Bogus Complaint Aladdin's Gold/Club World complaint - player fraud

appl3pye

Banned User - bogus PAB - fraudster - multiple cas
PABnoaccred
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Location
Birmingham
I registered with this casino in October. I've read these forums for a long time and used a number of their recommendations for casinos, so when I was reading the casino pages and saw they had an opening offer (which they still do) where you can get unlimited bonuses for the first week you register, I hopped on and played. I deposited four or five times during the week, and the last time I deposited I played Blackjack, Texas Hold em, an Aladdin slot, I think some Paigow, all of which I checked to make sure were okay and finished with a balance of $7000. I requested a withdrawal for $2000 to start and that's where the problems began.

First, I was asked for my identification and proof of address. Okay, I sent that in. Next, I was asked to send in a faxback form..... Okay, I completed that as well. Next...... well nothing came next, there was just silence and my withdrawals were reversed everytime I requested them. So I contacted support via their live chat and was told that all my documents as well as my faxback had received and been in order and approved. I cashed out again... reversed. This time, I was told my account "was with a manager" and I'd hear back soon.

It's now been nearly six months of me calling, emailing and using their live chat an average of once a week or so. Everytime I call when its not during business hours, I am told to call during business hours to talk to a manager. Everytime I call during business hours and request to talk to a manager, I am told "Oh, I'm sorry they are all in meetings". I am convinced this is intentional, I actually copied a live chat conversation with them and pasted the exact thing to a representative that he had told me the week before. I have been told numerous times they would call or email the manager for me. I have had them forward the email that they send to the manager with me. I finally pm'ed the representative on here and asked them to look into the situation for me. Nothing, nothing, nothing. I'm about to rip my hair out at this point. Between all of my emails, phone calls and live chats, I've probably talked to them 20 to 25 times and still nothing.

I still login and look at my account balance, here I am as we speak, looking at a beautiful balance of $7,038.35 that is worth less than a toy prize in a cereal box since this site refuses to return my calls, emails and live chats. This was a truly horrible place to play, and I do not recommend them by any means. Do not play here as they will not pay your withdrawal, and refuse to put you in touch with a manager or escalate your concerns when you have a problem.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Please go up to the I Gaming Reps tab at the top of the forum and look for Club World Rep listing. Then click on it, and look for the Send Private Message. Tom might be able to get to the bottom of this. Please give him a day or two as it is the weekend. If you then don't hear anything from him, please PM MaxD here in the forum and let him know the rep is unresponsive.

If you're on the up and up, you may consider PAB. But first things first... try contacting the CW rep.

Good luck.
 

appl3pye

Banned User - bogus PAB - fraudster - multiple cas
PABnoaccred
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Location
Birmingham
Mousey, thank you for the help. I sent a message in December or January to the representative, I believe and never got a response back. I'll send him another message.

Nifty, I registered here in November when I first became concerned, but I've (more or less) been in contact with customer service the whole time and it seemed for most of the time that this was just some accounting error that wouldbe fixed soon. I've had no problem getting representatives on the phone and on livechat although they rarely respond to emails. I am not often available to call them during business hours, and because they are accredited here, my assumption was that I'd finally get a hold of a manager on the phone and sort this mess out, but even though I have asked their support multiple times via email and livechat to have a manager contact me, nothing. In terms of calling them, I did that every couple of weeks, but after the fourth or fifth time of them telling me that their managers were mysteriously in meetings and never receiving a call back, I realized I don't really have many other steps to take I reported it here. My last call to them was this past Thursday.

I don't know what else to do, my documents have been received and accepted, my account is open and I can wager (I don't want to gamble away all of my winnings as I've read a few stories about that on here) and I can request a withdrawal. I've tried withdrawing every few weeks hoping a manager will have wandered along and fixed my account, but they just keep getting declined.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'm grateful. I've tried requesting a payment by cheque instead of Neteller to see if that would be easier for them to process but those were declined as well. I will try pming the representative a second time to see if that gets me anywhere.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
PABinit
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Honestly I do find it difficult to believe the casino hasnt at least given a reason for refusal of payment. Over the past few months there have been several threads about Aladdins Gold and given the op's admission that he monitored this forum I would have thought he would have chipped in at an earlier stage. Tom of Clubworld usually answrers pms within a couple of days and its unlikely he wouldnt at least have unanswered a pm for 6 months.

Appl3pye,

Your opening post was well-written and if this were a rogue, it is certainly possible they will do this to you. However, as this is Club World, no response over so many months is unlikely so I must ask you whether you have revealed the whole truth. Did they, at any time, give you a reason for not processing the w/d? If they had labelled you as a fraudster they would have told you so and your account would be locked.

You should know by now that this sort of accusation will not work against casinos that have a continued presence here. You should have submitted a PAB to MaxD but since you are a frequent visitor I dont need to tell you that.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Mousey, thank you for the help. I sent a message in December or January to the representative, I believe and never got a response back. I'll send him another message.

Nifty, I registered here in November when I first became concerned, but I've (more or less) been in contact with customer service the whole time and it seemed for most of the time that this was just some accounting error that wouldbe fixed soon. I've had no problem getting representatives on the phone and on livechat although they rarely respond to emails. I am not often available to call them during business hours, and because they are accredited here, my assumption was that I'd finally get a hold of a manager on the phone and sort this mess out, but even though I have asked their support multiple times via email and livechat to have a manager contact me, nothing. In terms of calling them, I did that every couple of weeks, but after the fourth or fifth time of them telling me that their managers were mysteriously in meetings and never receiving a call back, I realized I don't really have many other steps to take I reported it here. My last call to them was this past Thursday.

I don't know what else to do, my documents have been received and accepted, my account is open and I can wager (I don't want to gamble away all of my winnings as I've read a few stories about that on here) and I can request a withdrawal. I've tried withdrawing every few weeks hoping a manager will have wandered along and fixed my account, but they just keep getting declined.

If anyone has any other suggestions, I'm grateful. I've tried requesting a payment by cheque instead of Neteller to see if that would be easier for them to process but those were declined as well. I will try pming the representative a second time to see if that gets me anywhere.

I think there's some sort of holiday over the next few days which may slow all this down. However, as said, if you get no response from the CW PM, please contact Maxd... look for one of his posts here in the forum, he has the links for the PAB rules and forms. As I said, if everything is as it should be with your account, the amount of money would make the PAB worthwhile -- if you are unable to resolve this via communication with the representative.
 

butterflyboogie

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
Casino Oblivion
Imo, I would do a PAB and get it over with. If they have had six months and there is no communication, then I'm sorry, I would ask for someone else to look at the situation. It seems to me, from my memory, that others on the forum have had trouble getting proper communication. If I'm wrong, then I apologize in advance, however it seems like I read this recently. Good luck with getting your money, I do hope this is just a misunderstanding.
 

fanihi

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Location
Guam
What kind of bonus did you take?

I hope you were on a table games bonus and not slots!!??
Maybe thats where the problem is?
 

Pocketdiggers77

Gamester
Joined
May 9, 2006
Location
On Top of Old Smokey
Some definite strange goings on, here. Positive for you that you can still log in to your account and your money is still there. Negative for you is that this is your first post at Casinomeister, six months after joining. I am not saying this is the case but a good percentage of these first post, "insert ACCREDITED casino name here" Slow Pay/ No Pay end up being player collusion/ bonus fraud. If I was owed $7K for over six months from an accredited casino I would be raising a lot more hell than you are. I am confident we are missing some pertinent information here but you have taken the right steps in contacting the casino rep at CM. I have no idea why it has taken you six months to do this if you have been reading Casinomeister at all. Forgive me for being skeptical appl3pye but we see these types of posts all of the time and usually the only ones that hold up are at Rogue Casinos. If Club World has truly let a $7K balance slip through the cracks for six months they should be required to make a lump sum payout plus interest.

PD
 

appl3pye

Banned User - bogus PAB - fraudster - multiple cas
PABnoaccred
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Location
Birmingham
The bonus I took was a 100% table games bonus.

I wish I had more to post, it's not like the casino has communicated with me or locked my account. I sent a pm to the representative per Mousey's suggestion and I will PAB if nothing comes from that per maxd's suggestion. The rep I pm'd is the one listed as "clubworld" is that the one you all seem to know? At any rate, I'm actually encouraged to see so many people saying positive things about them, it makes me think it was just a slip up, especially as the last posted mention I am able to login, wager, and withdraw fine, they are just declined.
 

harrys99

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
Wherever I Want
The bonus I took was a 100% table games bonus.

I wish I had more to post, it's not like the casino has communicated with me or locked my account. I sent a pm to the representative per Mousey's suggestion and I will PAB if nothing comes from that per maxd's suggestion. The rep I pm'd is the one listed as "clubworld" is that the one you all seem to know? At any rate, I'm actually encouraged to see so many people saying positive things about them, it makes me think it was just a slip up, especially as the last posted mention I am able to login, wager, and withdraw fine, they are just declined.

That is correct. Give him a couple days to respond as he may be on holiday or traveling.

I just noticed that he has not been on the forum today. FYI
 

appl3pye

Banned User - bogus PAB - fraudster - multiple cas
PABnoaccred
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Location
Birmingham
I finally received a message today. There's no information for any of my questions about why I am constantly told all of the managers are in meetings or that no manager has ever emailed or called me back, just a suggestion to PAB with max.

I suppose that is what I will do!
 

anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Well, if a PAB was suggested by CW, then that is the way they want to go and you should file one immediately.

Just a suggestion though, make sure all your i's are dotted and t's crossed because MaxD will find the ones that are not. I am sure he will get things sorted out and then the truth will prevail.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
OK, PAB received and submitted. Turns out the casino suspects player fraud. I've seen enough of the evidence to support that claim. AFAIC it's up to the player to contact the casino and clear things up.

I should add that there is some obvious player culpability involved here. Thread title updated.
 
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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
OK, PAB received and submitted. Turns out the casino suspects player fraud. I've seen enough of the evidence to support that claim. AFAIC it's up to the player to contact the casino and clear things up.

I should add that there is some obvious player culpability involved here. Thread title updated.


What seems odd here is that the player did not seem to have his account blocked, and kept on getting told that all was well with his documents and payment. The formal accusation only came after 6 months, when CWC told the player to PAB here.

The player WAS already trying to clear things up for 6 months, but was getting stonewalled. Why is it any different now? If CWC could not "clear things up" in private for 6 months, how would things be different now. Surely the publicity of this case alone would not change the decisions that had been made and stuck to for the last 6 months.

It looks to me like a pointless exercise, CWC have already decided it is fraud, and no amount of trying now will "clear things up" enough for CWC to do a U-Turn and admit they had it completely wrong to start with, and could not put things right over 6 months of dealing direct with this player.

Had the evidence been convincing, the OP would have "turned red" and been banned from the forum for fraud. The fact that this hasn't happened looks like CWC were deliberately stalling for 6 months, rather than genuinely attempting to clear things up with the player such that a final decision could be made.
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Location
NY
What seems odd here is that the player did not seem to have his account blocked, and kept on getting told that all was well with his documents and payment. The formal accusation only came after 6 months, when CWC told the player to PAB here.

The player WAS already trying to clear things up for 6 months, but was getting stonewalled. Why is it any different now? If CWC could not "clear things up" in private for 6 months, how would things be different now. Surely the publicity of this case alone would not change the decisions that had been made and stuck to for the last 6 months.

It looks to me like a pointless exercise, CWC have already decided it is fraud, and no amount of trying now will "clear things up" enough for CWC to do a U-Turn and admit they had it completely wrong to start with, and could not put things right over 6 months of dealing direct with this player.

Had the evidence been convincing, the OP would have "turned red" and been banned from the forum for fraud. The fact that this hasn't happened looks like CWC were deliberately stalling for 6 months, rather than genuinely attempting to clear things up with the player such that a final decision could be made.

That is a good point. Why wasn't the OPs account locked until things were cleared up. The OP can/could still log into thier account and play the balance if they wanted to. In most cases of player fraud it takes a matter of days to lock their account, take their winnings and let them know they are committing a fraud. In this case it has taken months, 6 to be exact, but the account is/was still active.

The OP has stated they have tried to contact someone at this group numerous times, was this information brought to their attention before their post here? What part of this puzzle are we missing here? Something is still not right.

LH
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
It looks to me like a pointless exercise, CWC have already decided it is fraud, and no amount of trying now will "clear things up" enough for CWC to do a U-Turn and admit they had it completely wrong to start with ....

How marvelously well informed you must be VWM! I wish I had your access to the inner thoughts of CWC management, their secret plans and other things not said.

OR ... perhaps you are just full of wild speculations today and haven't got a shred of evidence upon which to hang your imaginings.

Which is it I wonder?

For my part I say it isn't a worthless exercise because it has not been a formal complaint until now. I've told the OP what he should do to clear this up and if he does that I have every reason to believe that CWC will receive him fairly and deal with him justly. If they do not he is free to return to me and present the updated case for further consideration. Or are you saying that am I in on the conspiracy against the OP too? Just out of curiosity why in god's name would I post what I have posted here if that were true? And why have you chosen this case to make that accusation? Curiouser and curiouser.

I said earlier that I had seen the evidence and supported the casino's decision. Since that evidence was not what I'd call 100% conclusive I thought it fair to let the OP retain his membership here. Are you suggesting that was in error, that suspected frauds should be banned right along with the confirmed ones? And where is that line to be drawn?

I respectfully suggest you put away your kettle and spoon and let this one play itself out. Your speculations are not helping matters here, AFAICT.

What part of this puzzle are we missing here? Something is still not right.

See the above.
 
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chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
PABinit
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
If the OP is a fraudster then he shouldnt be paid. Simple as that. What bothers me is CW's apparent unwillingness to communicate with the OP.CW needs to explain why they did not respond to the OP. If they believed that they are right they come clean with it and should not refuse to communicate.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
How marvelously well informed you must be VWM! I wish I had your access to the inner thoughts of CWC management, their secret plans and other things not said.

OR ... perhaps you are just full of wild speculations today and haven't got a shred of evidence upon which to hang your imaginings.

Which is it I wonder?

For my part I say it isn't a worthless exercise because it has not been a formal complaint until now. I've told the OP what he should do to clear this up and if he does that I have every reason to believe that CWC will receive him fairly and deal with him justly. If they do not he is free to return to me and present the updated case for further consideration. Or are you saying that am I in on the conspiracy against the OP too? Just out of curiosity why in god's name would I post what I have posted here if that were true? And why have you chosen this case to make that accusation? Curiouser and curiouser.

I said earlier that I had seen the evidence and supported the casino's decision. Since that evidence was not what I'd call 100% conclusive I thought it fair to let the OP retain his membership here. Are you suggesting that was in error, that suspected frauds should be banned right along with the confirmed ones? And where is that line to be drawn?

I respectfully suggest you put away your kettle and spoon and let this one play itself out. Your speculations are not helping matters here, AFAICT.



See the above.


My main gripe is the failure to lock the OP's account pending the outstanding matters being cleared up. This is surely plain wrong, as it would allow further play at a time when CWC were not sure whether this was a legitimate player.

Whilst we only have the OP's side, it is a tale of trying to clear things up, but being stonewalled until he went public. What advice could you give to the OP that CWC management could not for 6 months that would enable progress to have been made.

I am not saying the OP is innocent, just that it seems CWC have allowed this issue to stall whilst there was no publicity, but when he posts, all of a sudden managers are no longer tied up in eternal meetings and are able to send out an email, even if it is one to say bring a PAB.

Unless they were 100% sure to start with that this was fraud, they have dealt with the OP pretty badly when it seemed he knew of nowhere else to turn for help. Publicity does not change the facts, and if continued investigation does not change the opinion of CWC, then surely they should have made their determination months ago, and told the OP their payment would not be made because there was strong evidence of fraud.

Casinos suffer fraud from players, but players suffer bad CS from many casinos, neither is right. This plays right into the hands of fraudsters, because their experience is hard to differentiate from plain bad CS. Pretending to a player that things are OK only make things look bad for the casino in the longer term.

Specifically, the OP withdrew, and was asked to send in documents. He was then told his documents had been approved, so he made a withdrawal. His withdrawal just kept getting put back into his account without explanation, and when he asked what the problem was, he got the "talk to the hand" response. As far as he was concerned, this was a case of bad CS. It doesn't seem that any further attempt was made over the next 6 months to get things cleared up, even though the OP was in regular communication with CS, and wanted to get things moving along. In all this time, he was free to log in and continue playing with the balance, which to me is the REALLY bad thing about this case, as so often players frustrated with such delays end up playing everything back, which makes the problem go away. Whilst players should remain patient over short term delays, it is unreasonable to expect a player to remain patient for 6 months whilst allowing the account to remain open and offering the temptation to play everything back.

Locking the account when they are not 100% sure is not necessarily a confiscation, it can also be a player protection measure to prevent them from making further bets when the legitimacy of their account is in question. If proved innocent, their account can be unlocked and the disputed winnings withdrawn.

Accredited casinos should have a policy of locking player accounts to prevent further play when there are sufficient doubts about the legitimacy of said account that would cause refusal of a withdrawal.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
My main gripe is the failure to lock the OP's account pending the outstanding matters being cleared up. This is surely plain wrong, as it would allow further play at a time when CWC were not sure whether this was a legitimate player.

Whilst we only have the OP's side, it is a tale of trying to clear things up, but being stonewalled until he went public. What advice could you give to the OP that CWC management could not for 6 months that would enable progress to have been made.

I am not saying the OP is innocent, just that it seems CWC have allowed this issue to stall whilst there was no publicity, but when he posts, all of a sudden managers are no longer tied up in eternal meetings and are able to send out an email, even if it is one to say bring a PAB.

Unless they were 100% sure to start with that this was fraud, they have dealt with the OP pretty badly when it seemed he knew of nowhere else to turn for help. Publicity does not change the facts, and if continued investigation does not change the opinion of CWC, then surely they should have made their determination months ago, and told the OP their payment would not be made because there was strong evidence of fraud.

Casinos suffer fraud from players, but players suffer bad CS from many casinos, neither is right. This plays right into the hands of fraudsters, because their experience is hard to differentiate from plain bad CS. Pretending to a player that things are OK only make things look bad for the casino in the longer term.

Specifically, the OP withdrew, and was asked to send in documents. He was then told his documents had been approved, so he made a withdrawal. His withdrawal just kept getting put back into his account without explanation, and when he asked what the problem was, he got the "talk to the hand" response. As far as he was concerned, this was a case of bad CS. It doesn't seem that any further attempt was made over the next 6 months to get things cleared up, even though the OP was in regular communication with CS, and wanted to get things moving along. In all this time, he was free to log in and continue playing with the balance, which to me is the REALLY bad thing about this case, as so often players frustrated with such delays end up playing everything back, which makes the problem go away. Whilst players should remain patient over short term delays, it is unreasonable to expect a player to remain patient for 6 months whilst allowing the account to remain open and offering the temptation to play everything back.

Locking the account when they are not 100% sure is not necessarily a confiscation, it can also be a player protection measure to prevent them from making further bets when the legitimacy of their account is in question. If proved innocent, their account can be unlocked and the disputed winnings withdrawn.

Accredited casinos should have a policy of locking player accounts to prevent further play when there are sufficient doubts about the legitimacy of said account that would cause refusal of a withdrawal.

.....and I'm almost certain that, had the account been locked previously, you would be saying something along the lines of "CWC had no right to block the OPs account without sufficient evidence. In the courts of the UK, one is innocent until proven otherwise etc etc" but in a far longer paragraph.

I'm not sure what happened to the VWM that used to provide a balanced view on issues, but he is sorely missed.
 

Pocketdiggers77

Gamester
Joined
May 9, 2006
Location
On Top of Old Smokey
This had player fraud written all over it. No one is that cool and calculated when they are owed $7K for six months, unless they don't really expect to get the money. Nice try Appl3pye. :D Good going Casinomeister.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
.....and I'm almost certain that, had the account been locked previously, you would be saying something along the lines of "CWC had no right to block the OPs account without sufficient evidence. In the courts of the UK, one is innocent until proven otherwise etc etc" but in a far longer paragraph.

I'm not sure what happened to the VWM that used to provide a balanced view on issues, but he is sorely missed.

It would be a temporary block, not a permanent one, purely to stop the player playing away the balance in frustration at the delays, which seems to happen quite a few times, with it often turning out to be poor CS on the part of the casino, but with the player having played everything to zero in the meantime, it means the casino gains a handsome profit for it's poor service.

I can't believe they sat back for 6 months when they had this level of doubt about this player and allowed him to continue gambling. It seems he withdrew (having been told the documents were OK), and every time the withdrawal was put back into his account without further explanation. Every attempt by the OP to find out what was wrong was met with "we'll get back to you", which the OP claims they never did over a period of 6 months.

They should have been actively seeking a quick resolution to this, and if the player dragged their feet, they should have locked the account to encourage progress, rather than further play. At the very least, the player should have been provided with a clear statement of deadlock long before 6 months had elapsed, and a list of mediation services that he could use.

What if the OP had never found CM at all, and had nothing but the internal complaints procedure? How long would it have taken for a final decision either way to have been reached.

Far from being "cool", the OP kept pestering CS. What the OP did NOT do was make the issue public until now, perhaps because he was being fooled into believing that the promise to have a manager phone back was made in good faith, rather than the pretty obvious stonewalling tactic it turned out to be. To say that keeping such a dispute out of the public eye amounts to "suspicious behaviour" suggests that the opposite is true, and that players would look more genuine if they "shot first, and asked questions later" by going into a public arena with an issue after giving the casino barely enough time to deal with things internally.

Ideally, the internal procedures should have been sufficient for at least a final determination to have been made more quickly. eCogra, in their eGap standards, say that operators should be granted 14 days to resolve an issue internally before they will get involved. Although not a member, such a timescale should be considered as "industry best practice" by CWC, and used as it's own internal standards, even though no-one is around to enforce it other than CDS and the Costa Rican government.

Had CWC been an eCogra member, the OP would not have had to wait more than a month to be told he was a fraud, or that he would receive payment.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
My main gripe is the failure to lock the OP's account pending the outstanding matters being cleared up.

In which case I suggest you say so and stick with that. The rest of your derisive commentary -- "It looks to me like a pointless exercise", etc -- is unfounded and uncalled for. I put it to you that it's just a lot of blustery, long-winded hot air and who needs that?

What advice could you give to the OP that CWC management could not for 6 months that would enable progress to have been made.

:mad: Are you having a bad day or are you being intentionally obtuse for the sake of drama? The whole purpose of the PAB process -- as you well know -- is for us to bring an unbiased perspective to the OP's case and to prod the issue toward some kind of resolution.

In this particular case the OP has done a number of things that ignore and/or obstruct the basic requirements of allowing the casino to properly verify his identity. I have made it clear to the OP that his case is DOA until he cooperates more fully with the casino. If the OP has inadvertently fouled things up then he now has a clear path ahead of him to fix that, with the weight of the PAB process behind him. If his actions were intentional and/or he is unwilling to cooperate then he's only got himself to blame.

I'd say I've done a damn sight more to expedite the OP's case than huff and puff and make a lot of spurious accusations which is largely what you seem to have contributed here. I suggest you'd do well to show a little more respect to your host and pay somewhat less attention to the sound of your own voice.

As to the six month issue it so happens that I agree, that does bear looking into. I'll take that to the casino management to see what I can turn up.
 
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