Angelciti (RTG) steal thousands of dollars of players' winnings.

[caruso]

A couple of weeks ago, I received the following Email from Angelciti. I think all their previous customers received it.

"Dear XXXX,

Bonus of 200% up to $1,000!

Yes, you read that correctly - we are offering a 200% bonus for our customers to enjoy some of today's most exciting online entertainment. At the AngelCiti family of casinos you can play everything from Blackjack to Bingo, from Caribbean Stud to ****s, from Roulette to Video Poker and still get this amazing 200% offer. Just put in coupon code PMF3K and the 200% bonus will automatically be deposited into your account.

AngelCiti is a name you can trust and is the home of the 24-hour payout. You know that with AngelCiti you are provided with the best service and professionalism in the industry and we are powered by AngelCiti Entertainment a publicly traded company (Ticker Symbol: AGLC) - we answer to a higher authority so you get the integrity you deserve. So come in and have fun with your favorite online casinos. We're here to make you feel at home.

So come in and have fun with your favorite online casinos. We're here to make you feel at home.

*You are receiving this e-mail because you have signed on to play at an AngelCiti family casino. If you do not wish to get any further e-mails regarding AngelCiti promotions please e-mail support@AngelCiticasino.com and your name will be removed from future mailings. **The 200% bonus offer is subject to a ten times playthrough requirement and 80% of the bonus amount is reimbursed to the casino upon payout. Normal rules and regulations apply - see website for details. Thanks!"

It was also posted in "Hot Promos" at WOL:-

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and there was some discussion at WOL here:-

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NB: - "you can play everything from Blackjack".

Basically, this is a sticky ("play money") bonus, of which 20% cashable.

So I deposited $500, received the $1000 semi-sticky, and went to play some high stakes Pontoon (Blackjack variant). A few minutes and some $500 hands later, I was sitting on a balance of several thousand dollars. I cashed out.

A few days later, they removed the $800 "non-cashable" part of the sticky. So far so good.

A subsequent Email that I learned about had the following addition:- "Plays in Black Jack, ****s, War, Roulette and Baccarat does not count towards the play through requirements."

No problem, I thought - I played within about six hours of receiving the original Email offer, and that original Email offer SPECIFICALLY allowed me to play Blackjack. And, of course, this is a trustworthy group.

But a few alarm bells DID start to go off in my head, and the expression "retroactive T & C application" came to mind.

A few days later, they returned my deposit and stole my winnings. It was listed in the cashier as "Manager withdrawal approved". Several thousand dollars.

So I phoned them (they don't answer Emails). I was told my winnings were confiscated because I played Blackjack (Pontoon). I said, "Hang on! The Email I received INVITED me to play ANY GAME I CHOSE, including BLACKJACK". The (helpful) CSR said, "OK, forward it to us, I'll forward it to the manager, and he'll get back to you".

He didn't.

They retroactively applied the new terms and conditions, and voided my winnings. I broke no rules, and they stole my money.

I should add that I'm not the only Aggrieved Party in all this. Of the couple of friends of mine whose cases I know specifically about, the total of stolen winnings amounts to a substantial sum WELL in excess of my own several thousand dollars.

And of course, of all the others who lost their $500 deposit playing Blackjack, do you think the casino voided their play and returned their deposits?

This is a casino scam which is becoming increasingly common amongst the RTGs. If you lose, they keep your deposit; if you win, they return it. A zero-risk, absolute win-win situation for the casino.

The surprising thing in this is really only that this was one of the HIGHEST REGARDED RTGS - Angelciti / Welcome To Our Casino. I deposited $500 with them with absolutely no qualms whatsoever; would I deposit $500 with Virtual / Prism? Like hell! Palace Of Chance? Oh, purleeease!! Hampton? Gimme a break!

I trusted this casino. What an error of judgement.

I note that, since this IS (was) one of the higher-regarded RTGs, many reputable webmasters (and WOL members) are affiliated. I reckon if any of them can assist the affected players, it'd be appreciated. Many, many thousands of dollars are involved in this scam.

Angelciti / WelcomeToOurCasino should now be considered as rogue operators. They simply don't have the money to honour their clients' wagers. Lose, and they'll keep your money; win, and they'll return your deposit.

Beware.

 

[amandajm]

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Quote Kavaman<,<, Funny thing. The funny thing is i did this offer on the first day it came out. Played normal blackjack, and got paid within 24 hours. But i think its because i did it with the minimum. Depositted 20$ . Got it up to 150$ and cashed out with a 100$ profit. <,END

 

[Casinomeister]

This is some pretty serious stuff. I'll be contacting these guys to see what's up.

Recently there was a problem with Crown Vegas and their sign up promo (another thread here: ) They returned the deposits of the winners whose play was voided as well as the losers. So there is hope for RTG casinos. But from what I see here, this doesn't look good for Angelciti.

(Message edited by admin on March 18, 2003)

 

[caruso]

Thanks Bryan. I wasn't originally going to bother you with a "bitch pitched" since, as you don't seem to advertise for them, I assumed you had limited mediation capacity; I've now done the deed.

If you check out the WOL thread you'll see that really there is no case for the casino here, because Blackjack players WERE paid - as long as they didn't win too much.

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Caruso,

I'll take "bitches" from anyone for anybody
RTG casinos are my biggest "bitch" since they have quite a number of loose cannons on deck so to speak. And just because someone doesn't advertise for someone doesn't mean there aren't any doors open. RTG knows how vocal I can be and that I have a higher than average profile. If you haven't read my newsletter from March 6th, you should since some of this is addressed:
https://www.casinomeister.com/static/newsletter/2003/6march2003.html

I am waiting for a response from RTG and Angelciti on this one.

And by the way, there is a reason why I do not promote any RTG casinos here (sans one - Crown Vegas). It is because of the half-assed way in which this software provider has conducted itself in the past concerning these sort of situations. It looks like they are up to another public test.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've been in touch with the CEO and he is checking into this. I hope to have an answer soon.

 

[caruso]

Just a note to the world at large that I discovered I'd kept copies of the original T & C - taken from the Angelciti site - which did NOT exclude BJ games, only the usual craps, bacc etc, which I saved the day AFTER I, personally, played.

The final piece of an already complete jigsaw puzzle.

All passed on to Bryan.

 

[linda7]

Hi Bryan, I need your help with Crown Vegas. I wrote to you separately. However, just to recap,
I made a deposit of $180 thru OnDemandFunds, a funding option of Crown. ODF charged me $189.20 for this deposit. Crown put this deposit thru 5 times, not once, causing me to hit my overdraft and incur a $30 overdraft fee. This was on March 17th. On March 20th, I made a tiny $50 deposit thru the cashier at Crown itself, and of course, this was also put thru 5 times. I spoke to Steve Bennet yesterday, March 21st. He swore to me all would be taken care of within 3 hours and he would email me. Well, not only did he not email me...But, when I called back I was told he was gone for the weekend and totally unreachable.

Nice casino huh?

Linda7

 

[mrracetrack]

RTG casinos totally suck. They are SCUM.

 

[caruso]

Linda, what has Crown Vegas got to do with my Angelciti complaint?

Couldn't you have found a relevant thread, or posted a new one?

 

[babysister]

Caruso, what's your beef with Linda. She hade a revelant point because Bryan mention having similar situations with Crown Vegas. Everyone is having problems, and yours combined with hers just proves that these casinos are trouble. "Can' We All Just Get Alone" ?

 

[linda7]

Caruso, I posted here becuase Crown is an RTG casino...of which I was unaware. I did start my own thread regarding Crown Vegas. I thought perhaps my post here would offer some strength to the original post regarding Angelciti, an RTG casino. Thank you Babysister for your kind words and for understanding my reason for posting here.

Babysister, I have read your posts regarding Starluck, and I am going to give them a try. I would like to let them know that you referred me.
If this is okay with you, kindly email me and we can work out the details. My Email addy is
Desiderata9116@aol.com.

Linda7

 

[caruso]

Bryan, any word beyond that which has already found its way to the forums ("...However, given the confusion, we will be looking into the number of people impacted and when they played with respect to when the e-mail revision was implemented in order to try and reach a fair resolution for all involved.")?

Has he suggested a time scale?

 

[Casinomeister]

Nope, nothing yet.....

still waiting - ho hum

 

[caruso]

Bryan, I think a nomination for your "Rogue Casino" section is not out of place for the Angelciti group, considering the reply Jetset has received:-

"Dear Brian:

I apologize for the delay but the past week has been extremely hectic. We have treated this matter very seriously and I have reviewed it with members of our senior management team. No company is happy about dealing with things that could have been represented more clearly that unfrotunately tarnish an otherwise reputable image. In this instance though, we have looked to policies that other companies have undertaken in similar instances. For example, Amazon and Hotels.com recently had items materially mispriced on their websites and did not honor those prices for orders made, pointing to the terms of conditions on their website. Our instance is extremely similar and we feel it is appropriate to take the same stance. We have dealt stringently with those internally who were responsible for e-mailing the confusing language which is contradictory to the language in our terms and conditions.

We realize that decision will not be a popular one but feel it is the correct decision in this instance."

Translation: "The players did NOTHING wrong; we are, nonetheless, invoking our right, clearly stated on our web site, to steal their winnings."

I need hardly point out the TERRIBLY dangerous precedent this sets for the industry at large if this criminal behaviour is accepted without consequence.

Remember, the casino accepts that the players did NOTHING wrong, but are nonetheless stealing their winnings - a decision they feel is "correct".

"Yes, we are crooks".

 

[Casinomeister]

I received the exact same email. In fact, they send the identical emails to everyone who is involved in this. Doesn't say much for their negotiation skills.

I was disappointed with their response since I feel it is a false analogy. Placing bets at an online casino is hardly comparable with buying a DVD at Amazon.com.

If they are going to void winnings, I would expect all players deposits to be returned to include those who lost.

 

[Casinomeister]

They now been placed in our rogue section for an unrelated case, but a serious one at that. They have refused to pay a player $28,000 in winnings. This is an old complaint, but it has been recently revisited with bad results. The casino feels that she isn't entitled to her winnings because "they can't believe" she could have had 3 Royal Flushes within +7000 hands.

RTG has done nothing.
https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[colincaster]

Amazing. Well, I guess they will be refunding money from now on to everyone who "can't believe" they lost 10 hands of blackjack in a row, or whatever.

CC

 

[jpm]

Well this week I hit 2 royals on Aces & Faces at Club Dice (playtech) for $1000 each and they were within a couple of hundred (or LESS) hands of each other. In fact, the 2nd one was on my 4th hand after switching back to A&F from Jacks or Better which wasn't hitting.

And, no they haven't banned me (yet! knock wood lol)

 

[Casinomeister]

I have a feeling that this player will be paid within the next few days.

 

[jetset]

Good news for the player that he/she might at last be paid after months of stress and anxiety, but ask yourselves this:

Is it worth playing at a casino that has to be browbeaten and exposed to pay what it very well knows it owes to a customer?

George Gutierrez and his Angelciti thieves have now been caught out in two flagrant attempts to wriggle out of their obligations to clients who won fair and square.

The company is reputed to be struggling for money.

If they have tried to screw players twice, can you trust them not to do it again at some future opportunity?

 

[caruso]

This only concerns the 28K girl, of course.

Assuming they pay her, they're still screwing the rest of us out of a large five-figure sum.

 

[Casinomeister]

I would re-emphasize Jetset's statements. It seems that this casino or casino group needs to be convinced via bad press to do the right thing when it should be done on a normal basis.

This is one of the last emails I received from George:

[color=0000ff]While it is of no particular corporate gain
since you have already printed what you will on the matter, it has been
determined that the fair thing to do is to also reimubrse players who lost
under the promotion playing blackjack, since they were at an unfair
disadvantage in their assumption.
[/color]
It's not very specific, and I couldn't really give a shit since they have proven themselves as "roguish" over the past several months. I hope they get shut down.

 

[caruso]

Their sister sports book operation apparently has the same high moral standards of the casino:

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[Casinomeister]

Angelciti is now claiming that RTG's software is rigged.

Now seriously, imagine a licensee of MG, Boss, Crypto, or Playtech making this sort of claim. What do you think the software provider would do. RTG on the other hand has no balls. They are flaccid.

And if Angelciti thinks there is something wrong with the software, why haven't they switched software providers? Don't forget this happened last summer.

I would suggest that anyone that is having a problem with Angelciti take legal action. Don't forget they are an American publicly traded company. Their stockholders should be made aware of these scams as well.