Affy Program Bellfruit Casino AVOID!

[dunover]

DO NOT PROMOTE Bellfruit Casino. YOU WILL BE RIPPED-OFF!!

Affiliates beware, I have never heard of anything so batshit crazy. Read this chat and weep.

(Apparently if you deposit £100 cash through me and lose it, at 25% I'd get a fraction of 3 quid...lol)
(Apparently too if you deposit £100 cash through me and have a long session and turn it over say 200 times, I'd earn more than you deposited!)

The chat started as I was doing my end-of-month round-up and couldn't see any commission earned figures ANYWHERE in the interface, only tortuous access to a crappy document listing deposits/w/d's. She told me by e-mail the interface 'has issues they are trying to fix' but it has been like it for weeks!



[15:24:43] Chiara M: Hello D
[15:24:51] D: hi
[15:25:12] D: Yes, just having a bit of aggro with the interface Thanks
[15:25:52] Chiara M: yes I have had a look at your account
[15:25:59] Chiara M: your account had still not been approved
[15:26:22] Chiara M: so you were advertising without a deal connected to the account
[15:26:47] Chiara M: however, what I did, this morning I have requested to activate 25%RS deal on your past players
[15:26:57] D: that's odd! I've NEVER been able to access any account interface that hadn't already been approved!
[15:27:13] Chiara M: I am speaking in terms of deal
[15:28:03] Chiara M: as mentioned, the problem will be solved, and I will now change your deal to 35%RS for palyers moving forward
[15:29:33] Chiara M: your deal is not active on your account
[15:29:55] Chiara M: now*
[15:30:20] D: OK thanks 35% is OK, just to clarify about revenue already generated for my existing players up until now - where can I see it, and I assume the account is now approved? This is odd as no other affiliate site allows you to generate tagged links or even access the interface unless you'd already been approved!
[15:32:02] Chiara M: you could operate, but a deal was not negotiated. This is due to recent changes. anyways I have tried my best to solve them problem. Once the past players have been changed to 25%RS , you will start seeing the revenues,but from now on you will be able to start seeing the revenues of the future players moving forward
[15:33:15] D: OK, so I will be paid 25% on revenues from May in other words? You pay twice a month too?
[15:33:54] Chiara M: for the past players 25%, for the new players 35%
[15:34:33] Chiara M: should have been less confusing if I kept the deal to 25% but in order to incentivize you i offered 35% for the new players from today on lets say
[15:35:46] D: No, I fully understand what you've done, I am just referring to the 25% payment in respect of income already generated from opening my account, up until now.
[15:37:02] Chiara M: your share is calculated from the net margin
[15:37:14] Chiara M: at the moment the net margin you have generated is 10gbp
[15:38:14] D: 10 quid?? there seems to have been over 600 pounds of deposits and nobody seems to have withdrawn anything
[15:38:53] Chiara M: revenues are calculated on what players play no on how much they deposit
[15:39:35] D: what they play?? explain please
[15:41:19] D: every other affiliate site pays me a percentage of net revenue, I.e. difference between deposits and withdrawals if positive.
[15:41:33] Chiara M: its the revenue played into the games
[15:42:48] D: Look, a player deposits 100 and loses it all, I get 25/35? Yes or no?
[15:43:09] Chiara M: no
[15:43:57] Chiara M: if a user plays 100 euros on book of ra, and the percentage payout of that game is 95%, we calculate the revenue on that 5%
[15:44:15] Chiara M: the revenue is 5% of that stake
[15:45:23] D: So please tell me this. A player deposits 100 pounds, plays only Book Of Ra and loses it all. How much of that 100 do I get?
[15:45:41] D: Assuming I'm on 25% commission.
[15:48:42] D: ?
[15:52:05] Chiara M: if he plays 100 of real money only (not touching any bonus money) the revenue would be roughly around 5GBP, then you have to less 20% tax, 5% handling fee (but these are based on certain figures) which gives you at this point -3GBP net margin which we then base your percentage on. However, please note that the player would have 100 Euro bonus money which would impact both the revenue, and also we deduct converted bonus.
[15:52:36] Chiara M: if you want I can give you a voucher so that you can try the casino
[15:54:20] D: Is that some kind of a joke? 100 quid net revenue from a cash no-bonus player for you, and I get -3 pounds at 25%
[15:54:31] D: minus 3 pounds?
[15:55:25] D: or in your scenario I get 25% of £3 is that what you are saying?
[15:56:16] Chiara M: this is how our system works
[15:57:15] Chiara M: and please I can ensure you that we work with many partners
[15:57:36] Chiara M: as I said if you want I can give you a voucher to utilize
[15:57:42] Chiara M: so that you can run a test
[15:59:07] D: I think either you have made a mistake here or this is the absolute worst affiliate program in existence. Just to clarify, assuming no bonus, how much would a player have to deposit and lose for me to earn £100 Last question!
[16:00:32] Chiara M: its not a case of losing! we do not factor loosing but stakes
[16:00:50] Chiara M: you would earn by the user playing, winning or losing
[16:01:27] Chiara M: of course if they win, the user would have more funds to play and drive this up
[16:01:53] Chiara M: if you want i can offer you a voucher
[16:03:21] D: Well I think you've told me all I need to know. I do know there have been well over 600 quid of lost deposits made through my site, and at 25% I have earned £10!!!! On any other program this would be 150 earned assuming no bonus.
[16:06:31] Chiara M: we are not a bank, users can withdraw, so we base it on what users play
[16:06:37] Chiara M: thats the scope
[16:07:15] D: Also with your calculations, if a player deposits say 100 quid, no bonus, and has a good run and turns it over 1000 times I would end up with far MORE commission than the player actually deposited!!
[16:07:36] Chiara M: I now have to go
[16:07:39] D: This is what I cannot grasp.
[16:07:42] Chiara M: please lets continue tomorrow
[16:08:23] D: OK , I think this ends now. Links removed. Please close this affiliate account.
[16:08:26] D: Bye
[16:09:45] Chiara M: ok as you wish
[16:10:01] Chiara M: if you ever want to try to test the account, I am always here




OK, rushing off to remove this crap from my site. ZOOOOOOM!!!!!!...............

 

[jetset]

Confusing as well as crazy....but reading that transcript I get the feeling that 'ChiaraM' is not that clued up.

Perhaps bumping it up to management would deliver a more cogent response (if you can be bothered at all after that call!)

 

[dunover]

Confusing as well as crazy....but reading that transcript I get the feeling that 'ChiaraM' is not that clued up.

Perhaps bumping it up to management would deliver a more cogent response (if you can be bothered at all after that call!)

I can't be bothered to be honest. I absolutely believe she is clueless and it cannot possibly be that bad a program, otherwise it would be unsaleable to affiliates.

The big clue that she is likely to be wrong is where I asked how much I'd earn from a £100 cash deposit, all spent. IF her statistics are correct, then it follows I get that 25% of £3 once ever time the player turns the £100 over, therefore should he turn it over in excess of approx. 130 times, I'd actually earn MORE than the £100 he deposited!

So, I have either got the worst affiliate programme in history, or a hopeless affiliate manager. Whichever, we won't be doing business.

 

[mattsgame]

That's a weird chat, quite confusing.

In saying that Dunover, Net Revenue is not as pure and simple as player loses $100 I get $25.

You need to check terms and conditions for what is being deducted (bonuses, licensing fees, handling fees, comps) most Net Revenue affiliate programs that say they are paying you 25% - 30% are actually only paying you between 11 - 15% (sometimes higher depending). Everyone's commission gets hammered by the casinos deductions.

I am not bashing Videoslots casino here just using them as an example from an affiliates point of view.

But because they treat their players so well with cashbacks, free spins, slots tournies etc and they all come off your Net Revenue it can leave you with about 5% total.

Someone else may explain it a bit better.

Also on this part:

[15:37:14] Chiara M: at the moment the net margin you have generated is 10gbp
[15:38:14] D: 10 quid?? there seems to have been over 600 pounds of deposits and nobody seems to have withdrawn anything

Can you see the deposits have disappeared? Players still may have a balance in their account they have not played yet.

 

[Nicola]

This was in our inbox this morning.

Out of 158 affiliates, they were the only one to have a problem with our business plans.

 

[dunover]

This was in our inbox this morning.

Out of 158 affiliates, they were the only one to have a problem with our business plans.

Well stick my link on your site, and once you've generated £275,000 in revenues for them I may get £70 chucked my way....

 

[dunover]

That's a weird chat, quite confusing.

In saying that Dunover, Net Revenue is not as pure and simple as player loses $100 I get $25.

You need to check terms and conditions for what is being deducted (bonuses, licensing fees, handling fees, comps) most Net Revenue affiliate programs that say they are paying you 25% - 30% are actually only paying you between 11 - 15% (sometimes higher depending). Everyone's commission gets hammered by the casinos deductions.

I am not bashing Videoslots casino here just using them as an example from an affiliates point of view.

But because they treat their players so well with cashbacks, free spins, slots tournies etc and they all come off your Net Revenue it can leave you with about 5% total.

Someone else may explain it a bit better.

Also on this part:

[15:37:14] Chiara M: at the moment the net margin you have generated is 10gbp
[15:38:14] D: 10 quid?? there seems to have been over 600 pounds of deposits and nobody seems to have withdrawn anything

Can you see the deposits have disappeared? Players still may have a balance in their account they have not played yet.

Yes, I am aware of deductions and how they work. Most of mine are 40-50% deals anyway at the moment, Bell Fruit was 25%. Yes, deposits have gone, lost weeks ago. Same players have re-deposited since 10's and 20's so cannot have left balances. No cash-outs made. If they think I will ever promote a site which pays me a net 1.67% on 600+ quid lost deposits, they are lunatics.

Nicola had a lucky escape. Funny they rejected her, yet accepted me. Then again she's got Betsson, and they refused me!

 

[dunover]

If you are in any doubt what a complete scam Bellfruit affiliates are then read this!

They don't work monthly, but do 15-day periods. You'll see a screenshot of how I managed to earn FUCK-ALL for the last 2 x 15-day periods!



On the left is the last 15 days (78 quid at the top), the right the preceding 15 days (361 quid at top). There were actually more lost deposits in the first 15-day period (the account is 6 weeks old approx.) which isn't shown as it shows only the most recent 2. Nobody has cashed out.

Now HOW THE F*CK can they be deducting tax, when I have not provided them with a UK tax number??? WHERE is this 'tax' going? What is its % rate, and WHO is receiving it?? It's 3/7 (about 42%) of the alleged net revenue!! I PAY MY TAX!

A FUCKING £46.50 'HANDLING FEE'?????????? WTF??? I could get 20 minutes 'handling' in a massage parlour for less than that!!!

It is obvious to anybody that this is the most dumb-assed, scamulous and absolute worst affiliate 'deal' in history and it's nearly impossible to earn from it, regardless of depositor losses. It's basically a spiral of deduction from a deduction from a deduction until there is FUCK-ALL left for the stupid twats like me who promoted them.

AVOID BELL FRUIT AFFILAITES LIKE A FART IN A DIVING SUIT!!

This program should be rogued IMO. It's outrageous shite - I am in tens of programmes and they are all pretty straightforward and open and honest and work in the same way without bogus deductions. This stands out as the utter filth it is. Luckily for them (if they're there) I am not going to the Amsterdam AC because one of us would likely be tasting canal water.

 

[Nicola]

Crazy, glad I didn't get accepted if that's the way they operate!

 

[dunover]

Crazy, glad I didn't get accepted if that's the way they operate!

Oh, and I forgot to mention - if you cross-reference the chat in the OP with those 'earnings'? You see that 35 quid that's left at the bottom right after the string of 'fees' taxes' and other BS deductions?

Yes! I get 35% of that!! Hence her saying in the chat I had earned a tenner or so. Utter madness.

If Bryan had said "Dunover, design a spoof page along the lines of Crapmeister.com for me but pertaining to affiliates instead and called www.crapfiliate.com.." I'd have nothing to do apart from simply upload my Bellfruit account html.......

I feel like PAB-ing TBH - not to get any money from them, but just to get a explanation of where this 'tax' goes, who receives it and an explanation of what they did as regards 'handling' for a total of £56.50.....

 

[conker]

I have seen this before at another affiliate program, although granted the other program (I think it was Casino Rewards) gave you the option to choosing this method or rev share.

Also with your calculations, if a player deposits say 100 quid, no bonus, and has a good run and turns it over 1000 times I would end up with far MORE commission than the player actually deposited!!

The clue is in this response. Basically you are not on a straight rev share deal, but rather a revenue based on turnover of the player(s). This is a common system used by land based casinos for calculating revenues, as it is hard to predict earnings when you have to factor in 'hit and run' players and random big wins/losses. I don't know exactly how it is calculated, but you will earn good money off your regular players who have big playing sessions (regardless or wins or losses), but you will make very little from your quick hit players that deposit, lose and leave.

I don't believe the chat moderator managed to articulate this properly, but I have a feeling this is what she was trying to tell you.

It still sucks, because players do not exhibit the same brand loyalty online as they do in land-based. Rather than giving up on them you might want to ask if your account can be changed to straight rev share.

 

[dunover]

I have seen this before at another affiliate program, although granted the other program (I think it was Casino Rewards) gave you the option to choosing this method or rev share.



The clue is in this response. Basically you are not on a straight rev share deal, but rather a revenue based on turnover of the player(s). This is a common system used by land based casinos for calculating revenues, as it is hard to predict earnings when you have to factor in 'hit and run' players and random big wins/losses. I don't know exactly how it is calculated, but you will earn good money off your regular players who have big playing sessions (regardless or wins or losses), but you will make very little from your quick hit players that deposit, lose and leave.

I don't believe the chat moderator managed to articulate this properly, but I have a feeling this is what she was trying to tell you.

It still sucks, because players do not exhibit the same brand loyalty online as they do in land-based. Rather than giving up on them you might want to ask if your account can be changed to straight rev share.

The thing in, what I want to know is:

To whom is this 'tax' going?
What are these extortionate 'fees' for?
Surely they must be obliged legally to provide commentary for this as would any pay advice.

 

[conker]

To whom is this 'tax' going?
What are these extortionate 'fees' for?
Surely they must be obliged legally to provide commentary for this as would any pay advice.

These other details I am not sure of and the fees especially appear preditory. The tax maybe linked to the UK PoC Gaming Tax, but that should only be on UK players.

Cannot find any details of Bell Fruit at Affiliate Guard Dog, so am assuming not many affiliates are promoting.

 

[lnspin]

They seem to be paying on percentage of turnover. Rewards affiliates pays the same way.. Called a wagershare model