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Accredited Casino "VIP Casinos"; Resolved

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by gaming_mouse, Jun 27, 2006.

    Jun 27, 2006
  1. gaming_mouse

    gaming_mouse Dormant account

    Occupation:
    poker
    Location:
    LA
    Hi,

    I'm not sure if this belongs in a pitchabitch or here. Please let me know if I should submit this to Bryan, or if he will see it here. But I am having a nightmare experience with VIP Casinos that I thought a should share, especially since I have never had a problem with an accredited casino before.

    The terms on their website are very clear about which games are excluded from playthru calculations. Each excluded game is listed separately in a list on this page:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The last rep I talked to suggested that they may update that page, so in case they do here is:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Note that while the game "Bonus Deuces Wild" is listed as an excluded game, the game "Deuces Wild" (definitely a different game) is not. Since I planned to play this game, I confirmed this fact with a CS rep. Here is here confirmation that "Deuces Wild" is indeed allowed:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The problems began when I went back to the chat to check on my wagering requirements. A new chat representative informed me that "Deuces Wild" did not count. She was about to dismiss my protests to the contrary altogether, until I mentioned casinomeister as a referral, and my screenshot of my previous chat session.

    After a long delay, she spoke with a supervisor and they agreed that my previous wagering on Deuces Wild would count, but that no further wagering would. She claimed that it is stated on the website that "Deuces Wild" does not count, and ignored me when I pointed out that this was simply false.

    I was shocked that an accredited casino would so blatantly disregard not only their own T&C, but also the promise of one of their own reps.

    I'd appreciate any advice.

    Thanks,
    Jonah

    Here is the transcript of my Chat with the 2nd rep:

    One of our Member Services staff will be with you in a moment
    You are now chatting with Charlene
    Charlene: Thanks for contacting us at VIP - how may I help you today?
    TheIoanna: Hello Charlene
    TheIoanna: I have been playing alot recently, but I have no idea how much I have wagered. Could you tell me?
    Charlene: Hello, Jonah.
    Charlene: Please hold on a moment, I will check your account.
    Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
    Charlene: Jonah, you have wagered $2,212.00 and still have to wager $9,788.00 to meet the rollover requirement.
    Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
    TheIoanna: No. That is impossible.
    TheIoanna: I have wagered at least $5000 on Deuces Wild, which is an allowed game.
    Charlene: I am sorry Jonah, Deuces Wild is also one of the excluded games.
    Charlene: The games excluded from playthrough are: Baccarat
    Charlene: Bingo
    Charlene: BlackJack
    Charlene: Craps
    Charlene: MultiHand Video Poker
    Charlene: Poker
    Charlene: Roulette
    Charlene: Video Poker
    Charlene: War
    TheIoanna: No, Charlene. It is not. I was told so by one of your reps over chat and have a screenshot of that. You should also check your own website. It is not listed there.
    Charlene: This game actually is excluded, do you remember the name of the clerk that informed you that it wasn't?
    TheIoanna: Hold on I will look at the screenshot.
    TheIoanna: Idris
    TheIoanna: You should also look here:
    TheIoanna: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Charlene: If you look at our website it is also stated that this game is excluded. Please visit You must register/login in order to see the link..
    TheIoanna: You will notice that Deuces wild does not count
    TheIoanna: No Charlene. It is not listed there.
    TheIoanna: Only Bonus Deuces Wild is listed there.
    Charlene: It is the 5th game mentioned.
    TheIoanna: No. That is "Bonus Dueces Wild"
    TheIoanna: A different game from "Deuces Wild"
    Charlene: Neither one of them qualify, "Bonus Dueces Wild" nor "Deuces Wild".
    TheIoanna: One moment I will post the screenshot of the chat with Iris.
    TheIoanna: I was referred here by the casinomeister website.
    TheIoanna: Here is the screenshot:
    TheIoanna: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Charlene: Please hold one moment.
    TheIoanna: Are you still there?
    Charlene: Your patience is appreciated. I will be with you in a moment.
    Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
    Charlene: Jonah, I spoke to my supervisor and she decided to since it is our mistake, she will grant you the rollover of the $12.000 including the deuces wild game up to now. Please be advised for future reference that the "Dueces Wild" nor any other "MultiHand Video Poker" do not count towards the rollover requirement.
    Charlene: So any games played after will not qualify anymore as you are now informed correctly that it does not qualify for the rollover. Once you reach the 12.000 we will adjust his account so you can take the money out.
    Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
    TheIoanna: Charlene, since I was told these were the terms... I should be able to continue to play that game to meet my rollover.
    TheIoanna: Also, how much have I wagered so far?
    Charlene: I am sorry but that is not possible, we will grant you the funds you have played so far but that is all.
    Charlene: If you include this game it is $8,244.90.
    TheIoanna: Ok, well I will be reporting this decision to the casinomeister, as well as the discrepancy between your posted terms on your website and what you are telling me.
    TheIoanna: I played here because you are an accredited casino
    TheIoanna: This is outrageous.
    Charlene: It clearly states on our website that this game is excluded. However since this was our mistake we will still grant you the funds you played, but you are informed now and therefore we will not be able to continue giving you the rollover on this game.
     
  2. Jun 27, 2006
  3. kiolka

    kiolka Dormant account

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think they are being very reasonable. They have counted the wagering for you up to this point. Yes you were told something in error, but I think they are making up for it.
     
  4. Jun 27, 2006
  5. gaming_mouse

    gaming_mouse Dormant account

    Occupation:
    poker
    Location:
    LA
    The key point is that what I was told is in agreement with the posted terms on their website. I don't think it's fair for them to claim that posted terms are in error. In fact, one of the CM's rules for Accredited Casinos is that they must stick to their T&C. That is my main problem with their response.

    Thanks for your reply,
    Jonah
     
  6. Jun 27, 2006
  7. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Bonus Deuces Wild and Deuces Wild are two different games. They should count it.

    I guess they cover themselves by stating they can change the terms any time they like. As I understand it Mansion did that too.

    The problem with such a term is that it becomes a bait and switch whereby they could make the bonus impossible to clear at any point after you deposit.
     
  8. Jun 27, 2006
  9. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    I don't understand why they're telling you that all video poker games are excluded. Their list of excluded games on their website doesn't indicate that. You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I'm confused ...
     
  10. Jun 27, 2006
  11. gaming_mouse

    gaming_mouse Dormant account

    Occupation:
    poker
    Location:
    LA
    Welcome to the club :)
     
  12. Jun 27, 2006
  13. liquuid_fusion

    liquuid_fusion Meister Member PABnorogue PABnononaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    I was planning on playing certain VP games that are not excluded too, but in the email they sent me after I was credited a bonus, it said all VP games are excluded. I played 3 Card Poker instead to be safe. I think their site is misleading, they should just say all VP games are excluded if that is the case.
     
  14. Jun 27, 2006
  15. VMSCasinos

    VMSCasinos Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    Hi,

    This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

    John
     
  16. Jun 27, 2006
  17. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    What about Deuces Wild?
     
  18. Jun 27, 2006
  19. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    Double Deuces Wild isn't excluded from the bonus.
    Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist on the RTG platform.
    I'm pretty sure Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist in any casino anywhere.

    If you're talking about Double Bonus Deuces Wild, well, that doesn't exist in RTG's library of games either.

    The OP is talking about Deuces Wild video poker, and I still don't see it on the excluded list at the links you've posted. Bonus Deuces Wild is clearly excluded, but Deuces Wild isn't.
     
  20. Jun 27, 2006
  21. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    'Double Dueces Wild'? That games does not exist! (and it is also not on the list, so I do not see this 'clearly')
    But I think you mean 'Bonus Dueces Wild'. And I agree it is clear that this game is excluded in the T&C.

    However gaming_mouse was playing 'Dueces Wild' which is not the same
    as 'Bonus Dueces Wild', and 'Dueces Wild' is NOT on the excluded game list.

    Maybe you would be easier if you write all video-poker games are excluded so you do not forget any of them since that seems to be the case here.

    Here is the list of excluded games from the web-page:
    Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pick’em Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War.

    It would be easier if casinos wrote what games was allowed instead of the excluded list.


    Zoozie
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2006
  22. Jun 27, 2006
  23. lydia

    lydia Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Administrative
    Location:
    Europe
    LOL! :lolup:
     
  24. Jun 27, 2006
  25. aodat2

    aodat2 Senior Member PABnononaccred PABnoaccred2 PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    I have a job
    Location:
    Malaysia
    Since you asked for an opinion, here's mine.

    From now on, all casinos (including VIP Casinos) should actually start their T&C like this:

    If you take this Bonus, you will only be allowed to play :
    1. ....
    2. ....
    3. ....

    Until you have completed the Wagering Requirements, any other games played will be considered as a breach in the T&C and thus your winning will be null and void. If you lose, TOUGH LUCK!!!

    That would be a lot better to the players.
     
  26. Jun 27, 2006
  27. gaming_mouse

    gaming_mouse Dormant account

    Occupation:
    poker
    Location:
    LA
    John,

    I don't want to be rude, but if you actually took the time to read this thread you would have seen that, as bpb pointed out, the game I was playing is called "Deuces Wild" -- not "Double Deuces Wild" or "Bonus Deuces Wild" -- and that this game is NOT on your excluded list.

    I am surprised that a Casino manager registered as a representative on this site would make such an error publicly. Now that it has been pointed out, perhaps you might want to reconsider the decision that has been made in my case.

    Thanks,
    Jonah
     
  28. Jun 27, 2006
  29. tennis_balls

    tennis_balls Dormant account

    Occupation:
    fish n chips promoter
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    at this rate their casino will go the way of their poker room.

    they boast about being a member of the first poker network yet in in it's current state the network is a ghost-town.
     
  30. Jun 27, 2006
  31. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    No offense to the rep from VIP...If he doesn't even know what game this thread is talking about, well that pretty much sums up what posters have been complaining about as of late. A rep in chat will tell you one thing (if they even understand what you're talking about), a rep on the phone says something different, the T&C's are different from what they both said! I for one am fed up! When I first read this thread I was going to say "I think the rep was being reasonable" but that is bull****! We have come to expect so little from customer service. I beleive we all need to demand more!...Rant over;)
     
  32. Jun 27, 2006
  33. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    This casino manager doesnt even know what he's talking about. He should have said that in his opinion Deuces Wild is an excluded game but since this was unclear the player should still be able to fulfill the WRs thru playing Deuces Wild. On second thoughts maybe excluding Bonus Deuces Wild meant that playing Deuces Wild was an excluded game if you took a bonus.

    Come, on John, a mistake has been made. No need to cover it up through an excuse which is likely to embarrass your casino even further. Change the wording in the website from Bonus Deuces Wild to Deuces Wild and if deposits had been made prior to the change treat Deuces Wild as a non-excluded game for the sake of meeting the WRs. I hope we dont see a repeat of the King Neptune's fiasco.

    Ah, maybe we can rename the thread to 'VIP Casinos' not understanding their own terms. Good grief!
     
  34. Jun 27, 2006
  35. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    I think the rep just made a mistake. No need to beat him up over it (although it is understable with all the stuff going on with other casinos lately). Give him a chance to admit it and confirm Deuces Wild is allowed.
     
  36. Jun 28, 2006
  37. big_mac

    big_mac Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    uk
    I don't know what you are complaining about, Deuces Wild is obviously on the list :rolleyes:


    Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Deuces Wild, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pickem Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War
     
  38. Jun 28, 2006
  39. paul1

    paul1 Dormant account


    You know what bud, this is a chicken sh-t beef if you ask me. I joined this group some time ago, and it was clear to me that video poker was NOT intended to be allowed for the bonus. If you looked at their terms as it was, and still chose to play DW for a bonus, I don't think you deserve any sympathy.

    This is a very reputable group. I know they are associated with Planet Poker and that was my first experience at gambling online. I know of their reputation. Like I said, extremely reputable.

    I've noticed several new clients lately implementing the RTG software. I think they all had some learning to do, and made a few mistakes that left them vulnerable. Clearly this group did not intend for video poker to be played for bonuses. Perhaps they should have just said in plain English "no video poker". But your playing deuces wild there for a bonus is just as dumb as some people playing roulette for bonuses. Why leave yourself open and invite trouble?
     

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