Bogus Complaint affiliate swindler gets caught

@Tiriley and Paul: It was late and I did not make myself crystal-clear. I really appreciate objective cricitism when it's due and I respect everyone who did that here. And it's true: betat seems to be very tidy when it comes to their customers.

I just wanted to clarify that we have a very unique climate here at the forum where players, affiliates, casino-reps and game developers are contributing. With impertinent scam the reps might only get more restrictive in their communication. I like to underline that with my statement.

But it's true Igor: Sometimes less is indeed more. I think most members quickly recognized that you did nothing wrong.
 
Haha, since this thread was started (and more so when OP said he lives in Malta and originally from the Netherlands), I've been thinking about a name starting with "A" - Albert, Assar, Angur.. but of course it's Arnie!

Arnie (Affgency) is an infamous poker affiliate scammer that's been involved in shady things for years, don't get near him in any business dealings EVER.

Good riddance CM!
 
I think the OP was not really after being able to play, but was trying to cajole, bully, and argue for the return of the initial €2300 (or was it €2250) played and lost. His failure to retrieve that money perhaps allows him to appreciate how others might have felt when they were on the wrong end of one of his "business transactions".

Unfortunately, in pursuing this lost cause in public, so much of what he hoped would stay fairly quiet has emerged, and this will probably cost him far more than €2300, but will at least save other players, affiliates, and even operators, from falling victim to "sharp business practice".
 
The part I'm confused about is where Bryan said he wanted to be a representative of mybet. What is his relation to mybet?

The deal probably was he would get credit from casino that every one that signs up threw here he will get a little something,

Probs told casino that he will work hes magic and get a load of sign ups,

By looking at them links the man has been around the block a few times, Glad that slotty done there homework, Now he gets to feel what its like losing money :)

In this case he lost it himself
 
i didnt take it as he wanted a refund. more like an explanation to why.... unfortunately casinos don't have to explain
 
i didnt take it as he wanted a refund. more like an explanation to why.... unfortunately casinos don't have to explain

His first post stated he didn't think we can keep his deposits with we do not KYC him. it was about the money ultimately and the entire thread was meant to exert some for of pressure (title and all - which i'm hoping mod will eventually change). Thankfully, Bryan acted quickly & we could sync up our information.

Regarding the explanation: no business can be forced to take your custom (from your Cable provider, onwards), and no business can be forced to explain why they choose not to offer a service. That said, it's rarely for no reason :)
 
He has absolutely zero affiliation with MyBet, it's confirmed.

Thank you clearing that up. I am sure the membership here that have accounts at MyBet feel much better now. I know I would if I was a MyBet customer. :)
 
His first post stated he didn't think we can keep his deposits with we do not KYC him. it was about the money ultimately and the entire thread was meant to exert some for of pressure (title and all - which i'm hoping mod will eventually change). Thankfully, Bryan acted quickly & we could sync up our information.

Regarding the explanation: no business can be forced to take your custom (from your Cable provider, onwards), and no business can be forced to explain why they choose not to offer a service. That said, it's rarely for no reason :)

well glad the case was closed in the end, i'm sure the experts here can smell the truth a mile away.
 
His first post stated he didn't think we can keep his deposits with we do not KYC him. it was about the money ultimately and the entire thread was meant to exert some for of pressure (title and all - which i'm hoping mod will eventually change). Thankfully, Bryan acted quickly & we could sync up our information.

Regarding the explanation: no business can be forced to take your custom (from your Cable provider, onwards), and no business can be forced to explain why they choose not to offer a service. That said, it's rarely for no reason :)

This is not necessarily the case in the politically correct landscape we have today. We had a Christian bakery who refused to produce a gay wedding cake for a customer found guilty of discrimination and fined. It's defence was basically the same as yours, it didn't have to provide a service it didn't want to. In this case, religious belief was cited as the reason, rather than "no reason". It happened because the customer didn't just take no for an answer and find another bakery, but sued in court. Businesses always have to bear this in mind when refusing to serve a customer, as some will see it as an opportunity to sue for unlawful discrimination, and there have been some pretty bizarre victories that make no sense at all, such as the above where the right to follow one's religious beliefs has to make way for the wants of a potential customer. This is likely to be a risk throughout the EU.
 
At the risk of being yelled at but I am going to say it this thread needs to be closed. Stick a fork in it, its done:(
 
His first post stated he didn't think we can keep his deposits with we do not KYC him. it was about the money ultimately and the entire thread was meant to exert some for of pressure (title and all - which i'm hoping mod will eventually change). Thankfully, Bryan acted quickly & we could sync up our information.

Regarding the explanation: no business can be forced to take your custom (from your Cable provider, onwards), and no business can be forced to explain why they choose not to offer a service. That said, it's rarely for no reason :)

At the minute the thread title should stand?

Unless there is a reason you closed he's account,

I think I know why it was done, But no out rite reason as yet,
 
At the minute the thread title should stand?

Unless there is a reason you closed he's account,

I think I know why it was done, But no out rite reason as yet,

He's given an outright reason - he doesn't want this player's business because of sketchy KYC documents and links that show that there is good chance he's defrauded other people. That, plus that the player has lied and withheld information on several occassions.
 
He's given an outright reason - he doesn't want this player's business because of sketchy KYC documents and links that show that there is good chance he's defrauded other people. That, plus that the player has lied and withheld information on several occassions.

Not to mention OP has at least two names and seems to move around quite a bit (probably trying to outrun fraud victims etc). I don't think you can get shadier than that.
 
This is not necessarily the case in the politically correct landscape we have today. We had a Christian bakery who refused to produce a gay wedding cake for a customer found guilty of discrimination and fined. It's defence was basically the same as yours, it didn't have to provide a service it didn't want to. In this case, religious belief was cited as the reason, rather than "no reason". It happened because the customer didn't just take no for an answer and find another bakery, but sued in court. Businesses always have to bear this in mind when refusing to serve a customer, as some will see it as an opportunity to sue for unlawful discrimination, and there have been some pretty bizarre victories that make no sense at all, such as the above where the right to follow one's religious beliefs has to make way for the wants of a potential customer. This is likely to be a risk throughout the EU.


This had nothing to do with driscrimination to why they closed the persons account, so these two issues are not the same.

Anna
 
This had nothing to do with driscrimination to why they closed the persons account, so these two issues are not the same.

Anna

Not in this case, but in the more general case a business can no longer have the absolute right to refuse service for "no reason", or indeed for a variety of reasons that are now deemed illegal. The problem with a "no reason" refusal is that it does not offer any information as to the legality of the refusal under discrimination laws. In addition, giving a specific reason (the wrong one) can also backfire, as in the case of the bakery. If, for example, the bakery had stated that it would not be able to have delivered this gay wedding cake on time as the reason for not taking the order, the customer may well have accepted this at face value and gone elsewhere. The real reason would not have been revealed, and hence no court case would have resulted.

One curious aspect of anti discrimination law is that the usual "innocent until proven guilty" is turned on it's head. It becomes the duty of the business to prove that it's reason for not accepting custom was not one that was outlawed under anti discrimination laws, and often a customer has an inbuilt advantage through simply being a member of a minority group deemed in need of protection, which is why this law is often seen as unfair, even if the underlying principle is accepted.
 
Not in this case, but in the more general case a business can no longer have the absolute right to refuse service for "no reason", or indeed for a variety of reasons that are now deemed illegal. The problem with a "no reason" refusal is that it does not offer any information as to the legality of the refusal under discrimination laws. In addition, giving a specific reason (the wrong one) can also backfire, as in the case of the bakery. If, for example, the bakery had stated that it would not be able to have delivered this gay wedding cake on time as the reason for not taking the order, the customer may well have accepted this at face value and gone elsewhere. The real reason would not have been revealed, and hence no court case would have resulted.

One curious aspect of anti discrimination law is that the usual "innocent until proven guilty" is turned on it's head. It becomes the duty of the business to prove that it's reason for not accepting custom was not one that was outlawed under anti discrimination laws, and often a customer has an inbuilt advantage through simply being a member of a minority group deemed in need of protection, which is why this law is often seen as unfair, even if the underlying principle is accepted.

I must of missed or forgot the post where the people from betat posted they have the right to close anybody's account for no reason. About the case you mentioned i doubt anyone would advise a person to sue someone if they didn't have evidence, seems like it would be a waste of time and money to me if they had no evidence.

Anna
 
I must of missed or forgot the post where the people from betat posted they have the right to close anybody's account for no reason. About the case you mentioned i doubt anyone would advise a person to sue someone if they didn't have evidence, seems like it would be a waste of time and money to me if they had no evidence.

Anna

This is the original quote from Betat:-

Regarding the explanation: no business can be forced to take your custom (from your Cable provider, onwards), and no business can be forced to explain why they choose not to offer a service. That said, it's rarely for no reason

This used to be the case, but then we had anti discrimination laws.

It probably started back in the 1960's and 1970's when signs saying "No coloureds, no dogs, no Irish" were often seen on guest houses, and they were perfectly legal. This was outlawed under racial discrimination laws. We then had discrimination based on gender outlawed. However, with the PC brigade in charge, we now have a multitude of minorities for people to claim to be a member of, and then cite as possible reasons why a business has refused them service. It is then up to the business to show that they refused service for a reason that is not outlawed if the potential customer accuses them of refusing service based on one of the protected categories. Because the burden of proof lies with the business, not the accuser, it's an easy law to abuse, as well as use for it's intended purpose. The bakery lost because it refused to serve a customer because of their sexual orientation (they were gay), because their religious views prevented them from supporting what they regarded as a "sin". It's because the customer was gay that they thought it worth while taking to court. If the customer was NOT gay, but simply wanted a cake that the bakery was not prepared to produce because of their religious views, the bakery would most likely have won, and the customer would probably have been advised not to embarrass themselves by losing in court. This is how the laws can actually give minorities "special treatment", usually because the business is advised by it's lawyers that it had better agree to the request or face the risk of defeat in a lawsuit.

I am not aware of this ever having been used as leverage in a dispute with an online casino, but it's just possible that one day this will bite them in the ass.

I can imagine a possible scenario where a casino might routinely allow "husband and wife" to both play from the same household, but refuse to accept a "husband and husband" as a legitimate couple in the same household. This is the kind of thing that could end up in court, and the casino losing, even though the reason was nothing to do with them being gay, and more to do with their risk assessment in determining whether such requests came from legitimate couples or two friends "trying it on" just to get two shots at the bonuses from one address. They can't insist on marriage certificates either, as this discriminates against non-married but otherwise legitimate couples.
Of course, casinos could simply have the inflexible one account rule for all, and avoid the minefield of their discretion backfiring when they say "no" to the "wrong couple".

I have already mentioned in the past that having terms that discriminate against certain countries might fall foul of race discrimination laws, but casinos are currently confident that using countries would not. In my argument, I am thinking more of the "indirect discrimination" aspect of the legislation, rather than obvious "direct discrimination". Indirect discrimination is where an otherwise legitimate rule has the indirect effect of applying more to a given race than another. This could be ruled as "indirect discrimination", and it's a provision that is often used.
The effect of such lawsuits is often to get monetary compensation, rather than force a business to accept a customer, a club a member, or an employer an employee. The prospect of compensation is often cited as the reason for many of the dafter cases making it to court, as often the person taking action has no desire to actually win the right they are fighting for, but rather they want some compensation as "revenge" for the perceived insult.
 
This is the original quote from Betat:-



This used to be the case, but then we had anti discrimination laws.

It probably started back in the 1960's and 1970's when signs saying "No coloureds, no dogs, no Irish" were often seen on guest houses, and they were perfectly legal. This was outlawed under racial discrimination laws. We then had discrimination based on gender outlawed. However, with the PC brigade in charge, we now have a multitude of minorities for people to claim to be a member of, and then cite as possible reasons why a business has refused them service. It is then up to the business to show that they refused service for a reason that is not outlawed if the potential customer accuses them of refusing service based on one of the protected categories. Because the burden of proof lies with the business, not the accuser, it's an easy law to abuse, as well as use for it's intended purpose. The bakery lost because it refused to serve a customer because of their sexual orientation (they were gay), because their religious views prevented them from supporting what they regarded as a "sin". It's because the customer was gay that they thought it worth while taking to court. If the customer was NOT gay, but simply wanted a cake that the bakery was not prepared to produce because of their religious views, the bakery would most likely have won, and the customer would probably have been advised not to embarrass themselves by losing in court. This is how the laws can actually give minorities "special treatment", usually because the business is advised by it's lawyers that it had better agree to the request or face the risk of defeat in a lawsuit.

I am not aware of this ever having been used as leverage in a dispute with an online casino, but it's just possible that one day this will bite them in the ass.

I can imagine a possible scenario where a casino might routinely allow "husband and wife" to both play from the same household, but refuse to accept a "husband and husband" as a legitimate couple in the same household. This is the kind of thing that could end up in court, and the casino losing, even though the reason was nothing to do with them being gay, and more to do with their risk assessment in determining whether such requests came from legitimate couples or two friends "trying it on" just to get two shots at the bonuses from one address. They can't insist on marriage certificates either, as this discriminates against non-married but otherwise legitimate couples.
Of course, casinos could simply have the inflexible one account rule for all, and avoid the minefield of their discretion backfiring when they say "no" to the "wrong couple".

I have already mentioned in the past that having terms that discriminate against certain countries might fall foul of race discrimination laws, but casinos are currently confident that using countries would not. In my argument, I am thinking more of the "indirect discrimination" aspect of the legislation, rather than obvious "direct discrimination". Indirect discrimination is where an otherwise legitimate rule has the indirect effect of applying more to a given race than another. This could be ruled as "indirect discrimination", and it's a provision that is often used.
The effect of such lawsuits is often to get monetary compensation, rather than force a business to accept a customer, a club a member, or an employer an employee. The prospect of compensation is often cited as the reason for many of the dafter cases making it to court, as often the person taking action has no desire to actually win the right they are fighting for, but rather they want some compensation as "revenge" for the perceived insult.

With gay people being able to get married in the UK it wouldn't suprise me if the case you mentioned that they was trying to order a wedding cake for their marriage because this issue is starting to pop up in Americia with some states legalizing gay marriage.

Anna
 
At the minute the thread title should stand?

Unless there is a reason you closed he's account,

I think I know why it was done, But no out rite reason as yet,

Multiple identities were reason enough - we did not need to state the reason directly to him, which was the point in this case. The truth eventually came out by his own doing.

If possible, id appreciate a change of title ("affiliate swindler gets caught" would be a perfect fit lol :) but if not, just as well

I'll bow out from vynils anti-racism angles. thankfully, we are within our legal rights to cease service, which we utilised in good measure, i hope.

Great weekend to all
 
I do agree the thread titled should be changed. I rather like "Slotty Vegas closed my account and I pushed them into revealing who I really am"

I don't agree the thread should be closed yet. I am more than content to continue this derail about the issue in more general terms. If this thread stays active and more people read it and learn about this rotten man, I think this is a good thing. I can't see anything that reflects poorly on Slotty Vegas or Bet-at in it.

edited because bet-at replied while I was still typing.

I would be very cautious about using language that implies criminal behaviour if there has not been a conviction. Neither CM nor BetAt would wish to leave themself open to a lawsuit. Dirtbag might do. But I like the element of mystery in my suggestion, to get people to read and follow up on the links.

end of edit

But I think if Bet-at wants it closed, then it should be closed.
How about having terms that say the casino reserves the right to close your account, and reserve the right to not cite the reason.

This covers aspects like suspected fraud or just that you feel someone is a PITA. Or doesn't deposit enough. Suspicion but no definitive proof they are part of a syndicate. You recognize the name as a notorious murderer. Here it is legal to discriminate against someone with a criminal record, I don't know what the UK laws are.

If challenged through legal channels, they will have to cite the reason.

If the player chooses to use a service like PAB where not all info is shared with the player, the casino if accredited here would have to provide the reason to Maxd.

At no time should they be expected or indeed probably should not share it in a public manner. Some casinos seem to think that simply being lucky and withdrawing is reason enough to close an account. Non bonus play and the player had an unsual streak of luck and the casino manager is so ill-informed that he believes the guy has a system that works. Perhaps he is already peddling his "PROVEN SYSTEM" that worked at casino XYZ.

We have all seen letters from casino managers (not too many from the reps at CM) that have just such ridiculous reasons cited. Often as a reason to withhold winnings from rogue casinos. It did these casinos no favours to be outed for this, even if winnings were paid and the player banned afterwards. They would have been wiser to not cite "you knew when the slot was in a hot cycle and raised your bets accordingly to take advantage of that". Oh, you mean I got lucky?

In this case, the OP really shot himself in the foot by insisting you reveal the reason. Guess it will be time to use a new name and a new alias again.

I do agree the thread titled should be changed. I rather like "Slotty Vegas closed my account and I pushed them into revealing who I really am"

I don't agree the thread should be closed yet. I am more than content to continue this derail about the issue in more general terms. If this thread stays active and more people read it and learn about this rotten man, I think this is a good thing. I can't see anything that reflects poorly on Slotty Vegas or Bet-at in it.

But I think if Bet-at wants it closed, then it should be closed.

If CM does fork it, I wouldn't mind seeing this derail from the OPs initial post continue in it's own thread.

Laws vary so much from country to country, even from State to State and in my case, Province to Province. We are most familiar with our own laws, or cases that appear in national news.
 
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Why are people arguing with BetAt about this? The guy had multiple identities and is a huge scammer.

You think that a scammer in the gambling industry should be allowed to play in their casino when there is a real possibility of chargebacks or some other kinds of scams?

They are protecting their interests.
 

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