Allowed to gamble while excluded via gamstop.

[jjmoo2019]

Hi everyone. I am a newbie and just wanted some advice. I self excluded myself from gambling on 18th November 2018 vis gamstop. From that date on all online casinos stopped contacting me by email and upon checking my online casino accounts I was not able to log in to any of them which of course is the point of self exclusion. I finally felt I had gotten my addiction under control with help of gamstop and was obviously confident that would be an end to my gambling as I only gambled online and I was now excluded. On 24th June 2019 I received an email from one if the casinos I used to have an account with about a promotion to **snip** for free but win for real. I was shocked to receive this email but thought it must be a mistake. As a gambling addict I of course then went to my casino account and was shocked to see that not only did it **snip** me log in but also**snip** me deposit funds. From this point the gambler in me came back with a vengeance. Over the space of 11 days I deposited a large some of money from my credit cards and gambled the lot. I was so disgusted with myself and when I finally snapped out of my gambling haze I logged straight into gamstop to once again exclude myself but to my amazement I was still excluded and should never have been allowed to deposit in the first place. I would like to point out that I did not try to open a new account with the casino in question I simply was able to log into my previous account with them with the same account that was in-fact blocked due to self exclusion for 7 months. All my information with gamstop and with the casino is the same except for my mobile number which actually changed about 2 years ago but I must not have updated it with the casino.

I understand I have a responsibility but I am a gambling addict and I would never have even tried to log into a casino account had I not be prompted by your email. I have received emails almost daily since 24th June from this particular casino so it was not a one off error. I feel really **snip** down by them. All other casino accounts I have had in the past are still excluded as they should be.

I have emailed the casino and have made a complaint asking for an explanation as to why this has happened. I have also requested a refund of all deposits as I know had I have won and tried to withdraw the winnings they most likely would have refused me due to the self exclusion.

the casino in question is a participating company with gamstop and they are regulated in the uk and are registered with the gambling commission.

i would really appreciate any advice or comments.

 

[colinsunderland]

why haven't you named the casino?
If they have a rep here that would be your starting point.

 

[dunover]

OK, you had about 5 links to Ask Grumblers in there which have been removed, all using the word 'let'.

Please don't fill your posts with links to other sites. Thanks!

 

[dunover]

why haven't you named the casino?
If they have a rep here that would be your starting point.

Yes, that would help greatly.

 

[jjmoo2019]

OK, you had about 5 links to Ask Grumblers in there which have been removed, all using the word 'let'.

Please don't fill your posts with links to other sites. Thanks!

I didn’t know I had links in there. I am brand new to these sites so please bear with me as I am a novice.

 

[jjmoo2019]

why haven't you named the casino?
If they have a rep here that would be your starting point.

I didn’t name them as I don’t want to name a casino that allows SE players to gamble as it may cause someone else with a gambling problem to go on their site while self excluded and be able to gamble. I hope that makes sense.

 

[dunover]

I didn’t name them as I don’t want to name a casino that allows SE players to gamble as it may cause someone else with a gambling problem to go on their site while self excluded and be able to gamble. I hope that makes sense.

Actually, you make a very good point there - I'm going to like you!

In that case, look through the accreditied casinos list, the grey zone list and if the site appears in those you can PM the rep in private.

P.S. use the reviews drop-down tab (little arrow on the right of the tab) above and check those lists out. From there you can find their reps.

 

[Conor@Trada]

Hey @jjmoo2019

I'm sure you could message one of the mods (@dunover , @maxd etc) and they would be able to direct you to the Casino rep if there is one.
Or you could raise a PAB if they're accredited here and go by it that way

Conor

 

[jjmoo2019]

Hey @jjmoo2019

I'm sure you could message one of the mods (@dunover , @maxd etc) and they would be able to direct you to the Casino rep if there is one.
Or you could raise a PAB if they're accredited here and go by it that way

Conor

I have private messaged dunover. Thank you for the advice

 

[dunover]

I have private messaged dunover. Thank you for the advice

OK, alas this is a Grey Zone casino, a reputable one but one which has never been accredited here due to their lack of resolve to come on board heeding the requirements of accreditation. The customer service is a bit messy and they don't have a rep here unfortunately. I will ask @maxd to reply on here as he sees fit and PM him this thread, but you may find this lot won't be cooperative if he contacts them - again, wait for his reply.

Thanks!

 

[jjmoo2019]

OK, alas this is a Grey Zone casino, a reputable one but one which has never been accredited here due to their lack of resolve to come on board heeding the requirements of accreditation. The customer service is a bit messy and they don't have a rep here unfortunately. I will ask @maxd to reply on here as he sees fit and PM him this thread, but you may find this lot won't be cooperative if he contacts them - again, wait for his reply.

Thanks!

Thank you Dunover

 

[maxd]

Yeah, that casino group has stridently ignored player complaints from third parties like us for years and years. TBH they well deserve to be in the Grey Zone but they've got lots of players and make buckets of money so there you go.

Regarding GamStop: there's a big pothole with GamStop that many, many players seem to not notice / ignore / deliberately exploit:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You understand that self-exclusion using GAMSTOP is intended to be an aid to help you manage your use of online gambling websites. It is not intended to function as a replacement for willpower, is not foolproof and we cannot guarantee that it will always result in your being denied access to gambling websites.

Your self-exclusion using GAMSTOP will be most effective if you do not try to work around the exclusion measures GAMSTOP has put in place. You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts, or in any other way try to circumvent GAMSTOP's mechanisms for the duration of your self-exclusion. You are entirely responsible for any actions you take designed to circumvent any self-exclusion registered with GAMSTOP.

The bolded red stuff is my emphasis.

The point is that GamStop is not a guarantee that you will be blocked from gambling websites. Its effectiveness is very much subject to players using exactly the same info at gambling sites as they used at GamStop. Using any variation of the data you give to GamStop -- name, address and email -- will be classed as "circumvention" and is likely to render GamStop ineffective.

 

[jjmoo2019]

Yeah, that casino group has stridently ignored player complaints from third parties like us for years and years. TBH they well deserve to be in the Grey Zone but they've got lots of players and make buckets of money so there you go.

Regarding GamStop: there's a big pothole with GamStop that many, many players seem to not notice / ignore / deliberately exploit:


The bolded red stuff is my emphasis.

The point is that GamStop is not a guarantee that you will be blocked from gambling websites. Its effectiveness is very much subject to players using exactly the same info at gambling sites as they used at GamStop. Using any variation of the data you give to GamStop -- name, address and email -- will be classed as "circumvention" and is likely to render GamStop ineffective.

I totally understand this but I have not changed any info at all. I was able to log into my original account with the casino the same account that was clicked as soon as I signed up to gamstop so if they were able to block my account when I registered why did they then allow me to log in 7 months later even though I am still registered and active with gamstop. I feel they have a responsibility as a casino to ensure they abide by self exclusion requests. I totally agree I’d i had if tried to register a new account with them or changed any info then I would be totally responsible but this is not the case.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I gamstopped circa 6 weeks ago and one casino (accredited) only last week sent me an email saying I had free spins and cash waiting in my account.

 

[colinsunderland]

I gamstopped circa 6 weeks ago and one casino (accredited) only last week sent me an email saying I had free spins and cash waiting in my account.

And heres one (of many) problem with Gamstop.

You aren't allowed to attempt to login to any casino while under a self exclusion with Gamstop.
Casinos aren't allowed to send marketing materials to any self excluded customer.
Casinos don't know you are self excluded until you attempt a login.

Either the customer or the casino have to do something wrong.

 

[trancemonkey]

So, just for clarity... you had used GamStop to self-exclude from all casinos. I assume you did this for a period of 12 months or higher.

After 7 months, you get an email and, rather than ignore it, the addict in you decides that, even though you KNOW you should still be excluded, you will try and see if you can gamble anyway. You then lose an enormous amount of money, and in an attempt to get it back, you now want to complain and get your deposits back.

Now, before we get on to the technicalities of what you should probably do next, I have to say that you must of realised you were still excluded and I believe you have tried to beat the system and failed. Had you of won, and got your money, I doubt this thread would exist.

That said, addiction is a bastard, and I sympathise with your situation. My suggestion would be to contact GAMSTOP and the UKGC and report the issue to them.

You may not get your deposits back, although you may if the UKGC gets involved, but you have no legal recourse against GAMSTOP for all the reasons Max points out.

I hope you have now self-excluded directly from the site in question.

 

[irish-ranger]

So, just for clarity... you had used GamStop to self-exclude from all casinos. I assume you did this for a period of 12 months or higher.

After 7 months, you get an email and, rather than ignore it, the addict in you decides that, even though you KNOW you should still be excluded, you will try and see if you can gamble anyway. You then lose an enormous amount of money, and in an attempt to get it back, you now want to complain and get your deposits back.

Now, before we get on to the technicalities of what you should probably do next, I have to say that you must of realised you were still excluded and I believe you have tried to beat the system and failed. Had you of won, and got your money, I doubt this thread would exist.

That said, addiction is a bastard, and I sympathise with your situation. My suggestion would be to contact GAMSTOP and the UKGC and report the issue to them.

You may not get your deposits back, although you may if the UKGC gets involved, but you have no legal recourse against GAMSTOP for all the reasons Max points out.

I hope you have now self-excluded directly from the site in question.

I was signed up to Gamstop last year the exclusions are for 6 months 1 year 2 year and 5 years.
When my 6 months was up it was a complete and utter ball ache to get it lifted on first contact I had a 24 hour cool off that was a Thursday I had to wait then till the Monday to talk to an advisor which could have taken 14 days I wasn't having it and was lucky enough to get a call back from an advisor then another 24 hour cool off.
If you don't ask for it to be lifted after the exclusion period ends it just rolls on (BUT U HAVE TO REQUEST) for it to be lifted.

 

[trancemonkey]

I was signed up to Gamstop last year the exclusions are for 6 months 1 year 2 year and 5 years.
When my 6 months was up it was a complete and utter ball ache to get it lifted on first contact I had a 24 hour cool off that was a Thursday I had to wait then till the Monday to talk to an advisor which could have taken 14 days I wasn't having it and was lucky enough to get a call back from an advisor then another 24 hour cool off.
If you don't ask for it to be lifted after the exclusion period ends it just rolls on (BUT U HAVE TO REQUEST) for it to be lifted.

Exactly, so he must have known that his Gamstop had NOT ended.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

And heres one (of many) problem with Gamstop.

You aren't allowed to attempt to login to any casino while under a self exclusion with Gamstop.
Casinos aren't allowed to send marketing materials to any self excluded customer.
Casinos don't know you are self excluded until you attempt a login.

Either the customer or the casino have to do something wrong.

Videoslots and PaddyPower took me off the mail list automatically without a log in. So they must have checked the Gamstop register. PaddyPower even sent me an email about the exclusion 3 hrs after signing up to Gamstop.

I haven't attempted to log in anywhere since I signed up.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I see a lot of people slating Gamstop for various reasons...however surely if someone provides false details to a casino on sign up then they are not going to get paid out to...so what's the point? It's the winning that feeds the addiction. If you're not going to get paid out, you may as well play demo mode slots.

The only way I could see Gamstop truly failing is if someone moves house half way through an exclusion period and uses a different mobile number to sign up with. In this instance, there's not really much anyone can do for the problem gambler. It's THEIR responsibility to keep their Gamstop registration details up to date.

The major point here is that when you use any exclusion tool you have to truly WANT to get better. If you do then trying to circumvent the initiative wouldn't even enter someone's head. Part of winning the battle truly is in your mindset. This is why I argue that there is little point in casinos/regulatory bodies forcing responsible gambling on to people. People will self destruct until they take stock and set about doing something to help get themselves better. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force the horse to drink it.

 

[Nicola]

The major point here is that when you use any exclusion tool you have to truly WANT to get better. If you do then trying to circumvent the initiative wouldn't even enter someone's head. Part of winning the battle truly is in your mindset. This is why I argue that there is little point in casinos/regulatory bodies forcing responsible gambling on to people. People will self destruct until they take stock and set about doing something to help get themselves better. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force the horse to drink it.

This is the key point. As I said in the other thread, you can exclude yourself, buy software or even cut your cards up but there is always a way round it.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

You fully know you wouldn't get your withdrawals if you had won. So why even bother putting real money in to the casino, Play demo ect, You could just as easily go to a land based casino where your not self excluded but you go to a place where you know you should be banned and take that risk.
There only so much a FREE software as gamstop can do. It clearly failed you but its FREE, If you want real help with an addiction then go to your Gp go to meetings ect get your internet provider to block all casinos give them a list get your bank to stop any gambing transactions ect. There is so much more help out for you if you wanted it and was serious about stopping gambling
" but I am a gambling addict and I would never have even tried to log into a casino account had I not be prompted by your email. "
Im sure you have had times in the pass where you seen an advert in the newspaper online or on Tv for a gambling site " I seem them EVERY DAY"
yet you never tried logging on to them. So an random email isnt going to make you suddenly log in and make you deposit , ANYTHING could of promoted that in you, bit unfair to play the casino for emailing you.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

To be fair, there are questions that need to be asked as to why some casinos are actively checking the Gamstop register without the customer needing to log in and others aren't.

Maybe if all casinos were actively forced to check the register daily, there wouldn't be issues with people receiving unwanted/unneeded marketing emails?

 

[trancemonkey]

To be fair, there are questions that need to be asked as to why some casinos are actively checking the Gamstop register without the customer needing to log in and others aren't.

Maybe if all casinos were actively forced to check the register daily, there wouldn't be issues with people receiving unwanted/unneeded marketing emails?

My guess, and just a guess, is they may be doing something like a "soft log-in" on all accounts regularly to check them against the GAMSTOP register.

 

[irish-ranger]

I see a lot of people slating Gamstop for various reasons...however surely if someone provides false details to a casino on sign up then they are not going to get paid out to...so what's the point? It's the winning that feeds the addiction. If you're not going to get paid out, you may as well play demo mode slots.

The only way I could see Gamstop truly failing is if someone moves house half way through an exclusion period and uses a different mobile number to sign up with. In this instance, there's not really much anyone can do for the problem gambler. It's THEIR responsibility to keep their Gamstop registration details up to date.

The major point here is that when you use any exclusion tool you have to truly WANT to get better. If you do then trying to circumvent the initiative wouldn't even enter someone's head. Part of winning the battle truly is in your mindset. This is why I argue that there is little point in casinos/regulatory bodies forcing responsible gambling on to people. People will self destruct until they take stock and set about doing something to help get themselves better. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force the horse to drink it.

There's always a way round it I used it not because I am a problem gambler I have a trip this summer I wanted to throw all my cash at after 3 months on Gamstop I had more than enough saved
I felt the need to gamble again and I did mange to sign up to a casino registered on Gamstop despoited and cashed out (fully KYCd) I won't for obvious reasons name the casino or
mention how I done it.
So Gamstop is not fool proof by any means and can be circumvented I do suspect if I had of had a major win that the casino probably would have dug a bit deeper and busted me.