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ADA & IGaming

Discussion in 'The Attic' started by GrandMaster, Jun 3, 2012.

    Jun 3, 2012
  1. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I just want to give P.V. an opportunity to explain why asking for notarized documents is against the ADA.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Jun 4, 2012
  3. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...
    The ADA laws within the U.S. clearly prohibit discrimination by state and local governments along with telecommunications. Since state governments, as it stands will be controlling whether IGaming is allowed, how it's regulated, it's obvious that ADA laws will apply for legalized online gambling operators to a certain extent..
    Telecommunications simply calls for no discrimination with communication over a distance by cable.

    If I remember correctly there's already guidelines in place for state and local government website's relating to ADA requirements and it's my opinion at some point in the future many websites will be forced to be more disability friendly as technology improves and complaints or even lawsuits are filed.

    So in relation to verification of hard documents currently IGaming sites are doing internal checks during registration, requesting ID, proof of address, passports and many other forms, systems to validate a players identity. Recently notarized documents requests have started to appear within the threads and industry.

    I said before the only reason for a notarized document is that the IGaming site can't seem to verify a player by all the other measures they're taking, isn't taking the time or measures to study the document. I know for a fact there's some verification companies that they can forward an actual document to for verification. Even my DL has a seal and other identifiable marks that can't be copied, why would I need it notarized?

    This type request doesn't help with industry pundits who slam the gaming industry with cries of minors and fraudsters can gamble online, don't allow this to be legalized and requests like notarized documents fuels the fire.

    If I were disabled, if I gambled online I'd have no problem providing a gaming site with all the information I could provide. But once it was provided and then they advised to go out and get it notarized this could cause a problem. Lots of disabled persons have limited access to transportation, friends or family and don't even leave their neighborhood. Many can't leave their homes.

    Many whom are not disabled might not have a problem running out and finding a notary and paying their fee and following the sites request. My point being it becomes a discriminatory request for someone that's disabled and can't do these type of functions.

    An example my mom loves to gamble, she's 72 now and when she could I'd take her on trips to land based casino's to spend time with her and let her gamble. When online poker, slots and other games do become legal here in the US, she's not in a position to drive, can hardly walk but she could probably put a whipping on some online poker players even now. She's pretty much home ridden, so I can't take her anywhere in person to get doc's notarized. She's very active online though.

    GrandMaster has reflected, I said that asking for notarized documents is against the ADA which is slightly misleading. In fact I stated the US ADA laws wouldn't stand for this. The ADA is a mandate for equality, this type of a request isn't equality.

    This is what I said:

    "The U.S. ADA laws would not stand for IGaming sites requiring a handicapped player to go and find a way to get documents notarized to gamble online, or get paid. It has to be an equal playing field and this requirement will never fly."

    There's no current legal online pokers sites, OC games yet within the US but as things progress I find it hard to believe that equality will require individuals to run to a local notary in order to get paid. The IGaming industry has something special to offer for disabled persons, called online gambling, don't screw it up asking for these type requests, or when it does become legal I'm sure the DOJ will have a field day.

    So in short the IGaming industry compliments disabled persons, why request something that becomes a burdon for them? :rolleyes:
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 4, 2012
  5. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Here it is possible for a notary to come to your home. There is an additional fee of course.
     
  6. Jun 5, 2012
  7. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...

    But like you said for an additional fee. Think what it would cost someone in a rural area, that's even if a notary would travel that far. :eek:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 10, 2012
  9. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Does the ADA require that supermarkets or restaurants deliver food free to people with serious mobility impairment?

    There is no need for the player and the notary to meet. If somebody does the disabled person's shopping and his errands, this person could also take care of the notarisation, or the whole matter could dealt with by post.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 11, 2012
  11. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...

    There are local stores that will deliver orders for free, plenty of religious, charity organizations that do the shopping and delivery to their homes. I owned a store for several years and family members would stop in and ask if I'd deliver food to their elderly parents in the area which I had no problem doing, no fee's. So in short there's programs in place for this.

    BTY - I can get a Pappa John's pizza for $10.00 unlimited topping with no delivery fee! :D

    Food is a necessity, notarized documents isn't. Again if verification can't be done online then the pundits must be correct that minors can't be stopped from gambling online and true identity can't be verified online if it takes a notary to do so. I tend to disagree, by doing multiple levels of verification and a notary seal isn't one of them.

    As Jasminebed suggested a mobile notary can do this. I did some checking and see there are in fact some mobile notaries in the area but do they travel far, what's their fee? Again the question arises is it fair for someone like myself just to stop by the bank, or my attorney and get doc's notarized for free vs. a disabled person in a rural area either not being able to find one that will travel that far or better yet want an arm and leg for their effort. Which they can't by law, only a small fee.

    Furthermore here in the U.S. documents must be notarized in person, never heard of doing it by post. You would mail your passport to a notary, wait for its return? :what: Do you know how unsecure this process would be? In the U.S. documents must be notarized in person, not by mail.

    And on a side note notaries have no obligation to study a document or verify it's authenticity and that's another reason this process isn't going to fly with U.S. IGaming.

    In the United States, a notary public is an individual permitted by a particular state to witness signatures and affix a signature and seal verifying that the document was signed in the notary’s presence. An American notary’s only obligation is to examine an identity document of the person signing the document (such as a passport, identity card, or driver’s license), and verify that he or she has seen the person sign the document. The American notary does not examine the document being notarized or have any knowledge of the accuracy of its contents. Notaries are permitted to charge a small fee (set by the state which certified them as notaries) although many banks and attorneys will provide the service free of charge to their own clients. Only a few types of documents, such as real estate purchases, wills, and sworn affidavits to be presented in legal cases, require notarization. A notary public in the U.S. is not permitted to prepare legal documents or give legal advice.

    The U.S. has extremely minimal requirements for becoming a notary—usually any adult who can read or write can become a notary.

    So not only do I still think it's a discriminatory request, it just doesn't make since for U.S. online gambling. What's the point? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
  12. Jun 11, 2012
  13. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    But if there were different prices for pick-up and for delivery, would Papa John be obligated to deliver free to mobility impaired customers?

    Online gaming isn't a necessity. :)

    Registered mail is quite secure or you could use a courier. US passport offices send out passports by mail as well, don't they? They certainly used to.

    The notarisation only proves that the copy is a true copy of the original document, not that the document itself is genuine or that it belongs to the person presenting it.

     
  14. Jun 12, 2012
  15. P.V.

    P.V. Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Make money!
    Location:
    Turn around...
    You're speculating now, chopping this in to so many pieces it's hard to count them. :rolleyes:

    I don't recall you mentioning registered mail or I would have replied differently.


    So what's the point? :thumbsup:


    The industry has other ways for doc. & ID verification vs. making a disabled person go to a notary and I think I've addressed it clearly.

    I was also trying to address the fact that online gambling works for U.S. disabled persons wanting to gamble online, so why make verification an affliction for them.

    Maybe if this thread would have been started somewhere other than the attic some disabled persons might have chimed in on how they appreciate online gambling vs. trying to go to a land base casino.

    My last point, there's at least 34.2 million people with functional limitations in the U.S..
     

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