on black. If I would have flatbetted 1 on red or black then I could have understood the casinos decision a bit more (however I still belive that a player should be payed if doing that and then locked out).

    Anyway, I played some 600 spins on a slot with a low sized jackpot and then som more baccarat. I hope that they will aprove my withdrawal now!
     
  6. Aug 30, 2007
  7. dynamitewoman

    dynamitewoman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    roswell,n.m
    withdrawal..an emotional issue! lol

    More than big bet or grinding ..or any deviation of their considered "admin. authorized "form of losing ones money, the thing casinos really HATE,,is PAYING OUT!
    I suggest if you continue playing in a casino of this caliber to bring a roll of toilet paper and some chap stick with you, cuz you will be wipin and kissin a lot of butt to get your winnings in your pocket.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Aug 30, 2007
  9. GGW Laurie

    GGW Laurie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    In the Beautiful South !!
    :lolup::lolup: you nailed that one right on the head:D lmao
     
  10. Aug 30, 2007
  11. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    I doubt that would do any good, even If I would forfeit all my winnings and just claim my deposit back they still would give me trouble! This casino is not happy until I've lost everything.
     
  12. Aug 30, 2007
  13. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Now they have confiscated all my winnings (over 1000) on both capital casino AND vegas palms, despite the fact that I played slots without even having a bonus balance!

    On vegas palms I didn't play much french roulette to complete the wagering (mostly casino war I think) and they still tell me:

    "You met the play through requirement, with close to zero risk of your initial deposit by only playing red on French Roulette."

    How can 5 bets on casino war, a high house edge game be "zero risk" ?!

    I even played slot machines for christ sake...

    These casinos won't let you win...
     
  14. Aug 30, 2007
  15. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Vegas Palms is ecogra approved, so you can try filing a complaint at You must register/login in order to see the link. .
     
  16. Aug 30, 2007
  17. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Already done.

    I told the fortune lounge floor manager (I was contaced directly by him) that I would go to ecogra.

    But they obviously don't care.
     
  18. Aug 31, 2007
  19. BBKPoker

    BBKPoker halfway to busto PABrogue3

    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Edinburgh, Seattle, Vancouver BC, Auckland
    Capital Casino isn't an eCogra casino.
     
  20. Aug 31, 2007
  21. pangloss

    pangloss Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Finance
    Location:
    Australia

    In my view eCogra are not the solution - they are most definitely the problem. Consider the following precedent delivered by eCogra on complaint from a similarly affected player (as posted recently at WOL).

    Dear R,

    We have investigated your query with the casino and have made the following findings;

    You purchased 60 and redeemed the sign up offer of 90 on the 6th of July 2007.
    On the 11th of July you started wagering and placed 3 wagers on the game of Roulette. The 3 bets amounted to 150 (the deposit and bonus combined)
    You won 300 on each of your 3 wagers
    You then proceeded to play 2576 bets of 2 on the game of Casino War.

    You were required to meet the following play through requirement:

    90 bonus * 30 play through requirement = 2700
    Since you played Roulette to the value of 450, the play through contribution from this game only counts 180 (40% of 450) and
    Your play on Casino War, contributed 2576 (50% of 5152).

    However, the manner in which you met your play through requirements on Casino War is covered in the term:

    Before any withdrawals are processed, your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns e.g . playing of equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting, which all shall be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes.

    Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets using your entire or the majority of your account balance, where the majority of that balance is made up of bonus balance. The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute "irregular play" for bonus play-through requirement purposes from time-to-time and to withhold any cash-ins where irregular play has occurred to meet bonus play-through requirements.

    Equal betting is considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes, according to the published T&C's at the time of accepting their bonus offer. The fact that you proceeded to place 2576 individual bets of 2 each on casino war in order to meet the play-through requirements in a manner that reduces the margin of the game close to zero, in our opinion is equal betting. I regret that we support the casino's decision to withhold your winnings and return your deposit to you.

    Regards,

    Tex Rees


    Apparently (if you believe eCogra) making small bets on WAR will render the game a close to zero proposition instead of -EV 2.17% as prescribed by WOO and other mathematical luminaries. Game return amendments are under hurried review at WOO in the light of this particular piece of eCogra erudition.

    Of course the term irregular gaming is a recent creation that seeks to substitute and escape from the historically discredited vernacular of bonus abuse. Irregular Gaming also seeks to escape definition and any sort of prescription other than The Casino reserves the right to decide in its sole discretion which activities constitute irregular play.

    Methinks such singular and unfettered discretion will be exercised and meted out by the size of your cash-out rather than by any sense of what may constitute fair, honest and reasonable commercial practice.

    This e Cogra ruling provides the ideal precedent on which member Casinos can rely to confiscate otherwise perfectly legitimate winnings under the discretionary haze of irregular play. Dont bet too small because it reduces the house margin to all but zero which eCogra deems irregular play. And dont bet too big either cos under irregular play eCogra got you covered either way. Otherwise feel free to spend the bonus money in any way that takes your fancy (btw have you seen our new Slot Games?).

    Small wonder that MG Casino groups such as 32RED and Ladbrokes continue to refuse to have any truck with eCogra. Long and hard won gilt edge reputations are not about to be risked or frittered away on the eCogra wheel of fortune.

    From a Players perspective one must consider the security of depositing funds with any Casino operating under the eCogra seal (and the likes of Capitol Casino managed by the rogued Fortune Lounge). Whatever winning strategy you may chance upon the added risk of offending against what constitutes irregular play looms large upon every cash-out. And if there is a dispute ..eCogra are not the solution - they are the problem.


     
    7 people like this.
  22. Aug 31, 2007
  23. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Aww there goes 1000 of winnings (or 500 at least, since capital isn't a member).... I thought players hade been able to recover their money trough ecogra, I guess I was wrong.

    And fortune lounge isn't rouged, then I of course would never have played there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2007
    1 person likes this.
  24. Aug 31, 2007
  25. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I don't have high hopes for a successful outcome either, but filing a complaint does not cost anything, and even if it is unsuccessful, at least it will be recorded in the statistics.
     
  26. Aug 31, 2007
  27. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Pardon my ignorance... but how is it possible to place an equal bet on Casino War, since there is only one betting spot?

    Low-risk betting, I agree. Equal betting, I do not unless I misunderstood the definition of equal betting. What was done here was flat betting...
     
  28. Aug 31, 2007
  29. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Finaly some good news!


    "Hi Mats

    Codie here from the Fortune Lounge.

    Mats your matter has been referred to the Head of Operations due to the nature of the query.

    He has reviewed the matter and decided to process your full withdrawal amount on both the Capital and Vegas Palms Casinos. He has however agreed that the betting pattern you displayed is not one of a player who has any intention to game with the casino in future as we have seen the same happen with all other players who abused our bonuses.

    It is for this reason that your casino accounts will remain locked and that any further accounts registered with the Fortune Lounge will be locked on registration.


    Kind Regards

    Codie

    Floor Manager"



    Looks like they are paying up!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2007
  30. Sep 1, 2007
  31. Matekh

    Matekh Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    They have paid me now! :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Sep 2, 2007
  33. cyprean

    cyprean Banned User PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Sun/Moon
    Seems like they are back to their old antics. See the old Vegas Palms threads and Rogue Pit for more info.

    Basically if the player played French Roulette and/or Baccarat and won with the bonus money, they had their winnings removed and account locked. Vegas Palms / Fortune Lounge claimed that they abused their bonuses. Players had to go to eCogra to get their monies back.

    Not a very good business practice.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Sep 2, 2007
  35. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Of course they changed their terms after that debacle to include the 'hedge betting' or 'even' money etc. But from what we know of this player's plight, they did the right thing in reversing the decision... but he was borderline.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Sep 2, 2007
  37. cyprean

    cyprean Banned User PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Sun/Moon
    I see your point. In any case we can clearly see that the support staff is pretty clueless. I believe it is a better practice to investigate first and then ban, rather than to ban-on-sight and investigate later IF eCogra intervenes. :what:

    But I guess the latter one makes more $$$ to Fortune Lounge.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Sep 2, 2007
  39. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Yip, because I would bet a majority of players are clueless as to whether there is anything they can do if they feel 'screwed'.

    We can only hope that with the bonus situations that major groups and casinos don't go to the 'delay, deny, defend' practice that auto insurance companies have You must register/login in order to see the link. with link to original story. That would be another form of rogue behavior, IMO, but it seems inevitable in the longrun.
     

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