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An issue with player - advice needed

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by SlotMonster, May 12, 2011.

    May 12, 2011
  1. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister

    Hello, fellow members!

    Maybe it sounds a bit strange, but I need your advice as Casino Rep.

    We are now dealing with the player who have deposited £400 into BigCasino, received £150 bonus, but asked it to be removed. We did remove the bonus, and sent him an email stating that when he may want to withdraw the funds - a message about uncleared WR will appear, but player should just send us email and we will process his withdrawal manually.

    1. Some time after that we got another email from him, where he said that he played our Roulette and managed to build his bankroll to £800, and then decided to submit a withdrawal. As we stated in our email, he saw a message about uncleared WR, went back to his play thinking that he still has WR to clear and eventually lost all his money (£800). He also demanded that it's a "clear breach of codes set by Isle of Man" and promised not to take any legal actions if £800 will be transfered back to his account.

    2. In our reply to him we reminded him about our previous email, where we warned him about this message, and about he should have sent us email with withdrawal request. Moreover, as our good will we credited his account with £200 (NO WR!), which he also lost. We also offered a huge deposit bonus on his next deposit.

    3. Then he replied back and insisted he didn't receive our email with warning and lost his money thinking he still had WR to clear. He also said that he "have arranged a meeting with his solicitor for next week".

    4. After numerous emails back and forth he changed his mind, and sent us email when he said that

    So, what we have now: the player, who lost all his monies in our casino and who demands he didn't get our email and wants his deposit to be refunded. The case isn't closed, so I would like not to be a Casino Rep who will just say: "Our decision is final, and that's all".

    Any opinions are welcome. If you need any additional information - please feel free to ask.

    3 people like this.
  2. May 12, 2011
  3. lnspin

    lnspin Senior Member webmeister

    Webmaster - Mygamblinglife.com
    Put the $400 in his account, and leave it up to him if he wants to withdraw it or play it. Chances are high he will probably lose it anyway.

    But before doing this send him an email stating this is what you are going to do, and have him confirm it first.

    Sort of.

    Dear ""

    We have credited your $400 back to your account, please go and withdraw it at your convience.

    Thank you.
    2 people like this.
  4. May 13, 2011
  5. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming

    I do nothing productive
    Hell on Earth
    Give him the 400 and show him the door...
    Sounds like the guy has a problem...
    2 people like this.
  6. May 13, 2011
  7. H1_Roller

    H1_Roller Non-Gambler

    Hmmm... I get the feeling he knew fine rightly that all he had to do was email the withdrawal request (he was explained this), but decided to chance his arm. He lost and is now, again, chancing his arm. I believe he is being opportunistic.

    The fact he accepted the £200 with no WR tells it's own story. Had he been genuinely mislead for whatever reason, he would have refused that offer and insisted on the £800 being returned to his account immediately. Plus, why would he spend the £800 and THEN kick up a stink?
    2 people like this.
  8. May 13, 2011
  9. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Seems like he is angleshooting a bit to me, but it could be that the email got stuck in his spam filter or something. I think the wisest business descision on your end would be to put the 400 back into his account. Chances are that he would play some more and this way you may have gotten yourself a loyal customer instead of him becomming angry and finding another casino to play at.

    I would also suggest that you implement a better system for removing bonuses in the future, as it would be a pain in the ass for every player who asks for their bonus to be removed to have to get that message, send emails etc. when they are about to withdraw. The whole thing can be seen on as a dodgy tactic from the casino to get the player to not withdraw and play on.
    2 people like this.
  10. May 13, 2011
  11. Repro

    Repro Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnonaccred

    Viktar, i think you've done more than enough for this player.

    You SPECIFICALLY told him in the email that he should contact you if he wanted to withdraw. He also should have known that there COULDN'T have been a remaining WR, because he himself took action to have the bonus removed.

    I think the £200 you credited him - no WR even - was too generous. I'm afraid just BECAUSE you have been this generous he is trying to take (extra) advantage of it.

    You already offered him big depositbonusses and i should leave it at that.

    My vision on this is: "case closed". You would be crazy to credit him the £400.

    10 people like this.
  12. May 13, 2011
  13. cpdnd31

    cpdnd31 Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    where the taxes are the highest
    OK Main point that started all of this was player did not want bonus correct? Then you removed bonus correct? So why would player even think he had a wr? If that message showed up as I was trying to cash out I would have been on live chat !!!! He is taking you for a ride. I would fight tooth and nail and then get him blacklisted at every casino you could.....
    3 people like this.
  14. May 13, 2011
  15. oldtrvlagt

    oldtrvlagt Dormant account

    Self Employed Travel Agent
    My vote is "you've done enough"! I agree with Repro...and, the player knew the bonus was removed therefore NO WR. I think he is trying to play you. JMO:D
    3 people like this.
  16. May 13, 2011
  17. anniemac

    anniemac Ueber Meister MM PABnoaccred

    Texas, USA
    Here's my take.

    He had a deposit bonus. He asked for it to be removed. It was. So, he knew how much money he had in his account, ei original amount of deposit. So deposit bonus gone, WR gone. He knew there was no wagering requirement. He played, he lost, case closed.

    If I got a 'not met wagering' I too would have been on chat like white on rice.

    Nope, no refund from me.
    3 people like this.
  18. May 13, 2011
  19. sparkz

    sparkz Senior Member

    Its a weird 1.

    As I player I would love to have £400 but you must see the facts.

    They deposited and had bonus removed. Was it CLEARLY stated in the email that when they withdraw it will say "WR" not met and you will process it manually? (some casinos put thing like this in tiny writing at bottom of email).

    The player then had £800 winnings? went to cashout and got "wr not met" so gambled and lost the lot? - That relates to post 1, all about how CLEARLY it said you will process it manually.

    You then gave him £200 which he could of cashed out right away but instead he gambled and lost it.

    Firstly he emailed to ask that the bonus was removed? Thus he would know that of course you would reply to that email to say the bonus is removed (Cant be an excuse about the email not coming through since when he signed up he must of got a confirmation email and you have proof it was sent?). Which he should of checked. Even so if he hadnt then he should of checked to see what the problem was when trying to cashout the £800.

    The reality of it is the £200 given to him was a very very goodwill gesture. Too good in fact. Not many casinos would of done that.

    If I was him personally I would give myself a slap on the bum and say "not gonna be that silly again".

    As for a "legal" case in all fairness no solicitor is going to bother with the "case" for such a tiny sum to be reclaimed.
    1 person likes this.
  20. May 13, 2011
  21. kidgamer

    kidgamer Dormant account

    Los Angeles
    What are we teaching the player if his deposit is returned to him? That he deserves his deposit back for lacking any self control? That's ridiculous. Don't give him his deposit back. Don't reward bad behavior. The casino has already been more than generous to the player.

    If the casino gives into at fault players demands (extortion anyone?) and returns his full deposit aren't they only enabling or conditioning him to pull the same stunt the next time he loses?

    The guy lost his money because he got greedy. He continued to play (and lose) rather than taking a few minutes to contact cs to resolve the error he received when he tried to make an immediate withdrawal.

    Just my $0.02
    2 people like this.
  22. May 13, 2011
  23. mn001

    mn001 Experienced Member

    Just ban him. It's a clearly fraud attempt.
    2 people like this.
  24. May 13, 2011
  25. cpdnd31

    cpdnd31 Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    where the taxes are the highest
    It makes me mad. It's players like this that ruin it for all of us that truly enjoy to play....

    A bucket of tar and feathers would come in handy right now lol. There have been legit cases of people who got confused- like the one a couple of months ago when the casino put money back in and he didn't realize it- did he get money back no- you have been more then understanding- as a rep you should know being nice is one thing but sometimes you just have to say NO. You made an effort more then what I would have done. I worked in land based casinos as a supervisor and people would pull crap all the time, in the beginning I had a heart sure we can replay the hand, give him his bet back. But then I became jaded. So I understand you wanting to do everything to maintain your customer service reputation, but do you really want a customer like that. I applaud you giving the 200 you made the effort. But I would not give a penny more.
    2 people like this.
  26. May 13, 2011
  27. FreeDomme

    FreeDomme Banned User

    Way out west, way way out.
    Do whatever 32Red would do and you are golden.
  28. May 13, 2011
  29. Chron

    Chron Dormant account

    whatever comes up in priority
    East Sussex
    I agree with Inspin and Pulver

    Make sure you get the confirmation from the player that he or she has received your email. And by sending ‘two’ emails in the future (should something similar happen again) you could avoid a lot of trouble. Emails don’t always get to their destination and sending two emails (in the future) could save a lot of trouble for both sides.

    But most things can be set up automatically these days and shouldn’t need emails-and their confirmation etc... Maybe you could do a set-up on your system where a box comes up for the player to tick that he acknowledges certain conditions if he wants the bonus removed…

    2 people like this.
  30. May 13, 2011
  31. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    The player has already made 200 dollars off the casino. Show him the door. This player knows exactly what he is doing, why do you think he sent an e-mail asking for his deposits back. You and your casino owe him nothing.

    2 people like this.
  32. May 13, 2011
  33. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    a prime example of a greedy player trying to get all the favours on his side. if he was smart enough to ask you to remove the bonus and it was done promptly he should have also tried to contact support to process his withdrawal manually. an experienced player would have known the cashier would automatically decline it and he just played on hoping to win more. in case he lost, hre would shift the blame on the rejected withdrawal.obviously, he should not have played before asking support to assist in the withdrawal and getting a reply. rogue this guy
    3 people like this.
  34. May 13, 2011
  35. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster Twitch Streamer - Affiliate webmeister


    Thank you for your responses :)

    Yes, lesson learned and in the future we are going to update our system to avoid such situations. We will also update our mail system, so on any important email sent to player there will be an auto-confirmation once message is opened by this player.

    Thanks, Frank!
    I'm thinking the same, but unfortunately it wasn't me personally who credited the bonus and I stepped into this issue after it was credited. So now I'm dealing with what I have.

    It's a very good point, anniemac :thumbsup:

    Excellent post, sparkz!
    I'm sure the fact the bonus was given without WR, as free money, make player think that if he push a bit harder - he can get his deposit back. From what I see now in emails sent to him, our CEO offered him another £200 to close this case (I think player will loose it as hi did with the first £200), but reply haven't received yet. If player accept the offer - we will credit his account with £200 and forget about it.
  36. May 13, 2011
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    STILL At Leisure
    United Kingdom
    A chancer.

    Advise the player that he can ask an independent mediator (Casinomeister) to take a look at his case, and that you will honour that mediators decision. This should save you up to £800:D

    It looks like he saw the loophole in your systems, and decided that he could push for a larger win, but not risk losing it back because he could then exploit the loophole to argue for his £800.

    He very quickly threatens legal action, and seems to know a fair bit about who to contact to maximise your fears (The IOM regulators). Someone with this experience would know that the IOM regulators would ALSO require you to NOT enforce WR once a bonus has been removed, yet he did not see fit to bring up IOM rules when he found WR attached to his £800, despite the bonus having been removed.

    As to him having spoken to his solicitor - that's bollocks, it's a pressure tactic to get you to act without thinking it through. He was far too quick to escalate the matter this far for this to be a genuine grievance.

    As a new casino, and one with an IOM license, you are a target for the chancers. You may find another player comes along and tries the same thing.

    Once you close the loopholes that he used to construct this scam, you will be better placed to avoid such incidents in the future.

    If he DOES actually send you a court summons (unlikely, because by this time he will know he is "busted", and would lose), make sure you (as a company) turn up. This is another loophole in our legal system, there to protect consumers, but open to manipulation. It works because if your company does NOT submit a defence, the court will often rule on the complainant's side of the story alone, and this could result in a judgement against you by default. Rogue companies often fail to show up in court to defend the indefensible, which is why this consumer protection rule was put in place.

    If you give in to these demands, you will make yourself an even BIGGER target, and this scheme will be discussed in some of the shadier player fora (might be worth having a look yourself to see if this is already the case).
    1 person likes this.
  38. May 13, 2011
  39. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Freelance Designer
    Edmonton Canada
    I agree with most of the other posters, I think that the guy was just playing with no risk. If he won more, then he's laughing - and if he loses, he passes the buck on to the casino. However, if the bonus was removed, there shouldn't have showed any WR on cashout, email or no email. That's something that needs to be fixed before it gets taken advantage of again. And yes if I'd have seen that I'd have gone to chat also, but any fraudster will see it as an opportunity to do the same thing this guy did.

    You already gave him $200, if you give him another $200 then that's his deposit back. I think that's more than fair. And if he's got a problem with that, tell him to PAB at casinomeister. I for one would love to see how it would turn out. ;)
    1 person likes this.

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