An introduction, my story and hopefully the answer to a couple of questions

millseyboy

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
UK
Again, point taken. Maybe it's impossible to separate them but I was referring to casino games when I said I didn't enjoy.

My friends only play tournament play rather than cash game so less potential for slopes. But that may be semantics.

I'm certainly not ready for it at this stage, but perhaps in time.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
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Jan 17, 2014
Location
Canada
Thats a fair point Tirilej but its hard to establish if someone has a problem when the original post was about one drunken night.
You could also go as far to say that anyone who uses "responsible gaming" has to be an addict and has a problem as they obviously can't control themselves.
People just do stupid things sometimes and controls are all over the place to try and stop them- police checkpoints for drunk drivers,gun control etc etc. its human nature.This forum is littered with people who complain about reversing withdrawals,playing for too long etc. you can't throw them all in the "addict" pool.
In my opinion in the world today there are far too many "diseases" and once you class something as a "disease" you can disempower the individual from being able to deal with it themselves which the OP seems to be doing quite well with by themself?
The OP may be the biggest degenrate gambler ever to walk the earth and shouldn't ever go near it again or they may just be someone who fucked up a couple of times through greed/drink.One thing is for sure the only person who can decide what they are is him and he is best placed to deal with it.Anyone who would openly tell him to "go back its not an issue" would be a fool but it would be foolish to push him the other way either when you hear from someone like Deeplay who with the right controls now enjoys his little vice:)

Why are you trying to make excuses for him? Its like you are trying to persuade him thats its no big deal what he did. He is even sitting here saying hes done it both drunk and sober.

This isnt a stupid thing either. This is serious. When you blow almost $20,000 and hide it from your family. It means you have a problem. A serious one. Something "stupid" means winning $500...requesting a withdrawal..reversing it and losing it.

He needs to never ever gamble again because if he does, at some point he will lose control again.

I know he said he likes to read and thats why he is here. But in all honesty there is a part of him that is still attached to gambling. Anytime I want to read, I find 1 of the 5 trillion books on the planet. Not read a gambling forum. I personally would advise him not to even visit a gambling forum. I know that if every time it made me sick, the last place I would come is here.

That being said, he deserves a mountain of credit for being able to quit and stay away so far. And im glad alot of posters are telling him so. Because it will help him to continue building his confidence.

Gambling ruins so many peoples lives. I truly hope you continue on the path you are on.

I'm certainly not ready for it at this stage, but perhaps in time.

I strongly advise you stay away from any type of gambling. It doesnt take long to start feeling comfortable again and one things leads to another. Youve been away this long. Stay away. Find other hobbies
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
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May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
Thats a fair point Tirilej but its hard to establish if someone has a problem when the original post was about one drunken night. You could also go as far to say that anyone who uses "responsible gaming" has to be an addict and has a problem as they obviously can't control themselves.
People just do stupid things sometimes and controls are all over the place to try and stop them- police checkpoints for drunk drivers,gun control etc etc. its human nature.This forum is littered with people who complain about reversing withdrawals,playing for too long etc. you can't throw them all in the "addict" pool.
In my opinion in the world today there are far too many "diseases" and once you class something as a "disease" you can disempower the individual from being able to deal with it themselves which the OP seems to be doing quite well with by themself?
The OP may be the biggest degenrate gambler ever to walk the earth and shouldn't ever go near it again or they may just be someone who fucked up a couple of times through greed/drink.One thing is for sure the only person who can decide what they are is him and he is best placed to deal with it.Anyone who would openly tell him to "go back its not an issue" would be a fool but it would be foolish to push him the other way either when you hear from someone like Deeplay who with the right controls now enjoys his little vice:)

But it wasn't - go back and read again my friend! He also stated he'd got £2000 in the hole before that when SOBER.

So there are 2 bad incidences of missing self-control. Therefore I feel it safe to say he IS a problem gambler, and knows it hence coming here for affirmation of that fact. I wouldn't give ANY trivial or excusive slant to what he confesses to have done, as it would be dangerous to him. He went from being a net saver to a debtor (with a near 20k swing) in one bloody night! That IS problem gambling, he knows it, we know it and above all it should not be repeated; a second nightmare like that he may not have the strength and resolve to recover from again.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Why are you trying to make excuses for him? Its like you are trying to persuade him thats its no big deal what he did. He is even sitting here saying hes done it both drunk and sober.

This isnt a stupid thing either. This is serious. When you blow almost $20,000 and hide it from your family. It means you have a problem. A serious one. Something "stupid" means winning $500...requesting a withdrawal..reversing it and losing it.

He needs to never ever gamble again because if he does, at some point he will lose control again.

I know he said he likes to read and thats why he is here. But in all honesty there is a part of him that is still attached to gambling. Anytime I want to read, I find 1 of the 5 trillion books on the planet. Not read a gambling forum. I personally would advise him not to even visit a gambling forum. I know that if every time it made me sick, the last place I would come is here.

That being said, he deserves a mountain of credit for being able to quit and stay away so far. And im glad alot of posters are telling him so. Because it will help him to continue building his confidence.

Gambling ruins so many peoples lives. I truly hope you continue on the path you are on.

What are you on about??? I'm making excuses for no-one.His first post stated he'd done it drunk and i reflected that in my first reply and qualified it thereafter when he said he had done it more than once and was sober at the time.
The amount of money he blew is completely irrelevant (and thats one of the first things they will tell you at any GA meeting).His 20k might be the same as your £500, you do not know his full circumstances and he was obviously able to pay it back relatively quickly and is stating he hasn't gambled since.
I'm not saying to gamble or not gamble just giving an insight into my own experiences and hoping they may be of some help to him in whatever route he chooses.After all this is a gambling forum for the over 18's and since he hasn't made anyone aware that hes not able to handle his own affairs (quite the opposite in fact) why don't you just leave it up to him.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
But it wasn't - go back and read again my friend! He also stated he'd got £2000 in the hole before that when SOBER.

So there are 2 bad incidences of missing self-control. Therefore I feel it safe to say he IS a problem gambler, and knows it hence coming here for affirmation of that fact. I wouldn't give ANY trivial or excusive slant to what he confesses to have done, as it would be dangerous to him. He went from being a net saver to a debtor (with a near 20k swing) in one bloody night! That IS problem gambling, he knows it, we know it and above all it should not be repeated; a second nightmare like that he may not have the strength and resolve to recover from again.

I did read -he was down 2k but got it back making a nett profit if i got it correct and maybe the OP will clarify.Using the strategy he was using its not that unusual
 

millseyboy

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
UK
But it wasn't - go back and read again my friend! He also stated he'd got £2000 in the hole before that when SOBER.

So there are 2 bad incidences of missing self-control. Therefore I feel it safe to say he IS a problem gambler, and knows it hence coming here for affirmation of that fact. I wouldn't give ANY trivial or excusive slant to what he confesses to have done, as it would be dangerous to him. He went from being a net saver to a debtor (with a near 20k swing) in one bloody night! That IS problem gambling, he knows it, we know it and above all it should not be repeated; a second nightmare like that he may not have the strength and resolve to recover from again.

Loads of helpful stuff and I'm really grateful. I do think it's a good point made earlier and I will stay away even from forums from here on. I suspect I won't be playing anything recreationally to be honest. You're right, I can't reasonably separate poker from gambling. It's illogical. I needed a reminder and I think I've had it. Thanks to all. If it's ok I may set a reminder for a years time to let you know I'm still 'clean'.
 

millseyboy

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Location
UK
Mac - yes that's right, I was down 2kish then ended up in profit. But it could easily have been that day when it happened. It is problem gambling. I know that. To be honest I really wanted to get it off my chest in a non-judgemental environment and I'm really glad I did.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
PABinit
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Location
Canada
What are you on about??? I'm making excuses for no-one.His first post stated he'd done it drunk and i reflected that in my first reply and qualified it thereafter when he said he had done it more than once and was sober at the time.
The amount of money he blew is completely irrelevant (and thats one of the first things they will tell you at any GA meeting).His 20k might be the same as your £500, you do not know his full circumstances and he was obviously able to pay it back relatively quickly and is stating he hasn't gambled since.
I'm not saying to gamble or not gamble just giving an insight into my own experiences and hoping they may be of some help to him in whatever route he chooses.After all this is a gambling forum for the over 18's and since he hasn't made anyone aware that hes not able to handle his own affairs (quite the opposite in fact) why don't you just leave it up to him.

I do know his circumstances because he said in his OP that 3-4k was useful to him. He admitted to blowing 5x that amount. He also used words such as "sickening, hyperventilating and panic".

Also, there are different levels of gambling. Some people are addicted but only spend $25 a week in scratch tickets. Some are severe where they lose control that costs them their entire life savings, plus more and possibly their family.

The worst thing anyone can do is start giving problem gamblers notions such as "oh sometimes we all do stupid things or he was drunk we all mess up". Because sometimes they will grab onto that and believe it.

Im sorry if it seems like im picking on you because Im sure you are just trying to be nice...Im just trying to help him understand how serious his issue is.

He can choose on his own but if we as a community can help guide him in the right direction with good solid advice, we are helping someone.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
I do know his circumstances because he said in his OP that 3-4k was useful to him. He admitted to blowing 5x that amount. He also used words such as "sickening, hyperventilating and panic".

Also, there are different levels of gambling. Some people are addicted but only spend $25 a week in scratch tickets. Some are severe where they lose control that costs them their entire life savings, plus more and possibly their family.

The worst thing anyone can do is start giving problem gamblers notions such as "oh sometimes we all do stupid things or he was drunk we all mess up". Because sometimes they will grab onto that and believe it.

Im sorry if it seems like im picking on you because Im sure you are just trying to be nice...Im just trying to help him understand how serious his issue is.

He can choose on his own but if we as a community can help guide him in the right direction with good solid advice, we are helping someone.

Your not picking on me , go right ahead.
The OP has made his decision and thats great, hopefully the dialogue from everyone helped him and i'd ask him not to read the rest of this post.

For the rest of you:
In essence though he used a high risk strategy and lost ONCE over a protracted period(He can't of lost more than once using this shit or bust strategy or mum would have been called long ago and he wasn't rushing to give back the winnings over the years so in my mind thats what we call gambling) something i think i was very clear in pointing out would always happen.He had no stop/loss method in place and therefore exposed his whole bankroll to it and lost the lot (This is a Financial Adviser by the way!).He was able to repay his mum and replenish most of his savings in a short space of time without his wife finding out so it obviously didn't impact his standard of living that much that she became suspicious so the size of the loss was well within his means (even though the 3 or 4k was useful! 3 or 4k is always useful to anyone)
When people on this forum complain that they lost the lot (in certain instances far in excess of these figures) because a casino was slow in paying and they reversed their withdrawal we don't all send them to the local GA for counselling , they get very little sympathy and are told its their own fault, deal with it.
As for "oh sometimes we all do stupid things or he was drunk we all mess up" its not a notion just a simple fact.If the ONE time in a couple of years he actually lost was when he was drunk i have my own views on that-The ball just didn't go his way that night and he didn't have the measures in place (drunk or sober) to ensure that he lived to fight another day.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The big problem for the OP is the "can't quit when down" mindset. The fact that such a disaster didn't happen earlier, or yet again later having been tempted back by that bonus, is down to luck. The OP has experienced the real danger lurking within the Martingale strategy in that most of the time you end the session even or slightly up, but when it does fail, it can be truly spectacular in that you don't end up just a bit down, you end up losing the lot and unable to make the next step in the sequence that would, if it won, bring you back to even.

It's no good sticking to online poker either because they heavily cross promote the casino side in the poker client with a selection of side games available for when the poker grind gets a bit boring.

As with alcoholics, the general idea is that they should never consider themselves as "cured", because just one drink or bet can be the start of the slippery downward slope.

The OP is actually lucky this was kept hidden as if his boss found out he could have lost his job as he works in the finance industry, and they would consider such a personality trait too high a risk. It would be better to walk away and stay away, and concentrate on the career and family.

Joining a "Gamblers' anonymous" group in the real world may be helpful as it would provide an opportunity to talk about the issue with others you don't feel you have to hide the truth from. It's hard to talk frankly about it with people you are trying to deceive because of being too ashamed or afraid to tell the whole truth.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Vinyl, does this mean than everyone using the Martingale strategy is a compulsive gambler??
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
OP, I think you already know the answer to your question.

What you may not know is how you ended up there in the first place. I can't tell you, you need to look inside yourself for that answer.

Some people really hate to lose, and that's true in most aspects of their lives. If you hate to lose, gambling is not for you!

I knew that because I couldn't bear to be down, I would keep going until I either wasn't down any longer, or I had nothing.

You've followed the chasing losses strategy more than once. NEVER a good plan.

I think you are at a high risk of trying to win back those previous losses, or at least any new ones. What about you has changed, other than a period of not gambling?

You say little about how often you were gambling prior to the big take down.

Many addicts sink to deeper levels after a period of sobriety, not come back with more moderation in place.

I have a feeling you are asking because you have been getting the urge.

If against the best of advice you choose to gamble, at least wait until you have re-established your savings, then save some to put aside for gambling.

  • Open a second bank account just for gambling, not tied to your main savings or household money.
  • Set deposit and loss limits on your accounts.
  • Tell your wife you are gambling. Maybe $100 a month would be a comfortable amount for both of you. Don't keep it a secret. I'm not saying you have to 'fess up about yuor past, but at least keep her in the loop. If she watches you win 1K, it will be hard to blow it back within minutes.

I don't want to give up gambling because I love playing. I'm not sure what you were getting out of it before your losses.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
So true Jasmine.The OP is in business in the financial sector.It would take him all of a minute to do the multiplication to work out what his exposure would be as this escalated and he used it quite successfully for profit over a period of time.
The vast majority of businesses that don't make money don't just close down,they go bust.Reason being the owners are "chasing" and when they hit zero they still have scope to get something back, some do many others end up busted with suppliers and employess picking up the tab.The only comparison i'm drawing in that is the human nature aspect.Most people do no like to lose but that does not make them addicts, just human.
He may be "getting the urge" or maybe the wife may have or be on her way to working out what happened.In that case we are just like the newspaper agony aunts where the guy who cheated on his wife and knows its about to come out writes in about the tremendous remorse he has after cheating on his wife that one and only time,how its never happened since and how he loves her completely , in the hope that when the truth outs he can show her the clipping and use it as his get out of jail card:rolleyes:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Vinyl, does this mean than everyone using the Martingale strategy is a compulsive gambler??

No, but the OP also said he could never quit when down, so when this is coupled with Martingale it's a disaster waiting to happen. If you use the Martingale "responsibly", you will have to accept that one day you will "crash & burn" and will have to retreat from the attempt with significant losses on the session, but not so significant that it is life changing in the negative sense.

You could, for example, deposit £1024 and say that you will try Martingale, but when that £1024 is gone, you will quit, rather than double up by making further deposits of £2048, £4096 etc until you hit and get all your money back.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
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CAG
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Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
Loads of helpful stuff and I'm really grateful. I do think it's a good point made earlier and I will stay away even from forums from here on. I suspect I won't be playing anything recreationally to be honest. You're right, I can't reasonably separate poker from gambling. It's illogical. I needed a reminder and I think I've had it. Thanks to all. If it's ok I may set a reminder for a years time to let you know I'm still 'clean'.

I feel your making the right choice based on what you have shared! Sounds I know probably ironic coming from a person that does gamble. But the mind plays tricks in justifying an action we know is not good for us. I feel this is the case for you. Rather than thinking about Poker at low stakes - focus on what you have shared here. Join a GA group as others said. Check out Gamcare in the uk and Gambling Therapy all decent sites with some really good help. The more you know about your addiction the easier it will be to overcome it.

As VM said - an alcoholic is never really cured - they just learn not to partake. Same as with a compulsive gambler. There is no real cure but they are ways through so you can choose not to give in to that addiction.

Really wish you the best for now and in the future !! :thumbsup:
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
When I worked in a Land based casino, I watched and saw that strategy fail on so many times and also watched the horrible degree of various 'consequences' that went along with said fails!

It was on a limited (smaller) scale due to table limits etc but over the 5 years I was in this environment I would most certainly say (as I did many times back then) There simply is NO system, whichever way it is 'dressed up'

Roulette is not nicknamed the 'Devils Game' for no reason!
 
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