Advice needed...

[Repro]

Part 1 of 2

Hey guys,

I've got an issue and i'm not sure how to handle it, so i hope to get your help on this!

I decided to finally signup on a Rival. Not that i trust them so much, but i wanted to check their games and software.

I took a 100% first deposit bonus and made a €25 deposit.

I started playing "Reel Crime 2: Art Heist", which is a slot with a "map". The idea is that the further you get into the story the more and better features you get. Also the reels have different symbols and payouts on each part of the story.

I made spins of €1,50 and stayed with those bets the whole time. My balance went from €30 to €80 and back all the time.

When i was very far in a part/scene - i needed one more scatter to finish it and get a (i assume big) payout - i busted out on my money (went down from €50 to €0 almost instantly ) and decided to do another €25 deposit to finish the scene. The deposit went through without any problems (no new bonus) and i returned to the game. At that moment there was an error message that something went wrong and i had to restart the game. My biggest fear came through and the map reset itself.

I contacted CS:


info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. You are currently placed in queue number 1. The average wait is 4seconds. An operator will be with you shortly.
info: You are now chatting with 'Nathan'
Nathan: Welcome to casino Live Chat. How may I help you?
Repro: Hi Nathan
Repro: I was playing "Reel Crime 2: Art Heist"
Repro: i ran out of money so i deposited. The deposit was accepted but then an erormessage appeared and the slot resetted itself
Nathan: May I have your Login name and email address please?
Repro: So the Gamemap was also reset
Repro: xxx
Repro: xxx
Nathan: One moment please.
Repro: and i was very far, so i don't like this
Nathan: One moment please.
Nathan: According to our record you were playing a bonus just now which you have completed. After it being completed you closed the game window which automatically resets the slot. Please also not that any progress you make with a slot during a bonus will not remain active once the bonus has been completed.
Nathan: it will reset the slot automatically.
Repro: ???????
Nathan: Since you've made a deposit, would you like me to claim the New Players: 100% Bonus ?
Repro: What on earth is the logic in that ???
Repro: no i won't
Nathan: Im sorry but that is how the system is setup.
Nathan: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Repro: And i've read nowhere that the slot would reset itself
Repro: that's just complete bull
Repro: i've redeposited BECAUSE i was at the end of a scene
Repro: thus a bonuspayout
Nathan: Im sorry. But as I said any progress you make during a bonus can only be played during the bonus that is active, once you complete a bonus the slot will rest and your progress will be reset.
Repro: Can you please show me where that's written in the T&C's ?
Repro: because i didn't find it
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxx at the end of your chat.
Nathan: Im sorry but its not written on our website I believe. This is just how the system is designed. I will make a note for management to see what they can add to the website in regards to this.
Repro: If it's not written in the T&C's it should be corrected for me
Repro: that game should be reinstated as it was before i redeposited
Nathan: Im sorry but that is not possible. As i stated above and progress made during a bonus will not remain intact after it has been completed.
Repro: In that case i want to be reimbursted for my initial €25 deposit and after i've made my withdrawal i want my account closed
Nathan: One moment please.
Nathan: I'd like to inform you that we normally do not issue refunds as a deposit must be wagered at least once, however, In your case I'd see if management would make an exception. Please go ahead and request a withdrawal for your last deposit and if approved funds will be returned back to your Neteller account.
Nathan: Im sorry for the inconvenience that this may have caused.
Repro: I'm afraid you don't understand...
Repro: The €25 is from a new deposit, which i'm want to withdraw TOGETHER with the €25 i want reimbursted for the technical problems i just mentioned
Repro: since you are not able to fix those problems my €25 INVESTMENT on the slot mentioned is gone
Repro: so i want to be reimbursted for that
Repro: the new deposit was to finish the bonusround on the slot, but due to a designflaw (which was mentioned NOWHERE) it reset.
Nathan: Im sorry but no technical problem has occurred, you simply busted out on the promotion which lead to the slots resetting back to the beginning in the story line. I will submit a request for the second deposit, but wont be able to guarantee you that the first one will be refunded and played funds are non refundable.
Repro: this way the new deposit was made for nothing
Repro: Where can i send a complaint to ?
Repro: Because this is just nonsence
Repro: I NEVER had something even REMOTELY like this on any of the other 15+ casino's i play
Nathan: You can send your complaint to: support@xxxcasino.com
Nathan: Im sorry to hear that, do keep in mind that each software provider has its own design and settings.
Repro: If it's mentioned nowhere it's not reasonable to bill this on the player
Repro: this i why i always read the T&C's
Nathan: Ok.
Nathan: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Repro: I assume you also forward this to management ?
Nathan: That is correct.
Repro: Can i expect to hear from them any time soon ? Or will they just ignore me on this ?
Nathan: Request like these can take anywhere from 24 to 48 hours.
Repro: No i meant my complaint
Nathan: But I have set a high priority on it so it should be looked at fairly soon.
Repro: Ok than i hope they respond very soon
Repro: because i'm very displeased
Nathan: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Repro: no thanks
Nathan: You are very welcome.
Nathan: Have a nice day.
Nathan: Thank you for using Live Support. Should you have any future questions, please contact us again.

End part 1

 

[Repro]

Part 2 of 2

After this i made my withdrawal, closed down the casino and never reopened it again.

I received an email from support quite fast:


Dear Frank,

Regrettably, I have to inform you that Nathan did inform you correctly
as to how our system is designed and works.

Reason for this is because people were abusing the system by claiming
bonuses and then getting their games into a spot where they were about
to pay out(exiting before free spins and i-Slot bonus rounds)and then
playing other games till their bonuses expired. Then depositing without
a bonus and finishing the big payouts. Unfortunately there is no way
around this.

I will have out webmaster update our website with the above stated
information to avoid and future confusion and issues.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact our support
staff.

Kind Regards,

Casino Manager

I responded to this:

Hi,

If you review my gameplay you will see that I didn’t try to "abuse" any
bonus (if that would be even possible, since it's a made-up term). You can
clearly see that the game was in a state at which I deemed it worthy of
doing another deposit to finish any upcoming features. If I would have known
this wasn't possible I'd most likely adjusted my gameplay earlier i.e. by
decreasing my bets.

To be fair, if I would have known that a bonus would be treated this way I
would never have deposited at your casino at all. I've read the T&C (regular
and bonus) and nothing was mentioned about this.

While it's a good thing that you add this on your site for future players, I
still feel cheated of my initial €25 deposit.

As stated before to Nathan I didn’t break any terms or did anything
irregular, so there is no reason I shouldn't get reimbursed for the deposit
mentioned. I take this very seriously, since I've never had anything even
REMOTELY like this on any casino I've ever played.

Please refund me the initial €25 and transfer this - along with my other
withdrawal of the 2nd €25 deposit - to my NETELLER. After this I'd like you
to close my account.

Kind regards,

Frank

After this i received an email that my withdrawal had been reversed, because i needed to wager it once. I responded on this that they had to read my emails, but i didn't receive another response off them.

I know this is a long story, but i hope to get some good advice from you guys !

I'll name the casino later, but for now i can say it's a Rival who - on itself - doesn't have bad reviews and is well known here.

Frank

 

[funeral979]

I would have to agree with the casino on this one. If the system allowed progress to continue on fresh (bonus free) deposits, it would be open to too much abuse. I could maybe see your point if you didn't collect a bonus on your initial deposit. That said, it probably should be mentioned in their T&C's.

I haven't played the I-Slots in awhile, but I don't think the reward is all that great in getting to the end anyhow.

Also, its a bit of a stretch to ask for your initial deposit back too....you gambled and lost it.

 

[rainmaker]

I would have to agree with the casino on this one. If the system allowed progress to continue on fresh (bonus free) deposits, it would be open to too much abuse. I could maybe see your point if you didn't collect a bonus on your initial deposit. That said, it probably should be mentioned in their T&C's.

I haven't played the I-Slots in awhile, but I don't think the reward is all that great in getting to the end anyhow.

Also, its a bit of a stretch to ask for your initial deposit back too....you gambled and lost it.

Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know this game. But it would be open to much abouse (based on how the OP descripes gameplay). Collect on a bonus, win on a new deposit without WR

 

[FreeDomme]

No mention of this in the terms nor cashier. Refund the player's deposits, give them a little something for their angst.

If 32Red is the hallmark of excellence why tolerate anything less?

 

[Repro]

I would have to agree with the casino on this one. If the system allowed progress to continue on fresh (bonus free) deposits, it would be open to too much abuse. I could maybe see your point if you didn't collect a bonus on your initial deposit. That said, it probably should be mentioned in their T&C's.

I haven't played the I-Slots in awhile, but I don't think the reward is all that great in getting to the end anyhow.

Also, its a bit of a stretch to ask for your initial deposit back too....you gambled and lost it.

I know it's unusual to ask for the deposit back, but i really feel cheated on this one. They don't even give me my 2nd deposit back unless i wager it once and i really don't want to wager another penny here.

For me it's quite common to redeposit and keep playing on a same slot, even after i bust out. I just redeposit (with or without a bonus) and keep playing, hoping to get the big payout/bonusfeature. I do this on every kind of slot, regardsless of the casino.

If this had been mentioned in the T&C's (which i've read very carefully) i would never have deposited here in the first place. It would have made me "itchy", because IMO there is NO reason to do this. The way it looks is that the game payouts are adjusted (lowered) because of this setup and "corrected" by these features, thus making it impossible to get a decent payout...

Of course IF i would have known this and IF i would have deposited anyway - which is very unlikely - i would have lowered my bets when i got around €15 or so to be sure to get to the end of the feature.

Worst part is that i never trusted Rival but decided to give them a chance. Now this happens. I know i won't give them a second chance.

 

[Repro]

Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know this game. But it would be open to much abouse (based on how the OP descripes gameplay). Collect on a bonus, win on a new deposit without WR

If they want to eliminate this kind of "bonusabuse" (which i detest because i'm new to Rival and just wanted to try them out), they should offer the possibility to redeposit WITH a bonus without the slot being reset. But they don't seem to offer this option.

 

[funeral979]

Just curious, why didn't you take a bonus with your second deposit? I have never seen a Rival cashier without having multiple bonuses being offered. You are saying you had only one bonus available, the initial deposit bonus?

And my own personal opinion is, is that this is probably a blessing in disguise. Rival is just plain awful.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Just curious, why didn't you take a bonus with your second deposit? I have never seen a Rival cashier without having multiple bonuses being offered. You are saying you had only one bonus available, the initial deposit bonus?

And my own personal opinion is, is that this is probably a blessing in disguise. Rival is just plain awful.

I'm guessing he didn't take the bonus offered because I really didn't wanted to continue playing... since the machine restarted from the beginning, and thus not continuing the previous game.

Like he said above, if the game continued from the previous point he was willing to take the bonus, in order to not make it bonus abuse (?)

 

[Repro]

Just curious, why didn't you take a bonus with your second deposit? I have never seen a Rival cashier without having multiple bonuses being offered. You are saying you had only one bonus available, the initial deposit bonus?

And my own personal opinion is, is that this is probably a blessing in disguise. Rival is just plain awful.

I had a LOT of bonusses available. If you look at the chat with CS he even offered to add a bonus to my second deposit, but that wouldn't have put the slot in the same state as it was. CS clearly said that the slots were DESIGNED to reset after a bonus had been completed.

After busting out on the first bonus (before the slot reset itself) i figured it was almost impossible to meet the WR (40x if i remember correctly) so i wasn't planning on taking on a new bonus.

 

[Repro]

I'm guessing he didn't take the bonus offered because I really didn't wanted to continue playing... since the machine restarted from the beginning, and thus not continuing the previous game.

Like he said above, if the game continued from the previous point he was willing to take the bonus, in order to not make it bonus abuse (?)

You are right.

I didn't really wanted to continue playing. If there would have been an option to continue this game by taking on a new bonus i'm not sure what i would have done. It doesn't change the fact that this was mentioned nowhere and that otherwise i would have lowered my bets to get the feature so i didn't have to redeposit in the first place.

 

[FreeDomme]

No harm in naming the casino. Is this the 'Heist' game policy across all of Rival casinos? This is a clear case of 'phantom terms'. It is clearly not fair to enforce a ghost term.

The game with bonus left them open to exploitation. You innocently happened upon a chink in policy that they covered internally but not in the terms or conditions written anywhere for you to agree to.

At the minimum both deposits should be returned.