Advice needed

I believe Bodog request front and back of credit cards.

Indeed they do....which is a PITA at times, as I remember loading my account there (long, long ago) using NS gift cards and had to send in a copy each time I used a new card.

One good thing about Bodog is that if you tell them that you don't have the card anymore, they will waive sending it in, as long as they can confirm that it was indeed a gift card and not a normal debit/credit card. This happened a couple of times, because I always throw mine away when the balance = $0. :)
 
Well, Mr Wolf did all this, and more. They were happy with his ID, and he was paid 4 cashouts. It was LATER that this passport issue arose. What made it disturbing was that the casino said they were quite happy with his ID, but STILL wanted the passport. The passport was NOT necessary to verify the ID of the player, and verifying the ID is the only reason casinos need documents.
Worse still, they would NOT accept the principle of "writing VOID over it" by the player blanking out the passport number, just as we are now advised to blank out the middle digits of the credit card image.
A listed company does NOT necessarily mean it can be trusted. There are many cases of big companies routinely screwing over customers, and MISHANDLING SENSITIVE DATA. One only has to see the lists of fines imposed by the various regulators, and changes in legislation to block loopholes. Two years ago, we would probably have trusted some of the biggest listed companies on the planet. Lehman bros, HSBC, Lloyds TSB - and these had far more credibility than a listed internet betting & casino company. The other concern is the rogue, or more often careless (perhaps badly trained) employee who's mishandling allows data to fall into the wrong hands. This is how "blaggers" work to convert a few snippets of information into a full blown ID, by effectively "blagging" their way past checks and balances at a busy undermanned, and perhaps poorly trained, customer support desk to get the missing pieces.

While casinos can justify the need for documentation, theyMUST accept that certain fields will be blanked out to ensure the document lacks enough information for it to be misused. With credit cards, the CCV and middle 8 digits are blanked. Why therefore cannot the unique passport number also be blanked, as this has nothing to do with cross checking the name and addresses with other documents, and account registration. Casinos still have not explained why they need a photo on any government issued document. They have no way to verify a photo against anything, so cannot really need it.

The final question is whether it is LEGAL for a UK citizen to provide, or a company to demand, a copy of all or part of a passport - it is this point above all that could get the casino into trouble. A while back, it might not have been such an issue for government, but in the current climate it may well be. At present, government officials are probably unaware that it is now common practice for some internet businessess to demand, and their customers to send, uncensored copies of the passport. This will be a far greater worry than the sending of copies of any other lesser ID document, such as a driving license, or various kinds of bills and statements.

Mr Wolf, in this case, was truly ambushed, as he had already long since passed verification, and was an established player. It would be up to Mr Wolf to pursue a complaint, perhaps if only on principle, over the issue of being forced to send a complete copy of his passport to an online casino, listed company or not.

The wider issue is that players have become used to sending copies of passports. Probably less risk of a leak than with government held data:rolleyes: with a listed company, but when it becomes routine habit, players will be just as trusting towards ANY casino that spins the same story of "we need a copy of your passport, then you will be paid", and the player will think nothing of sending it as he has done before, and will of course be the last to find out if it was misused.


Thanks for the support. I just wanted to clarify one thing though.

I had an initial cashin in January that was paid after supplying original documentation which was all fine.

I then deposited six more times and played again at Unibet, cashing in four times. Three of these withdrawals were not processed until all the extra documentation, including the passport, were supplied. Interestingly, they did pay one of the withdrawals before I'd supplied the extra documentation. When I queried this with customer services, I was told it had been paid by mistake!
 
Very sound advice from casinomeister to ask about verification before you deposit and play but as Mr Wolf says the problem here was that the original documents were good enough One Day and then not the next.

"We thought you were genuine but then you won." :mad:

There is nothing to stop Casinos delaying or refusing payments in this manner and I think it is terrible that MrWolf was made to jump through hoops just to get His money from the Casino.

The fact that Unibet are a big company and still act in this bullying, we make the rules, manner just reminds me what a minefield online gambling can be.

Anyway glad you got your money MrWolf and you have added some valuable information to the forum about how Unibet may act upon a withdrawal request.

PS

I do not blame the Casino. Everyplace is like this.

Thankfully that statement is incorrect.


Thanks for your comments Rusty.

I know casinos have to protect themselves, and I'm quite happy to comply with reasonable documentation requests. But I thought it was well worth publicising this issue so that others could avoid jumping through the hoops I've had to.
 
Thanks for your comments Rusty.

I know casinos have to protect themselves, and I'm quite happy to comply with reasonable documentation requests. But I thought it was well worth publicising this issue so that others could avoid jumping through the hoops I've had to.

The problem is that this will not happen. Casinos ALWAYS seem to bring the issue up at the time of cashing out. Surely, if they decided they needed your passport, they should have warned you of this new requirement BEFORE you made another deposit, let alone several more, so that you would at least have the option of playing elsewhere rather than depositing again.

One we start making distinctions between when we can, or cannot, send in passports, we have a problem. Phishing works by making the request look credible. banks have dealt with this by stating that they NEVER send click through links, NOT "it is OK to use a click through link if A is true, and a certain piece of information about you is included. Often, advice has been that Phishers address you as "Dear customer", making it easy to spot, but now I am receiving these with "Dear <my proper name>". On top of this, LEGITIMATE emails are being sent addressed "dear customer" because companies are just too lazy to include a script to personalise them.

Remember Rocco's casinos, based in "Magic fairy land". They were a front for an Eastern European syndicate, and they were thought to be after personal data, seeing the online casino cash-in process as FANTASTIC cover for such an operation. They could have set the games to pay, and then demanded passports, and every piece of documentation they could have laid their hands on. Players would most likely have complied, since it is annoying as hell, but nevertheless "accepted practice". Ministering Angel was similarly suspected of being something similar. Hopefully, no CM member ever sent anything sensitive to either, but they must have snared a few Drivers Licences, credit cards, and even passports.
 
i would like to have known what would have happened if you didnt have a passport? , (not eveybody does) would unibet have made you get one just to get your cashout,
 
i would like to have known what would have happened if you didnt have a passport? , (not eveybody does) would unibet have made you get one just to get your cashout,

Yes, according to their argument for requiring one, this would be the case, and this would NOT be the first time a player has been told to get a passport in order to pass ID and "anti-money laundering" checks.
Casinos are going way beyond what many banks and building societies require. With ACTUAL anti-money laundering guidelines, while a drivers licence or passport are key proof of ID documents, there ARE provisions in the regulations to cater for those who do not drive, and have never travelled (and so have never bothered with a passport).

There IS an alternative, drastic, but it would be to take a casino to court for non-payment, and if it is merely a "documents" issue, if the court is satisfied with the proof of ID offered, they will issue a judgement for payment. It would be cheaper, and probably less hassle, just to get a passport.
Under the new UK rules, gambling debt CAN now be subject to normal civil debt recovery action. I don't expect there are many cases of casino vs player, and the ONLY one I can recall is when William Hill was sued by a player because they failed to implement "responsible gambling" measures on his account.
 
RE: Your documents...

Hi Mr Wolf,

I've been going through various postings, and would like to follow up whether or not your issue has since been resolved.

Please send me a private message with your account details so that I can follow up for you, and see if there is any way in which we can help to sort this matter out.

Please don't hesitate to contact me anytime for any assistance.

Curt
Customer Service Rep
Vegas Partner Lounge
 
For those that are interested, thought I'd post what happened with the casino that was refusing to cashin my winnings until I sent them a copy of my passport.

The casino in question was Unibet.

To briefly recap, I had sent them documents (drivers' licence, utility bill, copy of cc) in January, and they duly processed my first cashin.

I then deposited another six times, made four withdrawals, and was then asked to send lots more documentation. I sent them copies of my visa debit card, bank statements and passport with the number and some sensitive info blocked but they could quite clearly see it was my passport.

However, despite being told my ID was not in question following all the documetation I'd sent, the version of the passport I sent was not good enough for Unibet. I did contact the Unibet rep here who tried to liaise with the casino, and I even got a call from their auditing dept.

Despite my concerns about ID theft (I refer again to CM's warning about copies of passports in his latest broadcast) and being told they sympathised, they wouldn't budge. I do not know why for the life of me they need to have your passport number when they can see your name, date of birth, photo, passport authority.

It was made quite clear to me that my cashins would not be processed without the passport number showing, so against my better judgement I eventually gave in and sent it to get the matter resolved. This is the first and only time I have ever sent a copy of my passport to an online casino, and I only considered it because Unibet is a publicy listed company.

I do however feel that I was steamrollered into sending passport information that they have no valid reason for (after telling me that my ID isn't in question) and I'm disappointed by the attitude of a CM-approved casino.

Anyway, my cashins were duly processed, and I received them yesterday.

I have to say, Unibet have to take the gold medal for my worst ever experience with an online casino.

Hi Mr Wolf,

I've been going through various postings, and would like to follow up whether or not your issue has since been resolved.

Please send me a private message with your account details so that I can follow up for you, and see if there is any way in which we can help to sort this matter out.

Please don't hesitate to contact me anytime for any assistance.

Curt
Customer Service Rep
Vegas Partner Lounge

Hi Curt, as you can see this was resolved but if you could add an explanation of why the OP was made to jump through hoops to get His money that would be very much appreciated and would help greatly in people determining if this is likely to happen to them should they play at Unibet.
 
For those that are interested, thought I'd post what happened with the casino that was refusing to cashin my winnings until I sent them a copy of my passport.

The casino in question was Unibet.

Hi Mr Wolf,

I've been going through various postings, and would like to follow up whether or not your issue has since been resolved.

Please send me a private message with your account details so that I can follow up for you, and see if there is any way in which we can help to sort this matter out.

Please don't hesitate to contact me anytime for any assistance.

Curt
Customer Service Rep
Vegas Partner Lounge

Am I missing something here?? This is Unibet Casino right and the VPL Rep wants Mr. Wolfs account details for his Unibet account ?? :confused:


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I believe Bodog request front and back of credit cards.

Rusty and Win....I think you misunderstood me. I always send the front and back of my CC when requested...BUT, I black out the three digit CVV on the back of the card when sending it. Under your signature, there is the last four digits of your card #, along with a three digit "verification" #, that you punch in when using your card online. The casino I had read about, insisted that the player could not black out this number...and wanted the back of the card in its entirety. There is no reason on earth they would need that number for identity verification purposes.

Am I missing something here?? This is Unibet Casino right and the VPL Rep wants Mr. Wolfs account details for his Unibet account ?? :confused:

My thoughts exactly Rob, lol....what in the world does Vegas Partner Lounge have to do with Unibet? :confused:
 
There is no reason on earth they would need that number for identity verification purposes.

if I remember right, VPL wanted the back of my CC in its entirety, as well. They even balked at my blocking out my signature when I first sent it in, even though it was MY name that could be clearly seen on its front, which matched MY drivers license, so what do they, or anyone else care, if you block out your signature? :rolleyes:

Also, how in the world would they know that it was actually YOU that had possession of that stuff, in the first place?

If you steal someone's wallet, you're going to have access to everything that they ask for in regards to verification docs.....and once you have their address you can simply go through their trash and maybe get lucky enough to find a utility bill or something...:rolleyes:
 
if I remember right, VPL wanted the back of my CC in its entirety, as well. They even balked at my blocking out my signature when I first sent it in, even though it was MY name that could be clearly seen on its front, which matched MY drivers license, so what do they, or anyone else care, if you block out your signature? :rolleyes:

Also, how in the world would they know that it was actually YOU that had possession of that stuff, in the first place?

If you steal someone's wallet, you're going to have access to everything that they ask for in regards to verification docs.....and once you have their address you can simply go through their trash and maybe get lucky enough to find a utility bill or something...:rolleyes:

It's the CCV on the back that allows "card not present" fraud, along with having the entire card number. The signature is not such a problem, as many places now use chip & pin, rather than the signature, to verify the holder. The signature can be a worry if used on a cloned card, and where chip & pin is not used, and such places still exist, which is why much card fraud now happens with retailers from less advanced economies that still rely on these outdated verification methods.
 

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