Accredited Casino "VIP Casinos"; Resolved

[gaming_mouse]

Hi,

I'm not sure if this belongs in a pitchabitch or here. Please let me know if I should submit this to Bryan, or if he will see it here. But I am having a nightmare experience with VIP Casinos that I thought a should share, especially since I have never had a problem with an accredited casino before.

The terms on their website are very clear about which games are excluded from playthru calculations. Each excluded game is listed separately in a list on this page:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

The last rep I talked to suggested that they may update that page, so in case they do here is:

Link Removed (invalid URL)

Note that while the game "Bonus Deuces Wild" is listed as an excluded game, the game "Deuces Wild" (definitely a different game) is not. Since I planned to play this game, I confirmed this fact with a CS rep. Here is here confirmation that "Deuces Wild" is indeed allowed:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The problems began when I went back to the chat to check on my wagering requirements. A new chat representative informed me that "Deuces Wild" did not count. She was about to dismiss my protests to the contrary altogether, until I mentioned casinomeister as a referral, and my screenshot of my previous chat session.

After a long delay, she spoke with a supervisor and they agreed that my previous wagering on Deuces Wild would count, but that no further wagering would. She claimed that it is stated on the website that "Deuces Wild" does not count, and ignored me when I pointed out that this was simply false.

I was shocked that an accredited casino would so blatantly disregard not only their own T&C, but also the promise of one of their own reps.

I'd appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Jonah

Here is the transcript of my Chat with the 2nd rep:

One of our Member Services staff will be with you in a moment
You are now chatting with Charlene
Charlene: Thanks for contacting us at VIP - how may I help you today?
TheIoanna: Hello Charlene
TheIoanna: I have been playing alot recently, but I have no idea how much I have wagered. Could you tell me?
Charlene: Hello, Jonah.
Charlene: Please hold on a moment, I will check your account.
Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
Charlene: Jonah, you have wagered $2,212.00 and still have to wager $9,788.00 to meet the rollover requirement.
Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
TheIoanna: No. That is impossible.
TheIoanna: I have wagered at least $5000 on Deuces Wild, which is an allowed game.
Charlene: I am sorry Jonah, Deuces Wild is also one of the excluded games.
Charlene: The games excluded from playthrough are: Baccarat
Charlene: Bingo
Charlene: BlackJack
Charlene: Craps
Charlene: MultiHand Video Poker
Charlene: Poker
Charlene: Roulette
Charlene: Video Poker
Charlene: War
TheIoanna: No, Charlene. It is not. I was told so by one of your reps over chat and have a screenshot of that. You should also check your own website. It is not listed there.
Charlene: This game actually is excluded, do you remember the name of the clerk that informed you that it wasn't?
TheIoanna: Hold on I will look at the screenshot.
TheIoanna: Idris
TheIoanna: You should also look here:
TheIoanna: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Charlene: If you look at our website it is also stated that this game is excluded. Please visit Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) .
TheIoanna: You will notice that Deuces wild does not count
TheIoanna: No Charlene. It is not listed there.
TheIoanna: Only Bonus Deuces Wild is listed there.
Charlene: It is the 5th game mentioned.
TheIoanna: No. That is "Bonus Dueces Wild"
TheIoanna: A different game from "Deuces Wild"
Charlene: Neither one of them qualify, "Bonus Dueces Wild" nor "Deuces Wild".
TheIoanna: One moment I will post the screenshot of the chat with Iris.
TheIoanna: I was referred here by the casinomeister website.
TheIoanna: Here is the screenshot:
TheIoanna:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Charlene: Please hold one moment.
TheIoanna: Are you still there?
Charlene: Your patience is appreciated. I will be with you in a moment.
Charlene: Thank you for your patience.
Charlene: Jonah, I spoke to my supervisor and she decided to since it is our mistake, she will grant you the rollover of the $12.000 including the deuces wild game up to now. Please be advised for future reference that the "Dueces Wild" nor any other "MultiHand Video Poker" do not count towards the rollover requirement.
Charlene: So any games played after will not qualify anymore as you are now informed correctly that it does not qualify for the rollover. Once you reach the 12.000 we will adjust his account so you can take the money out.
Charlene: Is there anything else I can help you with?
TheIoanna: Charlene, since I was told these were the terms... I should be able to continue to play that game to meet my rollover.
TheIoanna: Also, how much have I wagered so far?
Charlene: I am sorry but that is not possible, we will grant you the funds you have played so far but that is all.
Charlene: If you include this game it is $8,244.90.
TheIoanna: Ok, well I will be reporting this decision to the casinomeister, as well as the discrepancy between your posted terms on your website and what you are telling me.
TheIoanna: I played here because you are an accredited casino
TheIoanna: This is outrageous.
Charlene: It clearly states on our website that this game is excluded. However since this was our mistake we will still grant you the funds you played, but you are informed now and therefore we will not be able to continue giving you the rollover on this game.

 

[kiolka]

I think they are being very reasonable. They have counted the wagering for you up to this point. Yes you were told something in error, but I think they are making up for it.

 

[gaming_mouse]

I think they are being very reasonable. They have counted the wagering for you up to this point. Yes you were told something in error, but I think they are making up for it.

The key point is that what I was told is in agreement with the posted terms on their website. I don't think it's fair for them to claim that posted terms are in error. In fact, one of the CM's rules for Accredited Casinos is that they must stick to their T&C. That is my main problem with their response.

Thanks for your reply,
Jonah

 

[soflat]

Bonus Deuces Wild and Deuces Wild are two different games. They should count it.

I guess they cover themselves by stating they can change the terms any time they like. As I understand it Mansion did that too.

The problem with such a term is that it becomes a bait and switch whereby they could make the bonus impossible to clear at any point after you deposit.

 

[bpb]

I don't understand why they're telling you that all video poker games are excluded. Their list of excluded games on their website doesn't indicate that. Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I'm confused ...

 

[gaming_mouse]

I'm confused ...

Welcome to the club

 

[hitobito2005]

I was planning on playing certain VP games that are not excluded too, but in the email they sent me after I was credited a bonus, it said all VP games are excluded. I played 3 Card Poker instead to be safe. I think their site is misleading, they should just say all VP games are excluded if that is the case.

 

[VMSCasinos]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

 

[soflat]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

What about Deuces Wild?

 

[bpb]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

Double Deuces Wild isn't excluded from the bonus.
Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist on the RTG platform.
I'm pretty sure Double Deuces Wild doesn't exist in any casino anywhere.

If you're talking about Double Bonus Deuces Wild, well, that doesn't exist in RTG's library of games either.

The OP is talking about Deuces Wild video poker, and I still don't see it on the excluded list at the links you've posted. Bonus Deuces Wild is clearly excluded, but Deuces Wild isn't.

 

[Zoozie]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

John

'Double Dueces Wild'? That games does not exist! (and it is also not on the list, so I do not see this 'clearly')
But I think you mean 'Bonus Dueces Wild'. And I agree it is clear that this game is excluded in the T&C.

However gaming_mouse was playing 'Dueces Wild' which is not the same
as 'Bonus Dueces Wild', and 'Dueces Wild' is NOT on the excluded game list.

Maybe you would be easier if you write all video-poker games are excluded so you do not forget any of them since that seems to be the case here.

Here is the list of excluded games from the web-page:
Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pick’em Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War.

It would be easier if casinos wrote what games was allowed instead of the excluded list.


Zoozie

 

[lydia]

Here is the list of excluded games from the web-page:
Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pickem Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War.

It would be easier if casinos wrote what games was allowed instead of the excluded list.


Zoozie

LOL!

 

[aodat2]

Since you asked for an opinion, here's mine.

From now on, all casinos (including VIP Casinos) should actually start their T&C like this:

If you take this Bonus, you will only be allowed to play :
1. ....
2. ....
3. ....

Until you have completed the Wagering Requirements, any other games played will be considered as a breach in the T&C and thus your winning will be null and void. If you lose, TOUGH LUCK!!!

That would be a lot better to the players.

 

[gaming_mouse]

Hi,

This is John Olsen from VIPcasinos. In my opinion the rules are very clear to the player. If you click on the following links you will see that Double Deuces Wild is clearly excluded from the bonus.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

If you feel differently please let me know how we can make it more clear to the player.

John

John,

I don't want to be rude, but if you actually took the time to read this thread you would have seen that, as bpb pointed out, the game I was playing is called "Deuces Wild" -- not "Double Deuces Wild" or "Bonus Deuces Wild" -- and that this game is NOT on your excluded list.

I am surprised that a Casino manager registered as a representative on this site would make such an error publicly. Now that it has been pointed out, perhaps you might want to reconsider the decision that has been made in my case.

Thanks,
Jonah

 

[tennis_balls]

at this rate their casino will go the way of their poker room.

they boast about being a member of the first poker network yet in in it's current state the network is a ghost-town.

 

[ballysdb]

No offense to the rep from VIP...If he doesn't even know what game this thread is talking about, well that pretty much sums up what posters have been complaining about as of late. A rep in chat will tell you one thing (if they even understand what you're talking about), a rep on the phone says something different, the T&C's are different from what they both said! I for one am fed up! When I first read this thread I was going to say "I think the rep was being reasonable" but that is bull****! We have come to expect so little from customer service. I beleive we all need to demand more!...Rant over

 

[chuchu59]

This casino manager doesnt even know what he's talking about. He should have said that in his opinion Deuces Wild is an excluded game but since this was unclear the player should still be able to fulfill the WRs thru playing Deuces Wild. On second thoughts maybe excluding Bonus Deuces Wild meant that playing Deuces Wild was an excluded game if you took a bonus.

Come, on John, a mistake has been made. No need to cover it up through an excuse which is likely to embarrass your casino even further. Change the wording in the website from Bonus Deuces Wild to Deuces Wild and if deposits had been made prior to the change treat Deuces Wild as a non-excluded game for the sake of meeting the WRs. I hope we dont see a repeat of the King Neptune's fiasco.

Ah, maybe we can rename the thread to 'VIP Casinos' not understanding their own terms. Good grief!

 

[soflat]

I think the rep just made a mistake. No need to beat him up over it (although it is understable with all the stuff going on with other casinos lately). Give him a chance to admit it and confirm Deuces Wild is allowed.

 

[big_mac]

I don't know what you are complaining about, Deuces Wild is obviously on the list


Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Deuces Wild, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pickem Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War

 

[paul1]

Hi,

I'm not sure if this belongs in a pitchabitch or here. Please let me know if I should submit this to Bryan, or if he will see it here. But I am having a nightmare experience with VIP Casinos that I thought a should share, especially since I have never had a problem with an accredited casino before.

You know what bud, this is a chicken sh-t beef if you ask me. I joined this group some time ago, and it was clear to me that video poker was NOT intended to be allowed for the bonus. If you looked at their terms as it was, and still chose to play DW for a bonus, I don't think you deserve any sympathy.

This is a very reputable group. I know they are associated with Planet Poker and that was my first experience at gambling online. I know of their reputation. Like I said, extremely reputable.

I've noticed several new clients lately implementing the RTG software. I think they all had some learning to do, and made a few mistakes that left them vulnerable. Clearly this group did not intend for video poker to be played for bonuses. Perhaps they should have just said in plain English "no video poker". But your playing deuces wild there for a bonus is just as dumb as some people playing roulette for bonuses. Why leave yourself open and invite trouble?

 

[paul1]

at this rate their casino will go the way of their poker room.

they boast about being a member of the first poker network yet in in it's current state the network is a ghost-town.

You're talking about the tables at Planet Poker. Clearly they dropped the ball at some point and it is difficult for me to understand what happened. Anyone can second guess.

But they had the world by the ying yangs at one point. I remember the days when Party only had 300 players, Paradise had more, and Planet was in a good position to be the industry leader.

It could probably be a good debate as to what people think was their mistake/mistakes. But anyway, that's history now.

One thing though, you can't debate that this group had integrity. Maybe a case of nice guys finishing last.

 

[paul1]

Contrast this to the case where some Microgaming casinos exclude Jacks-or-better or Jacks-or-better-type games, making no mention of Deuces Wild. That's a different situation. In this case you've got a RTG software that offers a gazillion different video poker games, and if they left one out but excluded all the others, CLEARLY their intent is to exclude video poker.

 

[gaming_mouse]

I don't know what you are complaining about, Deuces Wild is obviously on the list


Aces and Eights, All American Poker, Baccarat, Black Jack, Bonus Deuces Wild, Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe, Caribbean 21, Craps, Deuces Wild, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Jackpot Poker, Double Double Bonus Poker, European Roulette, Face Up 21, Jacks or Better, Loose Deuces, Match Play 21, Mystery Bonus Poker, Pickem Poker, Pontoon, Roulette, Sevens Wild, Super 21 and War

The list was changed today. Do you think everyone responding to the thread thus far just happened to miss it? In the original post, I linked to Google's cache of their terms. If you click on that link, you will see what the terms looked like yesterday and on back.

I posted the cache because a CS rep told me they were going to clarify the terms, as I also mentioned in the OP.

 

[gaming_mouse]

You know what bud, this is a chicken sh-t beef if you ask me. I joined this group some time ago, and it was clear to me that video poker was NOT intended to be allowed for the bonus. If you looked at their terms as it was, and still chose to play DW for a bonus, I don't think you deserve any sympathy.

Did you read my entire post? How is it clear the video poker is excluded? Each game is listed separately, and "Deuces Wild" is not listed. I verified that Deuces Wild was allowed, and got a screenshot for a customer service rep. How is it chicksh*t of me to demand that the casino stick to their own terms?

You say it was clear to you that VP was not allowed? Why? Do you have any reasoning to support that conclusion? If video poker was not allowed, why wouldn't the excluded games state, "No form of video poker is allowed."

This is a clear cut case of a casino going back on its own terms.

 

[truevogue]

You should get the terms u signed up under, I c your point. I am beginning to think a lot of people here own casinos.