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Affiliate program thought.

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by PeterBey, Jun 24, 2005.

    Jun 24, 2005
  1. PeterBey

    PeterBey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Genearal Manager
    Location:
    Moscow
    Bryan, how do you think an affiliate program based on a percentage of theoretical win would work for Affiliates and for Internet Casinos? There are a few poker rooms with this model but casinos seem to be pretty set on the revenue share or CPA models. As we all know the casinos operate fantastic businesses on thier hold percentages so, would Affiliates consider this a good business model too?

    PeterBey
     
  2. Jun 27, 2005
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I have no idea. How does one figure out "theoretical win"? It already sounds too complicated.
     
  4. Jun 27, 2005
  5. YuraK

    YuraK Webmaster webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Russia
    I think I know one casino that has such affprogram (it's Russian though). They offer up to 50% of wager*game house edge. House edge*wager is "theoretical win". You have to be pretty sure that casino doesn't cheat players to work under this conditions...
     
  6. Jun 28, 2005
  7. PeterBey

    PeterBey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Genearal Manager
    Location:
    Moscow
    Theoretical percentage is easy for a casino to work out but difficult to show to the public for games other than the usual suspects like Black Jack, Roulette, Poker, etc. Showing the return of some of the slots for example would certainly be difficult. The point here I suppose is transperancy, can the casinos make the system transperant enough?

    With that said though, in the current revenue share system how can the casinos make the players results transparent? From what I have read they have a problem with that called shaving.

    The real plus of a turnover based system would be steady results for affiliates. With win and loss not taken into consideration the affiliate will always earn as long as the player plays. No big wins by players wiping out losses from other players! Wouldn't that be appealing to affiliates?

    Yuri, Which Russian Internet Casinos use similar systems? Are they well advertised by affiliates?
     
  8. Jul 7, 2005
  9. YuraK

    YuraK Webmaster webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Russia
    I know only one - russiancasino.ru (I think they have English version too). I do not know how successful they are and BTW they do not offer bonuses, only tournaments.
     
  10. Jul 8, 2005
  11. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    Slotland has a simple solution that has made them and everyone happy for years. I don't know why others aren't picking up on it.

    They pay a % of deposits.

    Period.
     
  12. Aug 2, 2005
  13. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Ha ha ha.

    I think it's because they are the only casino that rips their players off with video poker games that aren't video poker games.

    A reputable casino that offers games that are fair to the player, not just profitable for you & the casino, such as Microgaming could not AFFORD to do this.
     
  14. Aug 2, 2005
  15. Randy

    Randy Webmaster

    Location:
    Wylie, TX
    I'd think that would depend on the percentage of the deposit that they paid out to their affiliates, wouldn't it? I'm sure that over 1000's of players, you could calculate your profitability figures and translate a CPA or a rev share deal into a percentage of deposits plan.

    I agree with Bryan about the percent of theoretical win though. Too complicated to be able to market it to webmasters effectively.
     
  16. Aug 2, 2005
  17. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    What nonsense!

    Slotland pays a much smaller percentage than Microgaming does.

    Slotland has no video poker games, it has slots.

    Microgaming too has a videopoker that is a slot. If I remember correctly.

    Microgaming pays us when you lose - I think that's gross! I would much rather have a smaller percentage and be paid per deposit. It keeps everything nice and simple and I don't profit from your losses.
     
  18. Aug 2, 2005
  19. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    If you are referring to Poker Pursuit, it is not a slot.
     
  20. Aug 2, 2005
  21. mary

    mary Dormant account

    In the case of Slotland, if the all their slots have an identical theoretical win then paying a % of deposits could also be thought of as a % of theoretical win.

    Paying affiliates based on theoretical win would be easy in terms of the math, but it would require keeping track of the games each player plays and adjusting the numbers in proportion. This is what land casinos do to calculate comps.

    Paying a % of losses is easier because from the casino side it should be the same in the end (as actual losses should equal the theoretical win), but the recordkeeping is much easier.

    On the affiliate side, it would even out earnings as big wins and big losses were shared by all affiliates--uncoupling affiliate payments from the luck of individual players.

    The other problem with the idea of paying on theoretical win is that it could lower affiliate payments for the games of video poker and blackjack. The theretical win on those could be considered the edge with perfect play (0.5%) or the average of most unskilled players (more like 3%). Getting paid on actual players losses means the affiliate is getting paid appropriately for the level of skill of the players that affiliate sends. Again, land casinos take skill into account when calculating comps.

    So, for a slot-bingo-keno-craps-roulette-baccarat only casino it could make sense. In the context of the games in which skill matters, it could be contentious.
     
  22. Aug 2, 2005
  23. PeterBey

    PeterBey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Genearal Manager
    Location:
    Moscow
    Hi Dominique,

    What do you think is so complicated about theoretical %? Players clubs all over the world use exactly this to give cash back, free F & B, hotel rooms, flights, etc. Junket punters insist on this percentage as an incentive to visit a casino. The online version is the current points systems available to players which seem to be a great marketing tool and effective in player satisfaction.

    In your average comp program, no players actually take the time to work out what gets them the best return in the house for thier action, they just play the games that they like, have a good time, go to the bar/restaurant to collect thier comps, get a discount coupon for their next trip, etc. It is a proven system that players like as there is a correlation between their play and the reward, the same would go for affiliates. The reward for passing a good player to the casino will be steady and directly related to the LONG TERM VALUE of that player and paid as such.

    Turnover is so transparent. It will help you over time to work out which casinos are really the best for you and your players!!! You will be able to workout the casinos real return to player without having to rely on the the casino publishing a PWC report. Now wouldn't that be cool!

    In answer to the idea of paying a % of deposits being 'thought of as a % of theoretical win' from Mary, sorry but it can't be. A deposit can be deposited, wagered a few time (not exhausted0 and cashed out. This player is clearly not as valuable as a player who turns the deposit over for hours and hours and cashes out the same amount. Why he/she isn't as valuable? He/she does not have the propensity to gamble as much as the first punter, that's it.

    Mary, keeping track of the games each player plays is easy and adjusting the numbers is also easy after all, as you say, the land based guys manage it ok. Where your logic doesn't translate to the online business is because the casino and the affiliates do not share the losses evenly.

    You do have a great point though about the level of skill, this would make a difference. Perhaps a 'Mug Punter Index' could be used there to even things out a bit! :) Jokes aside, it is an area of concern but I also think it will fade as online punters become more educated aobut which games to play and how to play them.

    PeterBey
     

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