WARNING Affiliates Who Target Problem Gamblers

But they aren't going to get sign ups from people searching those keywords, as all the casinos they advertise are on gamstop?
If it does attract hits like that, all the people are going to see is reasons why not to try to sign up anywhere.

Yeah I did think that, but if say someone gamstopped signed up through an affiliate link using a different email address etc.. to slip through the detection system and lose, does the affy still get paid?

Alternatively maybe it's just about getting the website's hit rate up, perhaps this helps their profile and the deals/contracts they can obtain from casinos etc...?

ps. I know next to nowt about the affiliate business
 
Yeah I did think that, but if say someone gamstopped signed up through an affiliate link using a different email address etc.. to slip through the detection system and lose, does the affy still get paid?

Alternatively maybe it's just about getting the website's hit rate up, perhaps this helps their profile and the deals/contracts they can obtain from casinos etc...?

ps. I know next to nowt about the affiliate business

Possibly, but then that shouldn't really be possible now with the pre deposit verification checks, and there does seem to have been a marked decrease in that type of complaint recently. Plus on rev share, if deposits are paid back then the affiliate com would be reduced by that amount.
Thats no different to someone finding this thread though, and deciding to sign up through a CM affiliate link using a fake name etc.
 
I'm not sure what the problem is there tbh, unless I've missed something it doesn't seem to list a single site that isn't on gamstop and specifically tells people not to try to get round it or use unlicensed casinos?

You did not miss anything. I apologize for my inattentiveness!

When I came across this article, I saw its introductory part (If you are tempted to find Casinos not on GAMSTOP, then read on) and that was enough for me... I thought it's this kind of article which tells site visitors bullshit like what are the benefits and advantages of playing in nongamstop casinos etc.

What I did not realise that "no gamstop casinos" became one of the high targeted keywords as every other dog started to create a piece of info on their sites on such subject trying to get a visitor. And many of them do it in an artful-crafty way!
 
Possibly, but then that shouldn't really be possible now with the pre deposit verification checks, and there does seem to have been a marked decrease in that type of complaint recently. Plus on rev share, if deposits are paid back then the affiliate com would be reduced by that amount.
Thats no different to someone finding this thread though, and deciding to sign up through a CM affiliate link using a fake name etc.

Maybe the proof of the pudding is when you type into google 'casinos not on gamstop', what sites come up, look at the content of each site and try and work out what is the purpose of their link, genuine information or cynical keywording... the one we are discussing comes up just underneath the actual gamstop site. With casino adverts actually embedded into the article rather than just at the side of the screen, makes me feel it is a cynical exercise.

Edit: ps. I wouldn't compare most of the affliate sites with CM, if this topic thread had casino adverts interspersed and running up the side, I wouldn't post here, I feel CM gets things about right. It is different, to be the same staff here would need to be deliberately posting keywords, simply for cynically getting higher up the google results for gamstop related searches.
 
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Alas a new torrent of filth has been detected. Exclusive shithole casinos. It makes you wanna weep.
xxx ... nongamstopcasinos.com/

Now they're even buying the f*cking domains. It gets worse.
:mad:
***…. bestuk.casino/not-on-gamstop/

Still 2 'reputable' casinos there, Volt and Cashmio

The worst thing about that site is that further down the page, it goes out of its way to assure the visitor that there are no problems with withdrawals from any of these casinos.,...
 
A quick update on this issue. I've followed-up contacting the few programs left on these sites that we work with that are still listed.

Sadly, a couple of the programs that we contacted originally had informed us that they disagree with our position that responsible programs should not be working with these affiliates, indicating that their opinion is that simply removing the content is sufficient. As such we have removed links to the following programs:

Shadow Affiliates (ShadowBet)
ZeePartners (Playzee)

TP
 
Since Roshteins little bombshell it seems all streamers have started ramping up the stakes

Nick Slots is now doing £10-£20 spins on CasinoEuro. Those videos/threads against them really went a long way....
 
Since Roshteins little bombshell it seems all streamers have started ramping up the stakes

Nick Slots is now doing £10-£20 spins on CasinoEuro. Those videos/threads against them really went a long way....
It’s ok he’s well up this year and can bet what he wants (his words) never worry about the idiots watching his stream who tries the same
 
No he's just straight up bored of low stakes (which is now £2 for them). He was playing £5 spins on Genie Megaways and was moaning because it was capped at a fiver (hence the boredom and wanting to play big stakes), within 2 minutes he'd quit the game and moved to Jammin Jars on £6 then £10

None of them give a f*** mate, if you don't like its a case "don't watch, go and watch someone else".... casinos wont kick them off their platforms either, to much money being made. hence the new found arrogance when dealing with "trolls" as we are now called.
 
Sadly, a couple of the programs that we contacted originally had informed us that they disagree with our position that responsible programs should not be working with these affiliates, indicating that their opinion is that simply removing the content is sufficient. As such we have removed links to the following programs:


Following-up on this - we're seeing a small number of programs expressing some discontent with canceling the account of one specific site. As such I've put together an article today detailing our position on this issue exactly -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


In short, we're taking a zero tolerance approach to this issue. The vast majority of operators have been quick to terminate relationships with these affiliates. As of the beginning of October ThePOGG will be Blacklisting operators who choose to prioritise their ongoing financial relationships with affiliates that have wantonly preyed on vulnerability over maintaining the moral integrity of their brand. Unlike previously where we only contacted the programs we work with, today I've audited all the involved sites and contacted all operators (barring the currently Blacklisted unlicensed problem operators) to ensure every program is aware (almost 80 operators) of what's been going on and has ample time to take appropriate action before October.

It's sad that for some operators it has had to come to an ultimatum of this nature.....

TP

P.S. I would like to say a special thanks to the team at Kindred who had this issue address literally within minutes of being contacted today.
 
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Following-up on this - we're seeing a small number of programs expressing some discontent with canceling the account of one specific site. As such I've put together an article today detailing our position on this issue exactly -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


In short, we're taking a zero tolerance approach to this issue. The vast majority of operators have been quick to terminate relationships with these affiliates. As of the beginning of October ThePOGG will be Blacklisting operators who choose to prioritise their ongoing financial relationships with affiliates that have wantonly preyed on vulnerability over maintaining the moral integrity of their brand. Unlike previously where we only contacted the programs we work with, today I've audited all the involved sites and contacted all operators (barring the currently Blacklisted unlicensed problem operators) to ensure every program is aware (almost 80 operators) of what's been going on and has ample time to take appropriate action before October.

It's sad that for some operators it has had to come to an ultimatum of this nature.....

TP

P.S. I would like to say a special thanks to the team at Kindred who had this issue address literally within minutes of being contacted today.

Thanks for the update! Its sometimes hard for me to see all the important info.

Well done for taking a zero tolerance policy! The average player salutes you!
 
Update:

With the October deadline approaching I followed-up with a large number of operators over the last week or so. Here are the operators that have successfully disengaged with these affiliates:

10Bet
Bet365
BGO
Branders Affiliates
Casino Calzone
Casumo
Energy Casino
Gate777
Ikibu
Karamba
Kindred (Unibet, Maria, Bingo.com, iGame)
L&L Europe
Mansion (SlotsHeaven)
MrQ
Play Frank

And here are the programs I have followed-up with so far:

888
Aha Partners
Betfair
Bethard
BigWin Affiliates
Blackspins
Bright Affiliates
Casino Heros
Chanz
Cheeky Riches
Dreamz
Dunder
EGO Affiliates
Ellmount
Excel
Expekt
Galaxy Affiliates
gan.com (Winstar)
GameOnPartners
Get Lucky
Global iGaming Affiliates
Goliath Casino
Guts
InTouch Partners
Ivy Affiliates
King Casino
Magic Red
Maxi Affiliates
Metal Casino
MrGreen
MrWin
MultiLotto
Onyx Affiliates
PAF
Party
Planet Fruity
PlayMillion
PlayUK
Prank Casino
RedSpins
River Affiliates (VegasCasino.com)
Rovert Affiliates
Royal Affiliates
Royal Panda
Slots Magic
Spin Fiesta
SuprAffs (NYSpins/Voodoo Dreams)
The Online Casino
TonyBet
TouchLucky
TurboVegas
Venture Affiliates
William Hill

The above list should not be read as an indicator of intent. Many of the programs have already stated their intention to terminate their relationship with the involved affiliates but are having issues getting some of the affs to remove their listings and others have only been contacted today as they were new additions to the list. A far smaller number have stated they don't see a problem with what's gone on as long as the affiliates stop and have stated their intention to continue to support these businesses. That smaller subset of names will be published in early October.

I'd like to say a personal thanks to those programs that have got on top of this already - it's great to see these operators really taking responsibility.

TP
 
Sadly, a new site has appeared, already kicked from one or two programmes (as confirmed by the person who contacted me with them).
The bestcasinos dot co.uk so definitely trying to attract UK Gamstop players, the scum.

Naturally sprinkled with 1668/JAZ scam sites from Alpha Interactive and Gametech etc. such as madame-nofucking-chance
:axeman:
 
Sadly, a new site has appeared, already kicked from one or two programmes (as confirmed by the person who contacted me with them).
The bestcasinos dot co.uk so definitely trying to attract UK Gamstop players, the scum.

Naturally sprinkled with 1668/JAZ scam sites from Alpha Interactive and Gametech etc. such as madame-nofucking-chance
:axeman:

Have you reported it to ASA mate? I got a response when I reported one a while back. They said they ask the hosts to remove them but they can't take further action as these sites are setup offshore.
 
Sadly, a new site has appeared, already kicked from one or two programmes (as confirmed by the person who contacted me with them).
The bestcasinos dot co.uk so definitely trying to attract UK Gamstop players, the scum.

Naturally sprinkled with 1668/JAZ scam sites from Alpha Interactive and Gametech etc. such as madame-nofucking-chance
:axeman:

just teh usual shite isn't it :(
 
It is long past time I posted an update on this issue and I will offer an apology for this being very late. There have been a number of other issues that have pulled my attention away from this matter over the last couple of months, but the blunt truth is that I have been putting this off as I consider our efforts on this front an unmitigated failure.

Cutting to the chase, the situation is that of the programs we contacted about this issue the majority either offered no response or what we feel is an inadequate response. Large swathes of the industry are taking the position that as long as the identified affiliate stops engaging in these marketing strategies, everything is a-o-k.

We have heard a lot of self-serving platitudes about redemption and rehabilitating wayward affiliates by showing them the right way to go about marketing. These could be laudable positions if it were not for two factors:

i) The site in question is a big player in the industry. The motivation behind wanting to rehabilitate this site, when no-one has questioned trying to rehabilitate any of the other smaller partners, is highly dubious.


ii) These affiliates engaged a clearly thought through strategy to target and exploit vulnerable persons. Malicious intent is not best dealt with via “rehabilitation”, nor would we ordinarily choose to give someone identified intentionally exploiting vulnerability access to the same vulnerable people again after “correcting their error”.

If a teacher is identified having an inappropriate relationship with a pupil, they do not get to teach again.

If a doctor is found touching patients in an inappropriate fashion, they are not allowed to practice further.

If a care worker if found to be financially exploiting the people they are employed to help they don’t get access to vulnerable people again.

But the attitude of this industry is that when a business partner is identified actively targeting gambling addicts, as long as they stop the identified actions there is no further reason for concern. In fact, they are to be considered a valued partner.






As long as the affiliate stops engaging in these practices, why should there be any further repercussions?

This is the question that has been asked again and again by those programs that would like to continue working with this affiliate. Their practices are compliant now so what is the problem?

The problem is one of cause and effect. By simply requiring the affiliate to stop ‘doing the bad thing’, it sets a precedent. That precedent is that you can do the bad thing and as long as you stop when you are caught there are no negative consequences for you. Drunk driving? No problem – when the police flag you over simply stop driving and wait till you sober up and everything is ok. Embezzling money from your employer? I am sure when they find out they will be happy for you to keep your job (and the money you took) as long as you stop. Cheating on your wife? Again there should be no negative consequences for you as long as you stop when she finds out.

In effect, this position makes the statement that every affiliate can now take a shot at this or a similar marketing strategy, cash in for a time, and simply stop when the problem practice is identified. All under the guise of shepherding wayward affiliates back to a position of compliance.

Open season has been declared on gambling addicts.



Money Talks

Sadly this issue has come to a head at the same time as other more fundamental problems with ThePOGG’s business structure have become apparent. Over the last couple of years we have invested a very significant amount of our revenue in the development of BetBlocker. This is money that was diverted from other activities that ensure that the business continues to receive traffic from various sources, but primarily search engines. The lack of investment in ThePOGG has resulted in a drop in search engine rankings, and consequently traffic, that started to become apparent in June of this year.

The relevance of weaker rankings to this conversation is one of influence. With weaker rankings for important search terms, operators are less inclined to worry what we have to say. My personal opinion on this is that it has directly impacted our ability to influence operators with regard to this matter. We have less clout than we did a few years ago. Ironically, as a group that has taken direct action to help problem gamblers we are now finding a by-product of our efforts is a weakened ability to affect change.

And that leaves us at an impasse. The simple truth is that if we look at the array of programs still listed on this site – remembering to take into account regional variations – the sheer number of programs precludes us from being able to take any meaningful action. And this does not take into account the ongoing monitoring involved in the game of whack-a-mole that has occurred in the last few months with programs that say they have terminated their relationship with the affiliate but keep appearing back in the listings.

To my mind, the response to this issue should have been clear and self-evident to every operator in the business – if you find one of your partners exploiting gambling addicts in this manner, you stop working with them. No ifs, no buts, this was not a ‘mistake’ – you terminate the relationship and put as much distance as you can between these activities and your brand. That however counted on the industry seeing past their wallets to make decisions based on principals - a clear misjudgement on my part.

Had the industry taken a strong and consistent stance on this issue word would quickly have spread within the industry and this would have been a non-issue. The offending parties would quickly have found themselves without respectable partners to work with.

Rather than finding a cooperative industry that saw the inherent dangers of allowing this practice to go unchallenged what we actually got back from many programs was disinterest or, more concerningly, active resistance to anything that would result in a loss of revenue.

If players were ever to question whether the online gambling industry was genuinely interested in protecting problem gamblers this issue provides solid grounds for contesting that the bottom line will trump any faux social concern for large swathes of the industry.

The above said it should still be noted that the programs previously mentioned did take action on this issue, showing that the apparent apathy for this issue was not by any means universal. These programs should be applauded for having the courage to stick by moral principles, demonstrating that for some Responsible Gambling means more than empty promises.



Setting things right

Another interesting interaction during this pantomime of denials of responsibility has purportedly been with the affiliate in question. One of the operators in question did look to engage a type of mediation between ourselves and the affiliate.

I need to be clear at this juncture that we never interacted with the affiliate directly, so everything said about this is what we were told was said. We cannot speak to the veracity of the communications between the operator and the affiliate.

The operator spoke to the affiliate who they report claims that they “did not make a cent out of the article in question, as it did not rank high and for that reason never got organic traffic”. Alongside this we were told that they offered to make a donation of £1.5k to a UK based Responsible Gambling charity to redress this issue. This is certainly an interesting claim and offer combo and if it could be verified via data may have influenced our position on this issue.

Sadly it was not to be.

The claim of zero organic traffic was not one that the affiliate were prepared to back-up with Google Analytics data. It also fails to take into account traffic landing on this page from other sources. Saying that the only manner in which vulnerable persons could have been damaged by this content is via organic search traffic ignores the high traffic nature of the site in general and the fact that this page is a page that was prominently linked up in the main menu of their site. Traffic landing anywhere on the site from any source was never more than one click away from the offending content.

And the offer of a donation was not unqualified either. The donation was to be made on the basis that we remove mention of this affiliate from our previous article on this issue (effectively expunging history for the affiliate) and inform those programs that had terminated their relationships with this affiliate that the affiliate had “taken the responsible actions to be a compliant guide going forward.”

So we have an argument that fail basic scrutiny, that even were we to accept it as reasonable could not be qualified as accurate with any data, and an offer of a charitable donation that requires us to take actions to restore beneficial financial relationships for the affiliate that would likely be worth more than the donation. Given the quantifiers placed throughout this offer it is hard to view it as anything less than cynical.

All of the above said about the conditions on the donation I do need to be clear that we would have happily agreed to this arrangement if the data could have been verified. If minimal UK traffic could be shown to ever have landed on that page then the likelihood of harm to vulnerable players would have likewise been minimal.




-----------------------------------------------------


All in all this is one of the saddest episodes I’ve seen in the gambling industry and I think it will be far from the last of this nature given the lack of any actual consequences for the culprits.

Some days it is very hard to muster any positivity about this industry.

TP
 
This is sad, the whole business. If the attempt for demarcation between unethical rogue affiliates and hitherto reputable casinos has ultimately failed, then the whole industry is completely broken.

Money is clearly getting in the way of morals.
 
Lets hope ukgc and other licence authorities hit the unserious affs harder and also slap the big casinos that affiliate with such in a proper way.

The correct thing is to cut all ties. If an affiliate is unethical regarding responsible gaming, how can a proper casino even trust him?
 
All in all this is one of the saddest episodes I’ve seen in the gambling industry and I think it will be far from the last of this nature given the lack of any actual consequences for the culprits.

Some days it is very hard to muster any positivity about this industry.

TP

Thanks for the update and the hard work you are putting behind this. But to be honest, I am baffled that you are surprised by how this industry operates. Money corrupts people, simple and clear. Not all but a lot.

I've been in online gaming since 1998 and have seen what money does to people. Hence, I am not the least surprised. I also spent enough time with "insiders" and the way they talk about players told me enough about their morals and overall that of the entire industry
 
All in all this is one of the saddest episodes I’ve seen in the gambling industry and I think it will be far from the last of this nature given the lack of any actual consequences for the culprits.

Some days it is very hard to muster any positivity about this industry.

TP

Just thought I should have added a few more things.

You have been part of this "circus" for long enough just like me. Can you name one RG measure that the industry voluntarily introduced? A single one would be sufficient! :D

Or was it always under pressure from the regulators and even then it has been watered down to the absolute minimum via intense lobbying?

I got quite some heat in this thread when I was talking about "faux outrage". I still stand by my argument. Again, as I mentioned it does not apply to everyone but money will "corrupt" people, that is nothing new or surprising.
 

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