Allowed To Gamble (Self-Excluded) Now Locked out and no reply

hypeamg

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I have a question I would like some advice on please if possible.

So to cut a long story short, I was able to gamble at a casino under the same group as another even though I was self-excluded. I have read the terms and conditions which say...

29 RESPONSIBLE GAMING AND GAMBLING

Self-exclusion (GB players) Should you need to take a break from gambling with this Website and all other skins and Websites operated by the licence holder, MT SecureTrade Limited and Betit Operations Limited, we provide a self-exclusion facility which can be activated by the customer within the limits section or by contacting support. Self-exclusion means that your account will remain closed for a minimum period (this minimum period is 6 months and the account will not be reactivated under any circumstances during the exclusion period). Upon the end of your Self Exclusion your account will remain closed until you make contact with Customer Services to have your account reactivated. This can be done in the form of an e-mail or a request through our Live Chat system. This is the major difference to a standard account closure request; time out. Once you have self-excluded on the brand you are currently a member of, all Your accounts operated by both MT SecureTrade Limited and Betit Operations Limited will be closed for the self-exclusion period selected. This is in accordance with our obligations under Social Responsibility Codes

Honest details were provided at both casinos along with the same name, address, date of birth, email address etc so fundamentally no argument can be made that it was not myself. The casino that allowed me to gamble even though I was self-excluded from another MT Secure Trade Limited casino have since closed my account and failed to reply to 6 of my emails. I have submitted a complaint to ask gamblers along with proof from the original casino in which I was self-excluded from. Ultimately yes I should not of gambled and I will admit I do have a problem, however the casino I believe knew full well this was the case and took advantage of me even though they were in breach of their terms and conditions.

I am currently trying to contest this because it is a breach of their terms and conditions under their Social Responsibility Code, however at the moment they are not even replying to any of my emails at all. Where do I go from here?
 

dunover

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It's unfortunately an old Everymatrix issue. Known here by an acronym I coined and I'm sick of the subject to be honest. EMSEB (Every Matrix Self Exclusion Bullshit). They don't check your details when signing up and depositing, only withdrawing.

Now this breaches UK consumer law as their terms don't include other sites under their license therefore are incomplete and thus prejudicial and unfair.

Right, they should void your bets and refund deposits promptly, as say Paddy Power or other casinos would if they noticed duplicate details and you had managed to deposit while SE'd.

Don't despair as luckily we have one member here who had exactly the same issue, was denied winnings and took them to court under the above premise.

They never bothered to contest his claim on merit as they know it would have set a precedent for all the players they've ripped-off over the last 6 years (1981 Limitations Act means you can claim for up to 6 years after the event incurring the debt). He won by default and still they never paid in the statutory 6 weeks, so he posted it on here and they coughed up but have the CCJ on their record now for the next 6 years for not settling it in 6 weeks.

So e-mail them formally requesting any deposits/winnings to be returned within 14 days, after which you will seek recovery through the Courts on the grounds of unfair, incomplete and prejudicial terms. If your deposits and or winnings are not forthcoming then issue online a CC Summons. It's not that expensive and they have a UK Office address to send it to, check the UKGC List of Licensees under EveryMatrix. If your case is simply about deposits lost, under UKGC terms your bets should have been void and thus returned when they spotted the SE, so add that to the claim information.
 

hypeamg

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dunover,

Thank you so much my friend, I can't tell you how grateful I am for your help here. I can't believe the casinos get away with this, yes I am to blame and I am getting help for my addiction, however it's the fact that they don't even reply to my emails now knowing full well what they have done. Am I able to file a chargeback at the bank by supplying sufficient evidence to support my claim?
 

dunover

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dunover,

Thank you so much my friend, I can't tell you how grateful I am for your help here. I can't believe the casinos get away with this, yes I am to blame and I am getting help for my addiction, however it's the fact that they don't even reply to my emails now knowing full well what they have done. Am I able to file a chargeback at the bank by supplying sufficient evidence to support my claim?

Technically yes as you've paid money for what amounts to 'fun bets' due to unfair terms, but I would be wary of doing so as they card companies/banks have little knowledge of gambling matters and would be unlikely to go into the legal merits of your argument, but just say "you made the transactions so we're settling them."

Issue a formal e-mail or letter to their Office stating you want this matter settling within 14 days and your intention to proceed with a claim should it not be.

If you have an arbitration claim in at the moment let that resolve first as it shows you've tried all avenues at resolution before Court action. Losing your claim at eCogra or wherever won't harm your case as the aren't legal experts like the Court Judges are. If you haven't started an official case with a dispute resolution service I would personally go straight to court as it's pretty much an open-and-shut case for the reasons cited above. I can't see any practical grounds for defence on their part as you have a whole host of Consumer Legislation on your side, plus UKGC terms.
 

hypeamg

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It's unfortunately an old Everymatrix issue. Known here by an acronym I coined and I'm sick of the subject to be honest. EMSEB (Every Matrix Self Exclusion Bullshit). They don't check your details when signing up and depositing, only withdrawing.

Now this breaches UK consumer law as their terms don't include other sites under their license therefore are incomplete and thus prejudicial and unfair.

Right, they should void your bets and refund deposits promptly, as say Paddy Power or other casinos would if they noticed duplicate details and you had managed to deposit while SE'd.

Don't despair as luckily we have one member here who had exactly the same issue, was denied winnings and took them to court under the above premise.

They never bothered to contest his claim on merit as they know it would have set a precedent for all the players they've ripped-off over the last 6 years (1981 Limitations Act means you can claim for up to 6 years after the event incurring the debt). He won by default and still they never paid in the statutory 6 weeks, so he posted it on here and they coughed up but have the CCJ on their record now for the next 6 years for not settling it in 6 weeks.

So e-mail them formally requesting any deposits/winnings to be returned within 14 days, after which you will seek recovery through the Courts on the grounds of unfair, incomplete and prejudicial terms. If your deposits and or winnings are not forthcoming then issue online a CC Summons. It's not that expensive and they have a UK Office address to send it to, check the UKGC List of Licensees under EveryMatrix. If your case is simply about deposits lost, under UKGC terms your bets should have been void and thus returned when they spotted the SE, so add that to the claim information.

Hi Dunover,

Just to check the operator is MT Secure Trade Limited, not EveryMatrix. I have also lost money with EveryMatrix, so are all of these operators linked? Again, thank you so much I would be happy to send you a gift in exchange for your help which I am hugely grateful for!
 

hypeamg

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Location
UK
I also have deposits taken from "CYBER PLAY" which I do not recognise, they should be VIKS which is operated under EveryMatrix Ltd but they are not identified on my bank statement as this. Does anyone know about "CYBERPLAY" bit confused as surely it should be deposited under "EveryMatrix" right? Do I have legal grounds on this too
 

dunover

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Hi Dunover,

Just to check the operator is MT Secure Trade Limited, not EveryMatrix. I have also lost money with EveryMatrix, so are all of these operators linked? Again, thank you so much I would be happy to send you a gift in exchange for your help which I am hugely grateful for!

NO! EM and MT used to be linked years ago but are now separate licensees. I don't need any gifts mate, just want you to resolve it because frankly this issue is a pain in a$$ for both Max here who does the PABs (arbitration) and forum members most of whom are getting tired of replying to these sort of threads over an issue that should have been sorted out years ago by both the casinos and the inept UKGC.

In fact yet another thread has just surfaced funnily enough, which has more detail on the EMSEB issue:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...trix-scam-update-non-payment-court-order.html

Cyber Play is simply a payment processor and there is no need for EM or MT Secure as far as I know to specify the casino in the receipt, as you'll find all casinos under that license will share just one or two processors they have a contract with.

To find licensees go here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


FYI MT Secure have these sites:

zmt.JPG


EVERYMATRIX:


zem.JPG
 
Last edited:

hypeamg

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Jun 5, 2017
Location
UK
Hello Dunover,

I believe I self-excluded from other casinos on this list also, just trying to find more information out on this, quite disgraceful on MT Secure Trade's behalf, however I guess the first thing for me to do is build a credible case outlining all of the proof on this.
 

hypeamg

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Ok so it appears the deposits are within another casino during the period of self-exclusion, and IKIBU are trying to say it was a cooling off period of 1 week, however I have proof from 2 others casinos that it was infact self-exclusion.

Now because all of these casinos come under the MT Secure Trade Limited umbrella I do not know which casino this was, which leaves me a bit stuck, but regardless of this and IKIBU's argument you can clearly see 2 MT Secure Trade staff confirming it was in fact "self-exclusion"

I have removed my name for security reasons...

proof1.jpg

proof2.jpg
 

hypeamg

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Jun 5, 2017
Location
UK
More proof of the "self-exclusion" even though IKIBU have said I was on a cooling off period.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Now I have reason to believe I self-excluded at either ShadowBet, Guts, or another MT Secure Trade Limited casino in the past, I am 100% sure of it, but now they have locked all my accounts and have told me it's only CasinoPop recently, but I believe otherwise. Where do I stand as none of these casinos will give me any information and keep avoiding my question referring only to the recent CasinoPop self-exclusion.

Really need your help here guys.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

I strongly believe I was self-excluded a long time ago and they are using the recent CasinoPop "cooling-off" cr*p to try and avoid the fact they let me play on numerous casinos. Does anyone have any advice as they will not disclose details of whether I self-excluded or not, just look at ShadowBet for example.
 

brianmon

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While Betit are now part of MT Secure trade, they do have a separate license. They also had a separate license when on EveryMatrix, from the other EM casinos.

So there are no legal obligations regarding SE between Betit and MTS, even though it looks like they're trying to implement it voluntarily, within the group.

The rules regarding SE are appertaining to casinos which share a license, regardless of whether they're part of the same group.

So if you SE'd previously from a site within MTS, which shares the same license. Then you may have a case.
 

hypeamg

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IKIBU will not tell me which MT Secure Trade casino it is that my deposits were taken from during the period of my self exclusion, so now I am back to square one. They also tell me my self-exclusion is a "cooling off period" even though 3 other casinos say it's a self exclusion which I know it is, what can I do here now?
 

theapple

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IKIBU will not tell me which MT Secure Trade casino it is that my deposits were taken from during the period of my self exclusion, so now I am back to square one. They also tell me my self-exclusion is a "cooling off period" even though 3 other casinos say it's a self exclusion which I know it is, what can I do here now?

no idea, but obviously its only self exclusion when it suits them. Even if its just cooldown, they can try to sell it as self exclusion (there have been cases like that). But its casinos we are talking about here and they are above the law, so not sure what should be your next step. maybe filling a pab if casinos in questions are accredited here.

also while i hate how casinos are abusing self exclusion mess, i dont like how there are players doing the same too. Now dont get me wrong im not saying you did anything wrong or how you did it on purpose because obviously i cant know that much, just saying how players abusing self exclusion are the reason why casinos are so "strict" now. Plus they probably figured not many (if any?) people will bring them to court over some smaller sums so they are just abusing current poorly regulated situation i suppose.
 

dunover

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no idea, but obviously its only self exclusion when it suits them. Even if its just cooldown, they can try to sell it as self exclusion (there have been cases like that). But its casinos we are talking about here and they are above the law, so not sure what should be your next step. maybe filling a pab if casinos in questions are accredited here.

also while i hate how casinos are abusing self exclusion mess, i dont like how there are players doing the same too. Now dont get me wrong im not saying you did anything wrong or how you did it on purpose because obviously i cant know that much, just saying how players abusing self exclusion are the reason why casinos are so "strict" now. Plus they probably figured not many (if any?) people will bring them to court over some smaller sums so they are just abusing current poorly regulated situation i suppose.

Players would never be able to abuse SE if casino licensees were made to do their checks and cross-referencing at sign-up. :thumbsup:
 

theapple

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Players would never be able to abuse SE if casino licensees were made to do their checks and cross-referencing at sign-up. :thumbsup:

give it another decade or two and they will get it sorted.

i bet how in year of 2031 people will be having a laugh over a beer discussing how crazy were those "wild wild west" times back in early 2000's :D

i really thought ive seen it all until i read about that casino with offices in slovakia (was it slovakia?) thats registered as small business or something, and even if it goes out of business it only has to give up to $5k back and can simply start a new casino under different name like nothing happened :cool:

there are so many issues when it comes to online gambling and casinos only doing cross check when someone tries to cashout is just one of them. Ok i get it they arent doing it when someone registers, lack of resources/tools/youname it, but letting people play for days/ weeks without doing simplest of checks is beyond ridiculous.

For all you know someone could be playing for next 4 months @ casino where he cant possibly cashout because of license self exclusion issues but the moment he/she tries to make cashout they block his account... and its done because they care about responsible gaming, obviously :D

just thinking out loud, problem gambler might lose his house 4 times over by the time casino decides he shouldnt be able to play there. And its all done because casinos respect responsible gambling, of course.
 

hypeamg

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Could I file a chargeback on the grounds I was self-excluded during that period from MT Secure Trade? If so, would I face any legal repercussions if I did? However, if the authorities approached me I could prove my case as I have on here?
 

dunover

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Could I file a chargeback on the grounds I was self-excluded during that period from MT Secure Trade? If so, would I face any legal repercussions if I did? However, if the authorities approached me I could prove my case as I have on here?

I already said, the banks/card companies will likely side with the casino as you admit the deposits, because they don't have the wherewithal to know about all but the most basic reasons for chargebacks.

I've said once, and for the last time contact the casino using the information provided here, i.e. void bets UKGC rules and give 14 days notice of further action if it's not resolved. And for Pete's sake stop trying to play in future.
 

weesie

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I have a question and I mean no disrespect to the players.

If you are "self-excluding" why are you playing at all?

Isn't the idea to take a break, be it temporary or permanent?

Temporary, I can understand the frustration if that "exclusion" time had passed.

Permanent, ????

I don't understand, I guess
 

nikantw

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I don't like the SE system. If I asked for SE, I would feel totaly worthless, like I am at the lowest point of my pathetic existence. :puke:
And you have all those ....... that do SE, find ways to sneak back in and ask refund if they lose. :sob:

Don't mean anything for anyone. Just how I feel about the SE system as it is.
 

spintee

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This is going to be a repeat of the EM situation

Guts that was a 1st class, players come first casino have turned in the wrong direction

They open up the IGaming cloud so they have there own umbrella and so other sites can run from them, Now not only are they buying or taking on larger casino's but also many of new sites are opening up under there license thus causing another S.E excluded mess

Its ok that somewhere in there terms it states about self excludded from other sites in there group but the problem is what sites? They have white label sites opening up on a weekly basis

How is an ordinarily casino player suppose to know who is connected to who? there should be a clear list on every site, simple as that

I have alraedy see complaints rushing in and not just about the SE either but about payments etc and accounts getting locked with these new sites,

That with all the added errors the sites have had running from them.
 

hypeamg

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I am tempted to just file a chargeback as they will release no information on who the self-exclusion was with, so it's really frustrating.
 

spintee

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I am tempted to just file a chargeback as they will release no information on who the self-exclusion was with, so it's really frustrating.

I would advise to halt that procedure for the time being. That should be your last resort if at all

I know its frustrating but I am sure you will find some help on here
 

nutnut

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You don't deserve a penny back, I hope you get nothing. You knew full well you was excluded yet YOU decided to sign up, YOU decided to deposit and because you lost you KNEW you was entitled to the money back.

I would be embarrassed to make this thread if I was you, but dignity and self respect doesn't seem to matter to you.

Everyone has problems in life, it is up to you to get them sorted. If you had won you would have been screaming to be paid, I do not like casinos but in cases like this I side with them.
 

hypeamg

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Sorry to hear you are so angry, I really hope you manage to deal with that. Unfortunately I am "human" and I have problems in life just like everyone else, and we live in a world where corporations and companies do like to "take advantage" of people for commercial gain.
 

weesie

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Sorry to hear you are so angry, I really hope you manage to deal with that. Unfortunately I am "human" and I have problems in life just like everyone else, and we live in a world where corporations and companies do like to "take advantage" of people for commercial gain.

Many unethical players out there too.........
 
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