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Affiliates!!! The Good!!! The Bad And The Ugly

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by GGW Laurie, Aug 16, 2009.

    Aug 16, 2009
  1. GGW Laurie

    GGW Laurie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    In the Beautiful South !!
    Have you ever wondered what an Affiliate can do for you and just whats in it for them, after all no one does all this hard work without getting something out of this.

    I myself have used a few when clicking on banners for no deposit bonuses, to check out a new casino. I used to believe that if you used an affiliate you would most likely lose, this is not the case infact.

    It seems we are bombarded with emails, left and right, some of them just to stupid to understand, i would define them as the Ugly, someone not knowing or having the hard work and time invested, but merely buying email addys and sending , well crap is crap imo.

    The bad seem to be the ones that send out old promos and do not keep up with the latest in the gaming world, they send out not a few but many daily and use my all time favorite one i recieved "Our Casino Is Pregnant With Bonuses" good greif, how lame or just down right stupid or desperate will one become, well it did get my attention, i just hope no poor fool fell for it, so which brings me to the Good Affiliates..........

    How do we know we can trust them, is it by the gaming sites they have set up for us to veiw? I pretty much know who i can trust that are decent Affiliates on ths forum, some have invested alot of time and hard work and will take care of a player when in need of help, i have seen this happen on this very forum to often.

    So what makes a good Affiliate? I would love to hear from some of those great Affiliates, maybe a few Bad and Ugly Affiliates will tell why they promote some of these rogued casinos, but that may be reaching a bit to far.

    laurie
     
    12 people like this.
  2. Aug 16, 2009
  3. vegetagirl2008

    vegetagirl2008 Mafia Wars Level 472

    Occupation:
    No Job Here..
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York, United States
    For one a good affiliate will not promote rogue casinos in the first place. Second the affiliate has to take great care of their players if they themselves want to be treated the same way. For affiliates who promote rogue casinos are going to expect alot of hassle from players with non-payment issues and the like. Also some affiliates spam their promoted website a affiliate that does not promote rogue casinos will not.
     
    5 people like this.
  4. Aug 16, 2009
  5. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    This is my view of what an affiliate should do for you:

    1. Provide current information for you in one spot that lets you compare such things as bonuses, softwares, individual games, strategies and whatever else is of interest to you. Different players enjoy different aspects of playing, and somewhere there is an affiliate who thinks the same way you do. S/he will have your favorite site.

    2. Provide support should you encounter issues with a casino you signed up with through their site. That automatically causes the affiliate to only list good sites that s/he trusts to treat you right. A good affiliate has few if any player complaints to deal with because they don't promote dodgy places.

    3. Update information all the time. This is an easy task for a new site just starting out since it's small. For a big site, it's a full time job or maybe requires staff to help. For such big sites, this can only be maintained if it offers lots of interesting information - it takes a lot of consistent player support to generate enough funds to make this into a full time business or add staff. Affiliate income fluctuates right along with your winning and losing. So unless there are a lot of players happy enough to consistently support the site, winning and losing doesn't balance out and there will be many months without any income.

    4. Affiliates need to not only spend time researching the casinos and their offers, but they need to constantly monitor player message boards and affiliate message boards to identify rogues. Usually casinos that cheat one group will eventually screw the other one too, it's a character trait of the operator and not confined to players or affiliates. A crook is a crook.


    The bad and the ugly:

    When affiliates who have little experience build websites, they are lost. There is too much information to absorb all at once, and they often advertise rogue casinos without being aware. The lucky ones get called out at Meister or someplace and get a fast education. These new affiliates may mean well but just lack knowledge. More often than not this results in baptism by fire (like I said above, rogues are rogues and affiliates are screwed on a daily basis also) and the new sites die as fast as they are created.

    Then there are spammers, these folks could care less about individual players. They are in it for some quick money and players should NEVER click on an ad in unsolicited mail.

    And you have blackhat affiliates who are only in it for the quick buck and use any means to get to the top of the search engine. Usually that entails hurting everyone who gets in the way.

    How to tell a good site from a bad one, ask yourself the questions:

    Is the information here what I am looking for, and is it up to date?

    Is the site just a collection of ads (billboard site) or does it show that time was spent on researching and presenting facts?

    If I have an issue, can I find the owner for support?

    Does the site have a rogue section/blacklist?

    If all this looks good, bookmark the site and come back at a later time to check on updates to see if they have been made.

    Players can control which affiliate sites survive and which don't. A click is like a vote as to whether the site should be in business or not.

    The affiliate works for free always for the player, using an affiliate is positive for players if they find what they want on the site, and if the affiliate supports them. There are no drawbacks.

    The affiliate also works for free for the casinos until someone clicks on a link, so the bad ones tend to go out of business quite soon, only to be replaced by newer ones. There is an incredible turnover, many many people try their hand at it thinking it's easy money and soon realize it's hard work and quit. What players often don't know is that bonuses are deducted from affiliate revenues, as well as other operating expenses.

    If players use links at useful info sites and avoid clicking on links in spam or billboard sites the situation cleans up all by itself.

    Casinos don't put food on the affiliate's table, players do. Affiliates who don't get that soon go under.

    Another thing that affiliates often don't realize is that one needs to watch closely for winners. Casinos that don't have a good percentage of winners should be dropped even if not rogue. Who wants to play at a place where they can't win? In the long run places with lots of winner do better anyway, because everyone enjoys playing there.
     
    18 people like this.
  6. Aug 16, 2009
  7. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: I used to be an affiliate a long time ago when USA players could play anywhere. I only supported 1 Casino, that being Captain Cooks. I had no expierience prior to this, only having played online, and mostly at this same Casino. I chose them for 2 reasons....

    1. They had no Chargebacks, or negative income balances. Either you made money, %30, of players losses, or you made/lost $0 on players winning. imhop, It is kind of hard to promote a Casino, and say, "Good Luck to you, i hope you Win", When you will not make any money unless they lose, and would actualy lose money if they did indeed win.

    2. imhop, and i did, the Affiliate needs to be playing at the Casino they are promoting. So it becomes, "Do as I do, and not just Do as I say".

    Saying, "They pay out fast", is one thing. Posting a winner screen shot, the withdraw banking screen shot/w date of request, and posting the picture of the Check in your hand and the date it arrived, IS A MUCH BETTER THING. A Picture really is worth a thousand words.

    Also, the more information you provide, the better. To many affilates, ASUME. They think everyone is only a slot's player, and knows all the deposit/withdraw methods, and all about bonuses, and all they need to do is point them to one of their Casino's.

    The worst thing you can do is just flat out LIE. On my main e mail account, some Affilate sends me e mails a few times a week. They are all pretty much the same.
    Hi, I am on my way out the door, but.....................
    "I" got the Casino to give you this Bonus.....but you must hurry...........
    Look at all these bonus offers...........they wont last long..........
    The Bonus was cancelled, but, I, got them to reinstae it for today only.....
    and so on.

    It is kind of like the old tv commercial of the guy in his studio apartment, by the railroad tracks calling you and saying, "Hi, boy do i have a Hot Stock for you".........If it is so damn hot, WHY DON'T YOU BUY IT"....hehehe

    In a few months i will be moving oversea's, and will become an affiliate again. I will be spamming.........ummmm i mean bombarding your e mails...........ummmmmm i mean trolling message boards...........ummmmm i mean ......?????????? hehehehe, Weeeeeeeeee.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Aug 16, 2009
  9. mojo

    mojo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    East Coast
    Dom pretty much covered it all.

    The way I see it, affiliates should always be reachable. They should have a contact button and/or forum for players to go to. If a player needs help, it should not matter whose banner they loaded the casino from. An affiliate worth their salt will go to bat and at least get to the bottom of an issue and not be concerned with whose banner you are from.

    Another thing to note is that affs point of contact is the Affiliate Manager, not the casino manager. This is the first place we go when a player issue arises. We can usually sort it out there. If not, we can certainly take it further. If I've done everything I can to no avail, then it's time to get the big dogs in so I recommend CM. If a player is right, we never quit.

    Personally, I think it helps if an aff is or has been a player too. They know what the norm cashout is, and can spot problems pretty quickly.

    Bottom line is affiliates that care about their name and fair gaming last through everything thrown at us. An affiliates good name is really all we have in this tough TOUGH biz.
     
    5 people like this.
  10. Aug 16, 2009
  11. GGW Laurie

    GGW Laurie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed
    Location:
    In the Beautiful South !!
    This is my problem with the Bad and Ugly Affiliates, we have so many new forum members here who may be new to online gambling, they might get an email one day from one of these Rogue Promoting Affiliates and bing bang boom, they end up playing at some of those Rogue casinos and then they soon end up here on casinomeister, not knowing whom to turn to and how to get their winnings.

    Thanks for the awesome posts so far Affiliates, i didnt really expect any of the ones that promote the Rogues to come on here and post, but did you either?.................laurie
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Aug 16, 2009
  13. mojo

    mojo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    East Coast
    Good thread btw lauriejim. :thumbsup:

    There is a way to fight the spam. Affiliate programs have a strict no spam policy we all agree with when we sign up. Spam can be reported there. You can forward your email to whichever casino is being promoted and they can get the affiliates account name by the banner tag in the mail. Then the norm is to write the affiliate and tell them to knock it off. If the affiilate still receives complaints, they can get their affiliate account shut down.

    Some of the less desirable programs won't care but it could certainly fill up their mailbox. :lolup:
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Aug 16, 2009
  15. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    Thank You Laurie great post to ask.(The Affiliates)
    I think Dom,Mojo,Love2winalot,Vegetagirl2008 summed it up here.
    But I have to say some players have told me some Affiliates ask for a % of the money the casino owes them.
    I think that is crazy for anyone to ask someone.
    Just help them out for nothing.
    I even helped people that never joined anything by me.
    It like my saying "People Helping People"
    Never put that nasty word of Greed on your mind and help all that needs it For Nothing.
    If you tell me this or that is no good I will pull it in a heart beat.Just like that last eposode of that shady thing Irish Luck pulled on the players.
    That spam email all I have to say to them go &%$# off
    We all have to work together.
    ~T~
     
    6 people like this.
  16. Aug 16, 2009
  17. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
     
    16 people like this.
  18. Aug 16, 2009
  19. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    Great post, Rob!

    The best affiliates are players who decided that they cannot find the type of info online that they feel they would benefit from most. So they went about creating a site around it.

    I remember when I started playing I was grateful to find a site that sorted their banners by software. At least I could figure out what the games would be like. The site was nothing but banners....

    There was hardly any info available on anything back then. Things have come a long way since then - one can find answers to most any gambling related questions online and there are sites organizing things in all kinds of different ways, so one can always find one that is centered around one's own personal interests.

    You have to consider that all the info out there is put up by affiliates - and no one can afford to do all that work for free. If affiliates all went out of business, there would be no one but the casinos providing info - and there would be no way at all to tell who to trust and who is rogue.
     
    7 people like this.
  20. Aug 17, 2009
  21. mojo

    mojo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    East Coast
    Great stuff!

    I would like to take it one step further for my fellow affiliates.

    What happens when a great casino comes along with no affiliate program?

    For example, a new casino comes out called THE BEST EVER CASINO IN THE WORLD. And it is. Would affiliates put them on their sites? Even though they can't make a dime. Players should know right?

    I have asked myself this question recently because my partner brought it up and I didn't have an answer!
     
  22. Aug 17, 2009
  23. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Hey Bugger,

    I dont have too much experience with affiliates. However,is it inappropriate in this field to have a structure where players actually get a cashback or something like that for the losses incurred at the casinos they signed thru the affiliates?
     
  24. Aug 17, 2009
  25. mojo

    mojo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    East Coast
    I have to admit I am completely lost on this. Huh? I hope that doesn't mean what I think it does. Otherwise name the aff an we will go kick their azz! :lolup:
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Aug 17, 2009
  27. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Hiya: What about on the other hand? Instead of an Affiliate asking for a % of your winnings, has anyone ever heard of an Affiliate giving back a % of a players losses?
    Deposit $1000. Lose. Affiliate gets 30% = $300, and gives $100 back to the player. And if they were part of an Casino that does the same thing, gives back 10% if you lose your bankroll, now the player would end up with 20% back.

    This would, in the long run, end up being more profitable for the Affiliate.
     
  28. Aug 17, 2009
  29. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    You would be surprised how many affiliates will promote anything they can make a quick buck on. For example, pharmaceuticals - I would be willing to bet that less than 1% of these affiliates actually use the products they promote!

    I daresay that less than 10% of online gambling affiliates really know the products they promote - so it is important for a player to get second opinions on any recommendation, except for a few very trustworthy and well-known sites (cough cough!).

    On the other hand, I also daresay that less than 10% of online casino operators have a clue what they're doing. And very few actually deliver top-notch service (ahem ahem!).
     
    4 people like this.
  30. Aug 17, 2009
  31. ultra100

    ultra100 Meister Minion MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Sport, Aff.
    Location:
    Europe
    I haven't heard for the others, but I have recently launched cashback program, where I (as an affiliate) give back % of players losses.

    It's a win-win situation for both affiliate and players. Its a great insensitive for the players as they get extra $$$ for their bad months. On the other side, affiliate could attract more players and reach higher players base.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Aug 17, 2009
  33. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    If the persons that like to give the reasons why they want a % back from the player please tell us all.It's not my business what they do.and the player has the right to say No Thank You to them on them terms.I myself would never pay for that kinda help.
    On that cash back I say all should offer it :lolup:
    Nothing wrong with that.If the casino's do it why not the affiliates.
    ~T~
     
  34. Aug 17, 2009
  35. Poker Keep

    Poker Keep Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmaster/Affiliate
    Location:
    Canada
    Important thread for my first CM post...

    I only promote poker and have been doing so for several years. I stick to poker cuz that's what I know, I was a player long before becoming an affiliate. It's my policy to only promote rooms I've played on.

    Education
    Although this is my first post on CM, I'm pretty well known in the affiliate community. Search GPWA, PAL, AGD, and the other webmaster forums, you'll find I'm quite active. I spend several hours a day on the forums, mostly reading up on the latest news, views and complaints about casinos and poker rooms. In fact, I drop into CM on a regular basis even though I don't participate regularly. I feel that an educated affiliate is a smart affiliate! Keeping my players informed and up to date on the good and bad things going on in the industry is part of my job. I want happy players!

    Kickbacks
    Someone earlier in this thread discussed giving some of our commission back to the players. In poker, this is commonly done through "rakeback". Rakeback is a touchy subject among affiliates because it cuts profit margins and some say it promotes abuse by affiliates and players. I won't get into that discussion here but suffice it to say that some networks allow and police this type of player incentive while others don't allow it. I do offer rakeback when It's allowed, I believe it helps my business to retain higher value, long term players. I'm not sure whether casinos even allow this type of promotion...?

    What makes a great affiliate?
    I believe a great affiliate is one who puts the player first.

    A great affiliate:
    * Only promotes sites with player friendly T& C's.
    * Researches and only promotes sites that have a proven track record.
    * Lists sites that offer safe deposit and withdrawal options for all players, regardless of which country they're from. It's ridiculous when a player can deposit but can't withdraw!
    * Acts as an advocate for the player regardless of what affiliate site the player signed up under.
    * Provides value for the player through bonuses, rakeback, or some other means.
    * Provides educational materials. Either strategy articles, blog posts or editorial comment that helps the player make informed decisions either in game play or casino/poker room selection.
    * Provides a black list of rogue sites and is willing to add a room to that list even when it hurts the profit margin!

    I could go on forever....

    BTW - it's good to be here and finally making a contribution.


    Terry aka "Poker Keep"
     
    7 people like this.
  36. Aug 17, 2009
  37. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    An affiliate has to get special permission from the affiliate program for that, and it is rarely given. Most T&Cs state this to be forbidden.

    The reason is that this can easily be a base for affiliate fraud - I won't exlain how that works because doubtlessly someone will read it and pick up on the idea.

    Both player fraud and affiliate fraud hurt all of us and are the reason for all these silly WRs and a lot of convoluted T&Cs.

    BTW the math above isn't quite right - if the aff were to get 30% it would be minus bonuses and casino operating expenses... affiliates pay for the bonuses already. Then you add in server costs, bandwidth, domains and software fees and what have you. In most cases there is precious little left to pay a nominal fee per hour of work for the aff. Additionally, aff payouts take pretty much a month these days, so most affiliates would have to pay incentives long before they get paid themselves. Hell breaks lose if the aff doesn't have the money... and the aff has zero control over that.

    In poker that has been done for a long time in the form of rake back. Most of this is handled through the poker room now and not the affiliate. The Room just deducts it from affiliate pay when payday comes around. That is much more manageable.

    In any case, the great majority of casinos will not allow affiliates to incentivise play.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Aug 17, 2009
  39. love2winalot

    love2winalot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Roulette Player
    Location:
    Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
    Devil Advocate

    Hiya: I will try to answer the question of How/Why an Affilate would ask for a % of a players winnings be given to him. I am going to use a very old example, as it is easier to explain.

    Player joins a Casino, Get Bonus, learns how to protect the Bonus, and makes a Profit ALMOST ALL THE TIME.

    This same player now becomes an Affilate, builds a website, and creates a Walkthru on another url, on how to do what he did, and where at, and so on.

    The Affilate charges a FEE for this Information, and knows that asking for the Fee upfront will just be a waste of time, and so instead charges a % of the almost always guarenteed profit.

    Old Example: "This no longer works". %100 match deposit Bonus, up to $500. All Games can be played to meet the play thru requirements. Play Roulette, Bet $250 each on Black, and Red.

    Or, flat bet xxx$ in BJ, unless you lose 3 in a row, and drop to table Min bet until losing streak ends, and go back to the large flat bet. and so on.
    Simply Put, the Affilate is Selling the Information on how to be a Bonus bagger, and make a steady profit from the Casino's.

    If the player Wins, he makes money off the Fee. If the player actually lost, he makes money from the Casino, via his affilate %. I have never actually heard or seen this done, but assume someone somewhere used to do this.
     

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