Accredited casino- has anyone else had this problem

[colly]

Have had an account at this accredited and respected casino for a long time but only started reusing it about a month ago. have had several cashouts since then with no problems. yesterday made a small deposit with cc (usually use neteller but his casino has a very good rep so felt safe), Cashed out a small amount and get an email asking for verification - pass port or Drivers license) as they say they couldn't confirm my age.

Sent colour image of Driver license (which has DOB photo id address and signature). A reply comes back saying they cannot verify from that could i send my passport and my Tax File Number.

Now the passport has less ID verification details than the Drivers license and the Tax File Number has none (and the Australian Taxation office by our Privacy laws wouldn't confirm any details even if the casino requested.I have pointed this out and asked for a response.

Have never come accross this in 10 years of online playing so bit concerned this is a phishing scam (especially as they had a link to enter details in). I note the cashin is no longer sitting in the reverseable section when I go to the casino. The casino support despite a usually very fast response time has not replied to two emails on the issue.

Anyone else had this experience?

Cheers

 

[Nifty29]

Total BS.

Never EVER give anyone your TFN unless they have a statutory right to request it...and as you said it is pointless anyway.

Considering the tough ID procedures employed by Neteller themselves, I'm surprised they would need to ask for anything once you had deposited and withdrawn via that method.

 

[colly]

True

This is why I thought it might be third party phishing scam-especially as this casino is very well liked and respected on this board- that and the lack of any response from support since my refusal to send passports or TFN seems totally out of character for this casino.

I pointed out the illegality of the TFN request and the applicable laws in my return email to them.

Cheers

 

[maxd]

@colly: I'm thinking this is a little extraordinary. If you want I'll happily handle a PAB for you on this. At least that way we might gain some insight into WTF is going on.

 

[colly]

Thanks Max,

I have sent you a PM with the details and will take your advice if you think a PAB should be lodged

Regards
Colly

 

[mattsgame]

Have had an account at this accredited and respected casino for a long time but only started reusing it about a month ago. have had several cashouts since then with no problems. yesterday made a small deposit with cc (usually use neteller but his casino has a very good rep so felt safe), Cashed out a small amount and get an email asking for verification - pass port or Drivers license) as they say they couldn't confirm my age.

Sent colour image of Driver license (which has DOB photo id address and signature). A reply comes back saying they cannot verify from that could i send my passport and my Tax File Number.

Now the passport has less ID verification details than the Drivers license and the Tax File Number has none (and the Australian Taxation office by our Privacy laws wouldn't confirm any details even if the casino requested.I have pointed this out and asked for a response.

Have never come accross this in 10 years of online playing so bit concerned this is a phishing scam (especially as they had a link to enter details in). I note the cashin is no longer sitting in the reverseable section when I go to the casino. The casino support despite a usually very fast response time has not replied to two emails on the issue.

Anyone else had this experience?

Cheers

Just want to add, I verified my account at 32Red with my TFN via live chat I didn't think anything of it at the time, should i be concerned

This is the only casino who has ever requested this information however.

 

[maxd]

I have sent you a PM with the details and will take your advice if you think a PAB should be lodged

Got it, let's do it!

Just want to add, I verified my account at 32Red with my TFN via live chat I didn't think anything of it at the time, should i be concerned ....

No, no cause for concern. Dealing with 32Red is as safe as it gets. When I have a chance I'll ask them about this TFN business.

 

[colly]

There is a strict limitation in the TFN and privacy laws for Australia as to who can validly request a TFN- as payments from a casino to Australian residents are not subject to withholding , NRWT or PAYE PAYG tax, requests for quotation of a TFN are invalid- and a TFN does not identify the taxpayer in any way to the casino and cannot be confirmed by the issuer- the ATO.

While this casino may indeed be safe it is unnecessary and if it did go astray- as a primary document your TFN is the last piece of documentation in a set for a full ID theft

Cheers
Colly

 

[same_old]

Got it, let's do it!



No, no cause for concern. Dealing with 32Red is as safe as it gets. When I have a chance I'll ask them about this TFN business.

It could well be they are using the new services they have for the Aussie person.

There is a company called Edentiti (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) who are an aussie based company and you can verfiy yourself online via your TFN, drivers licence and or Medicare card, as well as a few others.

it only takes minutes and once done the client is good to go so they may have taken this onbaord????

 

[colly]

Same old

Don't know but the point is it is a breach of privacy that adds nothing and it is a casino requesting- (yes I have a bugbear about rights and I was a victim of ID theft some years back so will not provided douments unless there is a valid reason), In addition if it is the case you are talking about I am not happy to use a third party to confirm these documents nor am I happy for it and a request by a casino to sit on a database

Drivers licence confirms all the ID the casino needs and I note I have cashed out at this casino for larger amounts before with no problems.

Cheers

 

[maxd]

Ok, just to be clear here, the purpose of the PAB is to investigate this matter to (a) verify that this request is genuine VS some phishing thing and (b) that the requested info is in fact necessary.

In other words the PAB is to ensure that you are being dealt with by legitimate people with a valid request. I empathize with your identity theft experience but the PAB most certainly will not be used as a witch-hunt against casino documents policies. If that is your real complaint, a protest against what they are doing, then that's far beyond the scope of the PAB process.

I just want to be clear about this because it's sounding like this started as one thing but is maybe morphing into something else.

 

[same_old]

Same old

Don't know but the point is it is a breach of privacy that adds nothing and it is a casino requesting- (yes I have a bugbear about rights and I was a victim of ID theft some years back so will not provided douments unless there is a valid reason), In addition if it is the case you are talking about I am not happy to use a third party to confirm these documents nor am I happy for it and a request by a casino to sit on a database

Drivers licence confirms all the ID the casino needs and I note I have cashed out at this casino for larger amounts before with no problems.

Cheers

No No, I completly agree with you on that one, noway will anyone get my TFN unless they are from the ATO or someone like them.

I work in the online gambling field myself in AUS and I know of a few agencies such as Centrebet,sportsbet etc who use this service so it IS legit but still not something you would want to be sharing.

Just trying to help make heads or tails of it for you.

 

[colly]

Ok, just to be clear here, the purpose of the PAB is to investigate this matter to (a) verify that this request is genuine VS some phishing thing and (b) that the requested info is in fact necessary.

In other words the PAB is to ensure that you are being dealt with by legitimate people with a valid request. I empathize with your identity theft experience but the PAB most certainly will not be used as a witch-hunt against casino documents policies. If that is your real complaint, a protest against what they are doing, then that's far beyond the scope of the PAB process.

I just want to be clear about this because it's sounding like this started as one thing but is maybe morphing into something else.

Not the intention Max your original assumption is correct- the other emails are merely a response to the other posters comments,

Tax law is my field of specialty so I guess I was pointing out what TFN law and quotation requirements are about.

Sorry if it came accross the wrong way.
:notworthy

Cheers

 

[maxd]

No worries, we're good.

 

[colly]

As a final note on this the casino has now accepted my original offer of a utility bill to go with the drivers license originally sent so no longer requiring TFNs or passports.

Max I have PM'd you on this

cheers
clly

 

[vinylweatherman]

It could well be they are using the new services they have for the Aussie person.

There is a company called Edentiti (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) who are an aussie based company and you can verfiy yourself online via your TFN, drivers licence and or Medicare card, as well as a few others.

it only takes minutes and once done the client is good to go so they may have taken this onbaord????

This may be a case of one government department saying one thing, and another taking a different line.

If the Australian privacy laws prevent the government department responsible for taxes from responding to a verification of a TFN from an anauthorised body, how on earth does this "Edentiti" company make any use of it?

There is a more general principle that only that information that is "necessary" to provide a service, or validate a person, may be made a requirement for providing that service. Companies may NOT simply ask for as much information as it wants "just for the hell of it".

Maybe Edentiti have received an authorisation that allows them to handle, store, and process the TFNs of Australians, but no-one thought to update the laws and advice given to the taxpayers.

Edentiti could be breaking the law if it does NOT have such an authorisation, and there is cause to inform the Australian tax office of companies that seem to be demanding information they are not entitled BY LAW to request or receive.

The EU had a similar problem with Passports. Many hotels and hire firms were demanding to hold customers' passports as a "deposit" or other form of security. They were actually acting ILLEGALLY, despite this being a widespread practice. Eventually, it was found that SOME of these places were selling on copies of the passports they had demanded, and they were being used to create false entry documents, used for human trafficing, and in one notable case, a state sponsored assassination. Now, the authorities have mounted a "crack down" on this practice.

There is therefore the danger that if casinos "get careless" in their handling of our documents, a similar crack down will ocurr, and they will suddenly find their current procedures unavailable to them by LAW, and with nothing ready to replace them.


It is NOT actually illegal for a citizen to hand over a passport or a copy of it if they so wish, and it is often more convenient to do this. What IS illegal is to DEMAND it unless you have authorisation from the government. Saying you will hold onto someone's money or goods unless they hand over their passport is deemed as demanding it, and could be illegal unless it can be shown to be the ONLY method available to comply with the law, and the data is handled with the strictest security by a named "data controller".

Pity the UK government can't seem to obey it's own laws in this respect

 

[colly]

The laws have not changed- (I am a tax lawyer)- anyone including a vet can request a TFN as well as info on what you had for breakfast ,but cannot compell it and there are retrictions on who can collect, store TFN's and how they can be used.

AN authorised investment body, deposit taking institution, super fund or trustee can request a TFN as can certain other gov't agencies like centrelink however the ATO will only advise a negative confirmation to such authorised bodies if the wrong TFN is given so no use as an ID .

Cheers
Colly

 

[same_old]

The laws have not changed- (I am a tax lawyer)- anyone including a vet can request a TFN as well as info on what you had for breakfast ,but cannot compell it and there are retrictions on who can collect, store TFN's and how they can be used.

AN authorised investment body, deposit taking institution, super fund or trustee can request a TFN as can certain other gov't agencies like centrelink however the ATO will only advise a negative confirmation to such authorised bodies if the wrong TFN is given so no use as an ID .

Cheers
Colly

LOL- your a tax lawyer huh- how the hell do I get all my supers rolled into one. Over the years I have had a few jobs and im sure there is a few $k still out there somewhere.

 

[Nifty29]

LOL- your a tax lawyer huh- how the hell do I get all my supers rolled into one. Over the years I have had a few jobs and im sure there is a few $k still out there somewhere.

Just decide which one you want to rollover into, and get them to send you some transfer forms. All you need is your account number from the other funds and they do the rest.

If you aren't sure where some of your money is try using Supertrace.

Or you could pay colly $150 per hour to do it for ya lol

 

[colly]

LOL- your a tax lawyer huh- how the hell do I get all my supers rolled into one. Over the years I have had a few jobs and im sure there is a few $k still out there somewhere.

Do a lost super search by your name (it is free) on ATO website. This will list all your dormant accounts. If the acct has been dormant for over 7yrs then it would have been transferred to ATO regulated fund otherwise it will still be in your original funds (the search will show both)

Nifty is then correct- fill in the form (available on any super or the APRA website, or your existing fund can provide) for each fund to rollover to your chosen fund- apart from the form some funds will also require you to send certified ID documents.

No charge (LOL)

Cheers Colly

 

[vinylweatherman]

The laws have not changed- (I am a tax lawyer)- anyone including a vet can request a TFN as well as info on what you had for breakfast ,but cannot compell it and there are retrictions on who can collect, store TFN's and how they can be used.

AN authorised investment body, deposit taking institution, super fund or trustee can request a TFN as can certain other gov't agencies like centrelink however the ATO will only advise a negative confirmation to such authorised bodies if the wrong TFN is given so no use as an ID .

Cheers
Colly

Maybe when the casino asks for the TFN, they forward it to a third party verification company (like many, if not most, online casinos). This third party, if not itself authorised, uses an authorised body to do the verification.

They are not JUST using the TFN, so a negative confirmation of a wrong TFN IS of some use, and would question the honesty of other information given by the player.

Although casinos don't compel the player to give this information, telling them they won't receive a penny of their money until they DO is as good as "compelling" them.

 

[colly]

Sending to third party without your knowledge would be a definite no no and the negative confirmation advice is not instant takes up to 2 weeks so still really no use as an ID.

Where it could pssibly be used is via a matching process where a third party provider (such as a credit agency) has other details, eg emplyer and credit bank details, which may conflict but once again use in this manner without consent and a third party is a no no.

TFN should not be confused with ABN's or GST registration numbers which can be confirmed and accessed on public record through ABR.

Cheers
Colly